Oldtimer,

On my view, the underlying problem is not feminism, but emotional enmeshment that one is unwilling to take responsibility for. Having a W that does not subordinate her wishes to yours is (1) no reason to meet all her wishes (2) no reason to disregard your own wishes or needs

I think that is an excellent synopsis of this thread. So succinct but to the point! Much of what I had in mind is encompassed in your points #1 & 2.

(3) no reason to sacrifice your own identity (4) no reasons to insist that she sacrifice her identity so you don't have to -- for, you can simply change yourself to quit participating in an unealthy co-dependent malignantly enmeshed R.

Bringing 3 & 4 completes the circle nicely.

Sadly, society encourages women to lose themselves in an R. Feminism may well encourage women to maintain their own identities. But, that in itself is not a problem in an R that is healthy, but rather only in one in which there is a problem with ego integrity on one or both sides.

The only missing item I see that is central to so many families is that of the children. Responsibility and protectiveness over your kids makes it so much harder to break out of the enmeshment with your spouse.

I'm sure the owners of plantations had it much easier in terms of things going their way before slavery ended as well. That certain conditions make it easier for one's needs/wishes to be met is no justification for conditions that entail the oppression/subordination/lack of respect for others as persons of equal moral worth and dignity.

I see this applying to abuse of any type, be it direct physical abuse, emotional abuse, or abuse by withholding and withdrawing (a combination of the first two?)


Cobra