I think I am lucky to have so much support on this board.
I think I've done the best I could with what I had at the time and that I can always do better.
I think I'm going to stop seeing all of the things I've learned here as tips, strategies, or tools, and instead see them as ways to make me a better person.
I think I'm going to do everything in my power to stay connected with my kids, even though I see my loss so clearly in their faces.
I think I'm going to do whatever I can to get back in the swing of things at work.
I think I'm going to try to take care of myself physically by eating right and exercising.
I think I am going to understand that the way my wife sees and treats me does not represent who I really am, but I am going to try to be sympathetic to the pain she feels. I will endavor to not do things confirm her worst feelings about me.
I think I'm going to stop catastrophizing and recognize that even if I "lost" everything, I'd still have me, and that's always been good enough.
I think I am going to work towards sincere acceptance. I don't like this, but the more I try to control it, the worse I ultimately feel.
Regarding the friend/wife distinction. I think I try to have very few expectations of friends, whereas I have always relied on my wife for countless things. I actually think this is a big part of her identity actually, being there for me and the kids. I suspect that this is her battle right now, sticking up for what she believes is best for her and fighting the sense that she is letting other people down.
I know that friendship is what brought us back together the first time and I want to find a way to nurture this without pursuing. For instance, I have an extremely large project due for work in about a month, my pre-tenure review actually, and this is the kind of thing that she would have loved to help me with. Now, I'm not sure if this transcends what I would expect of a friend and am not sure if I am just looking for a way to spend time together that is not in the dirct service of the R.
She's definitely in the polite, "Is there anything I can do to help?" mode right now, but I'm not sure if I should take her up on this. She could almost certainly be helpful, but am I crapping where I eat in trying to enlist her help with work stuff. Again, were we not headed towards separation, this is definitely the kind of thing she'd want to help me with.
Also, Didn't mean to say I was only looking for Nickel's input, rather I was curious what is up with her. She seemed to have a breakthrough last week after a rough patch. No news is good news, right?
Hey there...NICE list! Now, look at it EVERY day. I do the same thing, write a wonderful list, feel the high, and then forget everything the next day. Just recently, I've gotten into the habit to read through journals, goals, to see if I'm on track and remind myself of the enthusiasm and goals I wanted.
So, what concrete things will you do to achieve these? Baby steps? Like, eating healthy and exercising. Tackling the work project? Take this as an opportunity...you REALLY need all your focus now for your career...it's important and you worked so hard for this. You can't drop it...so, this is also a chance for you to focus on a part in your life where you can come out a raging success and use it as a HUGE esteem builder in all of this!
As far as treating her....sounds like she really thinks she needs her space and time from you. You have to honor her requests, I think. It shows respect, and it could be the TIME & SPACE from you she needs. Throw yourself into work. Keep in contact with her, as much as she will tolerate, and keep it friendly, share with her what you're doing at work. When she asks if you need help, is she just being polite, or does she mean it? I think a better reaction would be, share your projects, your enthusiasm for it, your drive to succeed in the project. This projects confidence and really IS confidence for you. If she asks if you need help...kindly tell her not at the moment, but you will ask if you do. THEN, take it as an opportunity to THANK her for being the person she was...VERY giving to being there for you and the kids...tell her you saw that, thank her for it, it meant a lot and got you to where you are now. Tell her you wish you could repay that help and support, and are happy now that she's taking time out for HER. Seeing her happy is most important to you, regardless of how the M turns out...she is still your friend. Tell her this--it's sincere and I think will mean a lot to her. Say it WITHOUT strings, expectation. Just sharing a thought to a friend. In fact, change the subject if you like right after.
You know, sometimes, the harder we TRY in the M, the more destructive it can be. The other person does not want you to be desperate. They want you to be calm, rational, to think for yourself and the M, to be willing to take a step back. To take time and make sincere and consistent efforts without pressure. When you TRY in the M and the other person is not ready, it's just pressure "Look, I'm trying to hard, please come back..." I'm not sure she's ready for you to need her quite yet...just share with her, be strong and confident, and really get away from your old needs of her. If she really thinks that she was not taking care of her and taking care of you and kids too much, then the best thing you can do is approach this work project by yourself and succeed. If she listens, always thank her for her support and tell her it means a lot, but don't burden her....
More later...you're doing great through this....so don't be hard on yourself. Just keeo the faith that if you give her time and space, and love her sincerely, things will change for the better, whatever the oucome. Hang in there....we;re here for you!
Wife chose to sleep in the guest room last night, didn't move her stuff yet, but am expecting that next.
I have been scary nice since we've been back from our trip, going out of my way to not engage in the push pull that would have characterized her distancing before. I'm actually trying to see her sleeping in the quest roon as a positive step as it gives me a chance to be nonreactive.
She really does seem like she is in pain, my previous attempts at reasoning with her or making her feel bad really did fuel her need to leave. Right now, I think she is bearing that burden alone, and it seems to sadden/anger/humiliate her. I think she'd be more comfortable if I were pressuring her right now, because she's not sure if I am really o.k. with things or just faking it to get her back. In our old dynamic, she'd have know exactly where I stood.
I am trying to be supportive without pressuring, just being nice, checking in like I would have in the past, acting like a friendly roomate at home, and making sure that I don't do anything consciously or unconsciously to make her feel bad for deciding to end the marriage.
This is really tough however, and I think both of us could really use a hug but won't initiate. I won't, because I need her to be in the drivers seat. She won't because she doesn't want to send mixed signals and doesn't want to get sucked back into the relationship. The tension is just so palpable however, as we very consciously get out of each others way both physically and emotionally.
I'm just trying to stay helpful and friendly, especially when it involves her distance, pretty much the opposite of what she expects.
It's just plain hard, and questions like, "How'd you sleep?" take on such meaning in this context. I'm really trying to take a long term perspective on this and to brace myself for what is to come. I miss her terribly and it hurts sometimes just to look at her.
I have just a few moments before the day get's hoppin' so let me get to it. I actually started posted last night, went to hit submit, but my flippin laptop ended up taking me back to the previous page. UGGH...post deleted. Damn!
So, here I am today. Sitting here, reeling from all this posting. I have a few things to consider abstractly, as I don't have my thoughts formulated on your wifes position yet. I will however tell you that I've been there. If you recall, I had TOLD my XH that I was willing to go to counseling, to give us a shot and I did for three months, but actually, now that I think about it, I know that I truly wasn't...I was setting him up to fail...it was my last technique to convince him I was right. I knew that no matter how much talking I did to convince him that we were better off being friends, that this relationship just doesn't work, the harder he worked to prove me wrong...so instead I took a different route...HE had to realize it. He had to believe HE failed. Got me? The "See, we tried this and it still doesn't work...you still think we can fix this?" So, I'll tell you that I didn't stop doing all the things of my "other life" because I knew at some point he was going to realize what I realized and that he'd let me go...which he did. So I'd say you're at a cruicial point, but I'm going to need a little more time to fully explore the emotions I was having at that exact time and determine what he could do. Once he gave me the go, I was full steam ahead - MINUS the actual paperwork and filing.
Okay, so I'm going to move on to you, because I think this is of utmost importance, and I've realized it over the last 6 months or so. When I turned the corner and my XH was no longer interested in a second shot essentially we've been referring to me as the LBS at that point. I didn't start doing these things until I was the LBS, so I'd highly recommend you try this. I was talking with Betsey a few days ago and realized that I hadn't been paying much attention to one of my most important goals I set for myself. I'd been doing really well on the rest of them, but there was one that I hadn't really spent the effort on. I know this is going to sound crazy and you're gonna wonder the point, but hang tight I'll get there.
See, one of my main goals was to get to know myself. Get to know my likes, my dislikes, my favorites, my never-in-a-million-years. However, my entire life I've always just been a go-with-the-flow. I pretty much like everything. I realized that I had been in a relationship for so long I forgot what it is that I LOVED. You know, that ever excited feeling you get about something you want so bad. I didn't have the small things. So, that takes me to this week. Monday I booked a flight for Europe that leaves this Saturday. Yes, you heard me...THIS Saturday. Sponteneity...not really my thing...as a matter of fact this kind of thing makes me so uncomfortable to just think about that I deemed it to be on my never-in-a-million-years list. However, I did it...cause how am I ever gonna know if I really like being spontaneous. I know that I'm "okay" being responsible and someone who thinks through things, but I've just defaulted there. We stick to what we know because it's comfortable, but where it's uncomfortable is where we'll truly find our likes and dislikes.
So, john, I say get out a pen and paper and make several lists. Make a list for the things you LOVE to do. Make a list of the things you've tried and genuinely don't like (not the stuff that just makes you uncomfortable). Make a list of the things that fall in between those (things that you like but don't have a favorite). Then lastly, make a list of the things you have thought about doing, but never did because they make you anxious or uncomfortable.
After you're done with that list, let me know...cause we're gonna go through that list and pick some things for you to do. You, I think, need to rediscover WHO you are without your W or even the thought of your W.
The other thing I want to warn you against...is any effort to make plans. DO NOT under any circumstance try to make plans in advance with your W. One thing that drove me insane was that my XH, even after we had decided to work on our relationship, was that he was focused on the future. Everytime I heard him ask me about something even a week in advance it told me that he thought this was just a little blip on the screen. I wanted him to live day to day, working little by little, and if an event passes us by, it passes us by. I wanted him to make plans with me the day of, not the day before. I know it sounds contrary to the nature of me as the planner, but I did not want to plan anything with him because my feelings changed daily and I didn't want to be locked in...and I knew he wanted to lock me in for those exact reasons...HE wanted peace of mind. See what I'm sayin?
Okay, all for now, but I'll try to get back here later.
Nickel
"The walls we build around us to keep sadness out also keeps out the joy."
Thanks for stopping by. I've been there with the dropped posts. Very frustrating.
Re: my wife giving it a try. Yes, she feels now that she's given it a try for 8 months (even when we were actively separating or in a "cool off" mode) and the last 3 months I think she felt she was giving it her absolute best. She definitely believes that I could not and would not make the changes that she needed, and I agree with her on the fact that I never really healed about the OM and still felt like I was the martyr. Whats funny, is that I was always looking to her for the solution, I gave her the responsibility of making things right for me, and made her feel like she owed me for making the changes that I had.
All I can do right now is hang in there. I'll think about your lists, but frankly I'm so swamped with work stuff I really should just hanker down and get stuff done. I'm trying hard not to withdraw just yet. She and I moved to a strange city 4 years ago for my job, and frankly, neither of us has developed much of a support system outside of our marriage. She has many more social friends than I, but neither of us has a cry on the shoulder type of friend here, and I don't want her to feel totally alone right now. Even if its awkward between us, I think we both appreciate a "How was your day?". Plus, I think she expects me to become vindictive, so being friendly and upbeat keeps her guessing.
Good for you Nickel to take charge and do something you've always wanted to do, you deserve it. I will think about that list, but I'm not sure I'm there yet in terms of allowing myself to be selfish.
I don't know if I am trying to control the situation again, but I do feel tremendous sympathy for my wife right now. She really feels like she NEEDS to do this, no matter what the consequences are. Maybe I'm stupid for not wanting to make it hard on her, but it just seems easier to give in than to stick it to her right now. She knows I am not going to roll-over (that's part of what she dislikes about me right now) it's just not in my personality. Still. I'd love to find a way to distract myself while trying to be her friend and co-parent.
Having quite a time getting focused on other things and pulling away from W. Last night was weird in that she made a nice dinner for us and was very friendly, also packed leftovers into a lunch for me. She had also e-mailed me a couple of funny online links after we had a talk about staying friends no matter what.
Later, she wanted to watch one of our favorite shows that we hoped was on our DVR, no luck, so we just kind of scrapped it. We tried this in the bedroom, where she very conspicously sat in a chair rather than her side of the bed. It really is like she is trying to convince both of us that this is really happening.
Earlier she inadvertently started undressing in front of me (I high-tailed it out of there, was kind of freaked out actually) before exercising and we are definitely in that "getting along so well because we are splitting up" mode. She still hadn't moved her stuff out of our bathroon and bedroom, but I suspect that's next.
I really sense her struggle, but am trying to stay as far from it as I can. Yesterday on the phone she talked about how it was difficult to mourn the loss of the relationship and I said that I just hoped that we could be there as friends for each other.
I am getting better at not taking the bait when she pulls for me to try to take control (e.g. she wanted to go to "our" yoga class by herself, and I said no problem at all) but it still hurts like crazy to see her pull away. For instance, no calls today when we would typically talk several times by now. I know I need to get out of her way, but another part of me just wants to keep the positive interactions going and not feed into the awkwardness that she seems to be subconsciously pulling for while doing things like making my lunch (she almost never does this).
Mostly, I'm just trying to distract myself from calling her right now.
Why do I care so much about this?
How do I let go of the tension and just be me? I know I can't control this, but I also don't want to feed into this weirdness between us. She has typically responded well when I just come clean with her and express my concern and friendship despite our pending separation. I think I'm worried that she is looking for me to overreact and pull away and that by reciprocating the distance I am giving her this.
So, any tips for resisting the urge to break the tension by checking-in?
How do I balance distance, with warmth and support?
I think I feel better just having gotten this out.
Oh, BTW, I did a 180 yesterday and got my haircut. I usually am pretty lazy about this whereas my wife LOVES to get her hair done even when she doesn't need it and I frequently teased her in the past for buying the expensive "products" that the salons push. So, what did I do, I bought some very macho hair product myself and also stopped and got some moisturizer/aftershave. Very uncharacteristic for a guy who does not own a hairbrush or comb! She did seem a bit surprised. At least I'll smell good at the divorce proceedings!
Wife just initiated R talk with the premise that she needs a timetable for getting out of the marriage. It is just taking too much of a toll on her and she can't take it anymore. We havent really talked R in almost a week and I've been doing really, really good LRT.
This is killing me, I almost got sucked into defending myself (well I did a little) but definitely finished off on "Just tell me what you want/need in terms of separation and I'll try to make it happen." She's really torn up inside, but it mostly takes the form of being dissapointed that she can't do this anymore to herself.
I think I got saved by the kids' bedtime needs, but it really stung for her to so clearly articulate the need to leave when I had been doing such a bang up job of being non-reactive for the last 4 days. I tried to agree and take the blame for the end of the R, but the temptation to analyse was huge.
Is she testing me? Whats the right answer? She wants to know stuff like when we should tell the kids, should we sell the house right away, how often do I want to see them. I tried to just listen, but got very caught up in trying to agree and validate while explicitly saying that she was in control.
This blows, it's like there is no right answer, either I agree with her and help her plan for my departure. Or I go passive and just sigh alot. Or I risk falling back into old stuff by trying to show her that we can give it another shot.
Its funny, I've been doing such a good job of detaching, I wonder if she is calling my bluff.
I kind of lost it with a teary need for hugs etc. and then some push for clarification that went nowhere other than to confirm her need to get out and her fear that I'd stand in her way.
Where do these WAS get their strength? It really is like the more cleary they see the damage they do, the more quickly they run to the door.
I feel like I spent a week playing it cool only to be deflated at the first opportunity for an R talk.
