How'd you get through this? With difficulty. And when it was just too much to take, I tried to convince myself the separation was for the best, blah blah. Eventually detached and dated. BUT I was always willing to be there for H when he wanted to talk, do something together, whatever. Well, I can honestly say the more days the chemicals drip out of my system the less motivated I am. I'd like to have more answers before the "having back." What answers?! She F-ed you over. So did my H. You either work through it and move on or you don't. As for "chemicals", I don't think I have had "chemicals" for H in a loooong time. That is not love, that's infatuation. But you already know all this. Don't base a major life decision on chemicals. It's great that you are "in love" with her but, as you have found out on her end , they fade. Now I always view M's without kids a little differently. I have stated before on this board that I may not have gotten back together with H if it wasn't for the kids, but who the heck knows. I love H. He is a great friend. Lots in common. etc. I would want someone like that in my life for sure. He's a good guy. Despite his "brain fog" there for a while. So I guess, similar to what BF was stating, if you think you may want kids, can you see yourself having them in the future with this woman? If the answer is no, keep on truckin. If you're still not sure, that makes total sense too. That's completely your choice, really no right or wrong answers. I stopped responding in kind after hearing the "cordiality." Say if my name were always Bob and suddenly she's calling me "Robert." WTF? Don't act like I'm some d!ck off the street please. Ack! I know. We have ALWAYS called each other "sweetie." Always sounded weird to use our "real" names. During the separation, it freaked me out when he called me C_______. Bizarro land. So formal. I just did the same back and could tell he didn't like it. Oh well. Tough noogies. Mirroring his responses. Giving him a taste of his own medicine. Stop all the chasing. Never works. BUT, still maintain the contact like I said. If she emails, email right back. That sort of stuff. Does she EVER ask to see you, talk about personal issues, that sort of stuff? What is the status of this separation? Legal? Talk of divorce? H never once initiated the legal separation ( I did that for my own self-protection) and certainly never talked of divorce. I figured that was a positive sign. I get the sense she isn't itching to make this official either?
And I stand by my LUCKY comments. Everyone could use a good dose of self-esteem building now and then. Keep it up Stigmata. You're putting lots of effort into this whole mess and I commend you for it. Stay strong, strange bird.
I am so sorry that valentines day was a unnerving day for you. Understandable as it is the overplayed love day it has been made into. But I think it is wonderful that you allowed yourself to go with your feelings rather then stuff them. I was alone on Vday and it was by far the best I have had in years. To not feel pulled and guilty and lacking was a awesome relief.
I grieved. first time in my life. even as a child I thought grief was a illogical emotion and a waste of time. Never allowed it in myself, even with the death of close family members.
Did you write that or did I?
I have so many long term plans that were- in process -that are simply not possible anymore.
You mean are not possible at this time in your life. Since when did you give the power of eternity to your ex? Since when does Blackfoot give ownership to himself to another?
I will never relinquish responsibility for sabotaging my marriage for reasons known? but not yet felt.
Not yet felt hmmm I could go into a long tirade over why you think you have not felt it as of yet. But you already know that you want to feel guilt over a sin that is not yours to grieve. Funny how we can understand and not be willing to except what we know.
so this place is good for me and because of that ya'll are stuck with me and my Un PC be a man rantings, still.
Stuck is not the word Mister. We are honored (sorry speaking for the masses). You are a awesome source of information and insight and help put things in perspective for some of us. We would be stuck with your lose if you choice to leave us.
Well since I just returned yesterday I guess I need to start catching up on the boards and the housework so off I go.
Darnnit BF, didn't you see that "hypothetically" at the beginning of the question?!
guess I missed that. chuckle.
but you are somewhat on to me. And I am very uncomfortable sharing that of course.
big shocker. you need a new thread.
I feel quite guilty because sometimes I don't feel that attracted to H. Were you attracted to him when he was on his way out the door? What attributes about your H do you really like?
I do love him and I have newfound respect for him after the progress he/we have made the past 6 months or so. <applause> is your ML frequency satisfactory? What would be satisfactory? are you still avoiding conflict too? Do you reinforce positive interactions? But I am troubled by what OG_Lou said about brother/sister love. Not helpful. ignore it. stop dwelling on it.
Sometimes I feel like H and I could be like that Best of friends. Wow. Thats really awesome. I really really miss that. On a more helpful note its not all that good for attraction. You need to have interests that bring something new to the M. So does he. Do you guys hang out with other M couples? I know your in domestic He!! and are bored and restless. You wanted kids so deal with it. Quit reading star. What physical activities do you engage in together? Do you go exploring and engage in new activities together? Never stop having new experiences with each other.
So much in common, maybe too much. Yeah. Sure. Your so much alike. Your both really emotional and oversexed come to mind right off the bat.
It has always been that way and I think that is why we were drawn to each other in the first place at 21/22 years of age. Yikes. we were babies So what? most marriages started at 14/15 for millenia. So you changed? That was part of the given when you got married I thought.
The sexual desire/tension/attraction was never central to our R and I feel that so much more as the years slip by. Lucky you. My R was --on her side of it. Look where I am. the next tension/desire maker came along and poof, it was all for naught. Because you know--- obviously we werent 'meant to be'. Cause its inconceivable that you will ever have emotional reactions to another human while going thru this life. Pfff. Whatever.
So I struggle. Is this going to be enough? Yes it is a struggle. we wouldnt need to say vows if it wasnt. Kinda of like soldiers take vows and practice and train so they dont run away when the bullets start whistling bye. So, I dont know, is it enough? seems that was a decision you made on your wedding day. or maybe not.
Is it simply about CHOICE as you were stating to haphazard. When things are good? No its not about choice. Its great when things are good. Thats not going to be all the time though. When its bad, sometimes sh!tty, then yeah its about choice.
You make the choice to be faithful and live the M. But as you have seen, women are soooo emotional and I'm at the far end of the spectrum You dont say. hmmm Ill have to keep that in mind. Actually I have a lot more to say about that and the divorce rate and feminism, but its not going to change the reality I have to live with. So Ill deal with it.
Don't think very logically at times and I can see myself being sucked into dangerous situations in my weaker moments. Make a plan for what you will do, how you will react, what steps you will take during those weaker moments. Or know what they are and remove them. Otherwise your just a horse caught in the flames with no blinders on.
I'm feeling quite strong lately but I have a lifetime ahead of me. Should I simple not worry about "possibilites" and carry on as usual? Im a big fan of planning, prevention and practice. leaves me free to be reactive in other ways. Didnt plan or practice for adultery though. Ive had the trial by fire now. Hopefully I got it. We will see.
Or should I be doing something proactive to fight it? And what? Good question. I gave you some ideas for this before. remember? Let me know if you need a reminder. They work for me, but I am a man. Maybe they dont for women. Can I increase my attraction to H? I was able to with my x. and it was seriously gone there on a couple of occasions.
You yourself said attraction is not a choice. True, its a reaction. if you know what the reaction is from you can focus on those things. At least as a guy I can. Maybe this is a difference in men and women. Im curious. besides you have a interest in being self actualized. The fact that I can choose not to act on it is not the problem/issue.
The issue is the level of attraction I am feeling for H most of the time. clarify.
Hi BF Thanks for taking the time to respond to my "attraction" post. I am sort of ignoring it now because I'm not sure I should be going down this road. Don't be offended but I'm not going to get into the details of my attraction to H. That is too personal even to share on this board. Go figure. I am certainly interested in this: Or should I be doing something proactive to fight it? And what? Good question. I gave you some ideas for this before. remember? Let me know if you need a reminder. Yes I do need a reminder. I want to be able to change my perception of this "attraction" problem. I don't want to dwell on the negative but I am sort of stuck on how to really see him as I WANT to see him, my H, my sexual partner, lover, etc. We are soooo stuck in friend mode even now, even with the improvement in our SL and communication. Just brought up the eyes open sex with om comment on GEL's thread. It would be so strange to do that with H. And not just on his end, but mine as well. It's so.....not intimate, as much as raw sex. In your face. That is just not us. And there in lies the rub. Even after all the drama we have been through the past year or two, I wonder about my expectations. I look at Chrome and his continual optimism and I go , wow, how does he do it? How does he stay so confident that things will get to "sexual bliss." I am just not in that mind frame at all right now. I'm not feeling bad about us either though. I feel like I am being realistic about what we can achieve together. And it is a lot! We are great parents, best friends, good partners, but the SL is not what I would choose. I need to keep those positives in mind and continue to work on improving the SL.
I'm curious....why would you say ("It would be so strange to do that with H. And not just on his end, but mine as well. It's so.....not intimate, as much as raw sex.") For me, it's completely the opposite....it's a most definite intimate connection.
Back when I was LD I would close my eyes to avoid looking at my XH and seeing that look of desire on his face.....I would close my eyes and detach. The one man in particular who helped to coax me out of my LD stage of life would constantly encourage me to look at him, look him in the eyes when he ML to me. It was very intimate....but a very hard thing for me to do at first. It's hard for me to explain but I felt vulnerable during sex, keeping my eyes closed helped to protect me.
This is hard for me to answer. I guess having recently experienced it with someone else, I must be associating it with OM (?) Not sure. Also, OM led in the bedroom for sure. So I was more comfortable doing it with him. He put me at ease to express that side of me. I am not as comfortable leading with H even though I usually have to. See the problem there. H will not lead like that. If he tries to lead, it comes off...forced (?). I can sense his uncomfortableness but still appreciate his effort. Part of me thinks until H becomes comfortable, I will not be comfortable. Thus, the SL continues to suffer. It's a Catch-22. I am not wanting to be the aggressive one in the bedroom. I am HD but I think I prefer to be submissive (most of the time to the man). Oh the feminists are going to hate me for that. But that is what turns me on. H is not like that at all. I've known this since day one so I am not blaming him. Simply stating facts. The part I've struggled with so much the past year and a half or so is that I knew in my heart H was a good person, friend, person in general. I couldn't really ask for a better father for my kids. He is a NICE person and I mean that int he best way. So when he up and left, WOW. Turned everything I believed in on its head. I was lost for a while. I must have been telling myself through the years that the SL was not a big deal because he made up for it in so many other ways. Well all that flew out the window when he left. WTF? It took all of my strength to get back to this place of seeing him as the H I love and want to be with. But there is a part of me that thinks, what if it happens again? What if I give myself to him even more this time and he up and leaves? Maybe that is why I am feeling reluctant to lead in the bedroom. Be so intimate, raw, vulnerable. Also why I am so amazed by you GEL after what you have been going through. I don't trust myself or him enough at times to fully dive back into this M. I need to take baby steps I guess. We are working on it and things have been improving but I know us. It's going to be a long difficult road.
I guess having recently experienced it with someone else, I must be associating it with OM (?) Not sure.
We seem to be in a simular place on this one. Sometimes I wonder if the reason I cannot be content with my H is because of what I had with other man that makes my M seem lacking something. With me it was not in the line of sex it was in the line of friendship and common interest and just a general feeling of completion. Now that I don't have that again in my life I find myself in a place harder to except it.
And Gel
As always I must have different perception of your situation then others. I keep seeing it read like others are thinking you are trying to play into your H's fantasies and create a home bound fantasy life. But what I see is through it all you have held back on some of your own sexuality in the past. And now while you and your H are going through this growth of exceptance you are barr none holding little back. I see this is a releasing and exceptance point not just for your husband but for yourself also. Both of you have been freed up to be who you are. But again this is just my opinion and gosh knows I have been wronge in the past.
Thanks for trying to explain it to me. For me though, it just illustrates just how intimate eye contact is during ML. Neither of you are willing/able (whichever it is) to do that right now....so you (either of you) aren't exposing yourself to the other completely.
This is the main reason I bring my H's focus back to me if I notice him closing his eyes....or looking around the room. It's not an easy thing to do, as you yourself said, but if he can become comfortable with eye contact during sex....I truly do feel he will have a greater liklihood of opening up in other ways sexually....and emotionally.
My H has admitted to me that he has emotions tied to sex, just as I do....but closing your eyes and not truly engaging your partner allows you to detach and fantasize. In the past my H would do that....he wouldn't look at me, he would close his eyes. Back when I was LD and my XH would ask me to open my eyes....I would say "but this helps me enjoy it more"....that was the biggest load of bull. It just allowed me to get through what was happening without risking any real contact emotionally.
I know you don't want to be the aggressive one in the bedroom....heck I don't either! But the only way my H is going to learn that what he has in his mind is ok is for me to teach him that it is....and that means I do have to be the aggressor....but I do tell him, this is not a role I want, and I am only willing to take this role to help him get through this phase. He is going to have to step up and start taking charge too.
Take last night for example....I wasn't going to give him a BJ until he told me that yes, he wanted one. Telling me "I'd have to be an idiot to turn that down." was a non-committal answer....I wasn't going to accept it. It is also a way of teaching/training him to start saying what he wants.
I know you and I aren't the same person, we see things differently. For me though, even though I've been horribly hurt, as have you....it's a decision to really work on my M and save it that has me doing what I am. Sometimes LFL, baby steps don't cut it, baby steps can be an excuse to not really do the work. My H kept baby stepping his way through our issues....low and behold, he wasn't addressing them at all.
You two are making some small improvements, and that's great...but what might happen if you just jumped in full force and really rattled his cage like I am? Seriously. I mean...last night when I finished with my H I told him "you could have been having this for years."....but we wouldn't be doing this now if I didn't take the risk....and it is a risk. It's kind of up to you as to how long you want to baby step I guess. Personally, I'm fed up with baby steps.
You are spot on in your take on my situation. I'm not trying to be what my H has been looking at or fantasizing about....I'm letting the real GEL out completely. That just happens to mean that yes, I also have that side sexually to me that that my H has been primarily viewing on the internet.
What he's seeing is GEL, not someone I'm trying to be for his sake.
And that is exactly why I think it will work. When one is allowed to be who they are they are so much happier then when one is trying to be someone else.
, they fade. 
What physical activities do you engage in together? Do you go exploring and engage in new activities together? Never stop having new experiences with each other. 