Pennies in the Fountain of Serenity

[hopefloats7]

I copied RB's post from my locked thread so that I could reply to it here:

Hope, I may be in the minority here, but I would say that you don't need to get a D right now if you don't want to. Knowing how strongly you still love your H, I would tell you that maybe you should simply get a legal separation, with a division of assets and a financial settlement. At that point, you can truly remove him from your life for a while, which is what you need. He is only a source of pain for you right now, and you need time and space to heal. With all the financial stuff done, getting a D then becomes very simple when you want it to happen.

On the other hand, it sometimes happens that the process of working with lawyers and dividing assets is the thing that brings a wayward spouse to his senses. He sees the future that's ahead of him and decides he doesn't want it. Or after the separation, he decides that he misses you and wants you back. I don't want you to get your hopes up at all, but I don't think there's anything wrong with giving your H every chance to reform. You will at least have the peace of knowing that you did everything you could.

So that's what I would do if I were you. Of course, this advice is probably worth what you paid for it.

RB,
Please don't discount your advice. That is actually a very good idea. I hadn't thought about it. I guess what you mean is we would go through all the dividing up of what we own together, etc. just as if we were getting a divorce, and we'd work out the finances in the same way...we just wouldn't actually be getting divorced, only separated. We could still sell the house, I could still move, and we could get out of limbo. Maybe that would be what we need.

After a year, if H. still hasn't changed his mind, then we could just divorce, which would probably be easier as you said, since everything would already be split up and accounted for. But if he decided that he wanted to get back together, it would force a completely fresh start, which is also what we would need. I am starting to think that although I love our house, it is probably impossible to expect H. to ever live with me here again because of all of the lying he did to me while he was living here. It must make him feel very uncomfortable when he comes over, remembering everything he did when he lived here.

I think this is an excellent idea and I might suggest this to him. I think he is just as lost as I am in regards as to what to do about our situation. I thank you so much for posting this.

Incidentally, he has not called me or stopped by yet today. I wonder if he is putting it off, because he's afraid to face this? It seems if he really wanted to discuss what we were going to do in regards to separating/divorcing, he'd be over here talking about it. I have not called him to see if he's coming over; not sure if I ought to.

RB, as you said, your idea would give me the peace of mind in knowing I have tried everything. If we ever do have this talk (and I sure hope so; I need the truth) then I might suggest this and see how he feels about it.

RB, thank you very much.

[hopefloats7]

H. and I spoke.
The truth is that he is not o.w.'s little girl's father. He is, however, very much a part of her life and she is very attached to him because she does not know her own father. He feels the same about her. o.w. was pregnant but miscarried a while back. Up until that point they were planning to move in together; he didn't really feel comfortable with the sudden commitment he was undertaking but he said given the circumstances, he felt like he needed to go with it. Now that things have changed between them, he is not sure if he still wants to live with her, and he doesn't know what to do about the relationship he has formed with this little girl.
I told H. that I knew deep down inside we both still love each other very much. He did not deny this. I told him that I did not expect him to pretend that all of this did not happen; that it is part of his life and part of mine, and that I still felt we could work through it. He said that he still talks to the little girl on the phone; that they did a lot of things together and he is attached to her, but ultimately he wants his own children and getting involved with women that have kids is very complicated if the relationship doesn't work out.
He said that he agreed to the things that I had been guessing before because he was hoping I would give up and move on; that he felt he could not come back here and be with me and be reminded of what he did. I told him I completely understood why he felt that way. For once he was not saying things like, I don't love you that way, etc. He was making it seem more about his guilt.
I told him that I accept what has happened while we have been separated as a part of both of our lives and that it should not be something that we can't talk about. He said that he can't just stop contact with the little girl because she is innocent in all of this and she doesn't fully understand. I told him that I agreed with this and I wouldn't expect that. But, eventually she needs the truth explained to her so that she realizes he is not really her father. He agreed with me. I don't know where this is leaving us right now. We did not discuss anything about a D. or separation; he had to go and I think he wanted time to think. Since this afternoon he already called me to say hi once, and he said he'd talk to me in a little while.
I don't know why but I actually feel much better. It isn't that I think we can work things out for certain, but I feel that perhaps I have a much better understanding of the truth. It makes sense now, why he would talk to me months ago about her and say very unflattering things, and yet go back to her again.
He is not actually seeing someone else right now, either. Again, he was telling me these things because he said that he hoped I would give up (and make the decision for him).
I hope I have the stamina it might take to endure this for a little while longer. I don't know what he is going to decide to do from here. He said he didn't really think that he wanted to move in with o.w. now that things had changed. I have made it this far. I hope that whatever becomes of this, that I will be ok either way. I still love my H. and I understand that we have both been through a lot. I really tried to be accepting of all of this so that he could see he does not feel that he has to pretend it hasn't happened.

[lmdi99]

Hope-
Glad to hear that you are feeling a bit better and that you were able to have a positive conversation with your H. I am sure you are feeling relieved after hearing the truth about things...i know that i would.

As for RB's suggestion...i agree that it could be a good thing. As you know, my H and I are in a similar sitch...we have our agreement, separating everything. And i will say that after we signed it, things b/w him and i did get better...much less tense. I think it just took pressure off of both of us...perhaps it will have the same effect on you and your H.

I do believe that you need to do what you want to do, what you feel is best for you. It is okay to take it one step at a time (having the agreement, selling the house, etc.). There is no reason, in my opinion, to rush into things. You didn't marry overnight...you don't need to D overnight either.

Anyway, i hope that you have a restful night. And i hope you enjoy your vacation next week...you deserve it.

[lmdi99]

because she does not know her own father.

So, wait, is ow's H/exH not this little girl's father? Or is he, and he has just not been around? Gee, if there is another man that could possibly be her father, i would say that ow certainly got around 4 years ago.

[RBinBR]

Hope, I'm glad you found my idea useful. I almost did a legal separation with my W, but I ultimately decided that it wasn't necessary for now because we were able to agree on visitation with my D, and our financial sitch isn't very complicated.

A legal separation usually works the same way as a divorce in terms of lawyers and courts and such -- you should ask your attorney.

It's good to hear that you got some piece of mind from understanding more of the truth.

[hopefloats7]

Imdi,
The way I understand it is that o.w. is separated from her H. and he has no contact w/the child. I do not know why; H. has said in the past that he wants his wife (ow) back, so why no visitation w/child? I really have no idea.
I also am very suspect over this supposed pregnancy last year. The timing of it and now the supposed miscarriage...I don't know what kind of proof H. has of any of this even being true. He did not talk about it in detail with me. After all the trust issues he's had with o.w., even if she had been pregnant I wonder if it was really his. There is just no way for me to know all these things, and it's very complicated and upsetting. I think H. bought into her story because of his feelings for her, and I am sure she saw that she could take advantage of that. I hope he does not move in with her. I will be very upset. He would be taking things from our home to move to an apt. with her and that bothers me a lot, too. Not that I'm saying he would be unfairly removing things from the house; I know he would only take what we agree upon, but still...things from our home and our life, to set up with someone else. And I cannot see how it could possibly work out between them, but maybe that's just me.
I don't know what he plans to do from here. He had indicated to me that he had second thoughts about moving in with her, but that doesn't mean he won't. And he's still giving the impression that way too much has happened now for him to try to be with me again. I remember trying to tell him that I knew I could move past this and he said, "Yes, I know...but you're not me."
So the problem is that HE can't move past this.

[ACJ]

Hope,
I'm so glad you are feeling more positive. It gives me hope that one day I might be doing just the same. You mentioned that your H want his own children. Maybe that is why he says he can't get passed this, maybe he wanted this child to be his so that he would've acheived what he wanted. I'm really glad for you that she isn't but as someone who already has three children and would've liked a 4th I can understand to a point why your H would be so affected by this. Perhaps one of the issues he needs to work out for himself is whether he can live his life without his own children. If he is going through a MLC perhaps he is wondering what will happen if he does not leave a legacy in the form of a blood line. I'm not advocating that what he is doing is right b/c it isn't. I'm just trying to highlight that perhaps there might be deeper seated issues to this that need to be explored before he can begin to join you in healing your M. I wish you all the luck in the world.

[hopefloats7]

I don't know what to say in regards to what H. is feeling about children. I do not think he planned for o.w. to get pregnant, but once she did and he got to know her other child so well he bonded very much with the whole situation which I can understand, although it is painful.
He says now that she is not, the circumstances are different and that he isn't sure what he is going to do in regards to their R. I think he wants to have his own kids someday, yes, but I don't necessarily think he means right now.

I called him and left a vm today. He returned my call about an hour ago. He was at the house he lives at and I could hear the little girl in the background. He asked me if things were ok; I said yes, and asked who that was. He told me; I asked if he was babysitting and he said no. I told him I was surprised that he would call me while he has company. He said that he noticed I'd called a few times and wanted to be sure everything here was ok. I told him it was.
I told him that we have a lot to talk about. He said he agreed. I asked him to come over tomorrow; he said he couldn't. (He is off though, but must already have plans). I said, "I thought you told me that your R. with her had ended." He said, "Not yet." I said, "Well, you had told me that she broke things off with you." He said, "Well, that's not entirely the truth."

I had reached my breaking point. I told him that I loved him and I wanted him to come home. I asked him if he was thinking about it, and he said, "Yes." Then he asked me if he could please call me back later on. I said, "Before you go I want you to be honest with me. Don't say that unless you mean it. Are you really thinking about coming back home?" He said, "Yes."
And he said he'd call later on.

WTH? I am honestly so confused right now. If he wants this to be over with so badly, then why does he continue to put off coming over to talk to me in person about what we are going to do? And if he's thinking about coming back, then why is o.w. with him today?

[ACJ]

Hope,
He is scared of hurting anyone else. I know that's hard on you but that is what is wrong with him. Have you visited Purdy's thread? It currently called Still needing help III and i think its under newcomers. She is 12 months down the line and is just starting to see the end of the tunnel. Read her thread it might help you to understand what your H is going through. I've spoken to Purdy on the phone and she is really nice and seems to have a cool head when it comes to DBing. Patience is still the watch word here.

[NYsurvivor]

He said that he noticed I'd called a few times
I told him that we have a lot to talk about
I told him that I loved him and I wanted him to come home.

Sounds like the same old pursuit cycle again...

I said, "I thought you told me that...
He said, "Well, that's not entirely the truth."

... pursuing someone who is not honest with you...

Are you really thinking about coming back home?" He said, "Yes."

... who one day adamantly and categorically states repeatedly he's not coming back, and then the next day gives you [false, I think] hope. I think it's false for two reasons. 1. "thinking" about coming back home doesn't mean he's leaning for it, it could just mean he's "thinking" on the topic, for and against it. Or, he could just be saying that to keep you from moving on, so that he still has his safety net that you were beginning to take away from him near the start of the year.

And 2. His actions speak much louder than his words, considering: "If he wants this to be over with so badly, then why does he continue to put off coming over to talk to me in person about what we are going to do? And if he's thinking about coming back, then why is o.w. with him today?" The answers to which may be, 1. You're making these conclusions that the "Ifs" should result in the "thens", in effect, expecting H to think as you do or expecting that life follows such a direct path 2. He's not really thinking about it as much as you are.

What I really wish to point to you Hope, is: Considering that H has not anywhere near worked on his issues and put them away, nor worked on how to overcome them when they arise again, yet, you want a relationship with him as he is now (or is it you seek a relationship with your vision of what he could be IF), to be very careful what you wish for.