in the interest of equally calling out cruel and insensitive remarks...
know that your enlightenment, your methods, did nothing to salvage your marriage.
This was uncalled for Cobra.
You owe Corri an apology.
She had an long term philandering, ridgidly logical H who chose to never learn to meet her halfway and fill her emotionality. She was in MC for over a decade. It takes two.
You could learn a lot from Corri, she has tried extensively to help you, primarily because I believe you come off much as her ridgidly logical H. Attacking the W of a man who gave you a lot of help wasnt to logical either.
Stick to me attacking me bro, you can hit me anyway-- anywhere, you like. when I get done chuckling we will get back to learning about women.
Blackfoot is being kind. I had no intention of being kind to you. I am angry.
Let me put it this way.
You owe Corri a heart felt "come to Jesus" level apology.
If this forum were the real world, Cobra, I would have sent you home to mamma packing a busted lip and bleeding nose just so you could whine and give her a good reason to provide you with some "mama's boy" coddling.
How about you show the good people on this forum some real world humility; otherwise, why don't you take your Dr. Laura books back home and play 'pretend grownup' somewhere else.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I'm glad you said that NOPkins and saved me the trouble.
Cobra, you are a great addition to this community. You provide a different perspective on issues and have a sharp intellect. You and I started out on the wrong foot, but we got back on track pretty quickly.
But, I was reading this thread and getting more and more annoyed with how you escalated unnecessarily with MrsNOP. Then you threw that comment out to Corri and it frankly pissed me off. I was kinda hoping you would take BFs offer to apologize first and save me the trouble.
How could you possibly think that criticizing someone's R skills right at the time they are going through a D would ever be appropriate?
If you can't find it in your heart to see that was wrong and apologize, I'll have to say I am through talking to you. Not that you would necessarily be upset by that, but I cannot talk to anyone who would think doing something like that is ok. I guess that is a boundary for me.
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
All We always have to sprinkle our written words with sugar. Without tone inflections or facial expressions they tend to be taken negitively.
This is magnified due to the fact most of us are on a hair trigger due to the sitch and we are strangers.
If one is successful great glad to hear it. Be kind to us who are not. I have found it is tougher to be graceful when I am successful then when I am not. Keep in mind the Pride comes before the fall.
Now go in your corners the round is over.
Attention: Next Card is Dr. Phil and Tanya Harding! Tickets are at the counter and we take American Express.
"All I want is a weeks pay for a day's work" Steve Martin
I will apologize to you for my comment. I have not taken the time to think about your situation and all the work you put into your relationship. So my remark was in sensitive and I am sorry. That said, I stand by my comment that what you and others are preaching does not work.
One thing I did learn yesterday was to see under the veil of the NOPs. This is only my impression and I do not expect the NOPs to ever come clean on it, but I see what happen in their relationship as a strong willed, stubborn, career driven, self centered man who did not like the taste of his own work. When he turned to his wife to change their path, he realized the extent of her anger and resentment and had to do a lot of work to win her back.
He has the “large” voice and she has the “small” voice. This change is course would be no different that the wives of ZBube, HD or Balto suddenly waking up and deciding to make things right with their spouse. Once that happens, what is so difficult? Is it no wonder everyone else here is spinning their wheels? This “magical” model everyone is trying to implement is simply not applicable.
NOPkins,
As for you, I understand your need to flaunt your machismo in front of your woman. This is the first time you’ve made juvenile remarks like that. I suppose she responds to your strutting and it helps to make your bond stronger. But understand one thing old man, if you think you could ever give me a bloody nose you’ve got another thing coming. You better hit the gym really hard because I’d lay you out so fast you wouldn’t know what hit you. Go back to your porch swing.
Here's the thing, male strutting aside (I apologize to you if I came across that way). I personally think that everyone here can benefit in some way from what everyone else here is saying. I disagreed somewhat with thing you were saying and thing MrsNOP was saying, but I was learning a lot just by following the argument. I don't think it is ever useful to burn a bridge in haste. True, there are some people who have such negative voices that it would be better just to tune them out, but I don't get that from MrsNOP. You saw her nitpicking, everyone else (I think) saw her trying to deconstruct your argument in an attempt to get you to think about your position a little bit more.
I think the problem is that her tone is very direct (as is NOPkins', I guess that is the "mirroring" that BF talks about). When I first got here, she took that very direct tone with me, and in my immaturity I responded very emotionally as you did (not saying you are immature, just a similar response). Instead of taking what she gave me, a sincere attempt to help me as I now realize, I acted childish, and now she doesn't respond to me anymore. Now I am in a position to hear what she has to say, but I blew it earlier. I did the same thing with Corri (although I'm still not sure what I said there), so now two voices that could have had a lot to teach me are missing. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not crying in my pillow over this, sh!t happens and we move on. There are still plenty of other people here who give me great advice. But as you can see, I need all the help I can get to keep me moving forward, so the loss of any advice is a loss I feel. I don't want you to make that same mistake, although I fear you may already have.
Don't get me wrong Cobra, I like you man. Not in a Brokeback Mountain kinda way (LOL, sorry just a little levity), but I appreciate your intellect, you have said many things I needed to hear. I just think you need to watch what you say a little bit more, not because it is diminishing your feelings, but because (as was already said) it is so easy to misinterpret what others are saying to you in this impersonal forum, and while we are ALL hyped up a bit by our situations.
Peace
Chrome
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
I hear you and have heard what others have said in the past. I have tried to be more diplomatic in my responses. And I felt that I has tolerating MrsNOP’s digging for much longer than I cared. I had no intention of trying to defend a leaky, partially valid, simplistic theory. I stated this several times. And yet she insisted on trying to expose one “fallacy” after the other. WTF!? So at some point I got fed up. That’s me.
Perhaps she should take a look at why she is so insistent one everyone posting only pre-researched, proof tested thoughts. This is an open discussion board. Who has time for that? On page 8 of this thread I told her the following:
I do not know what your point is here. The things you are arguing over have little to nothing to do with my main thesis. If you don’t agree with me then fine. Say so and go start your own thread. Your persistent picking is starting to feel a lot like harassment to me and I don’t like it one bit. You do not own this board. It is a public forum and I can state my thoughts as I wish. Start your own thread with your own points of view but quit harassing me.
And yet she comes back pointing out some inconsistency in my argument as it applies to beach sex. I was not trying to be “fair” in my theme toward women. Never said that. This topic was meant to be one-sided, from a man’s point of view. If women saw the logic in what men want, there would not even have been a book written on this matter. So it goes without saying many women will disagree with Schlessinger. So what? There’s plenty of men bashing counselors out there whom I disagree with. They cater to the female audience. Schlessinger caters to the male audience, of which I am a part. MrsNOP is obviously in the female audience. So maybe she needs to learn to just leave it at that.
Everyone one would like to make this argument out as all my fault. I will accept my part, but my part only. MrsNOP, and Corri in her follow-up post, imply that they have the right to push as hard as they want, and until you tell them to stop, they should feel no reason to back-off.
As an analogy, remember the presidential election when Bush I was running? Dan Rather interviewed him on TV and was pushing hard on Iran Contra or something. I saw the interview and Rather was not impolite or discourteous. But he was persistent, would not let the topic drop even though Bush tried to move past it several times. The press practically hung Rather, saying he was disrespectful, which I believe he was. He knew full well he was pushing too hard and that Bush was agitated. But Rather had and agenda and was trying to expose something, which he never did.
I felt the same way on the later parts of this thread. May I, like Bush, should stand up and say stop it, you are pushing too hard and it is getting offensive to me. But I though I said that. And I also think people should be courteous enough to know when THEY are pushing too much.
Missed posting the last paragraph of my comments...
That is why I have a hard time buying ito Corri’s assertion that I am fully responsible for giving MrsNOP the “power” to keep “disagreeing” with me. I think this is rationalizing BS, but even if there were some truth to it somewhere, it does not justify MrsNOP pushing the use of that “power.”
I am glad that you found your way to apologize to Corri.
Quote: ---------------------------- NOPkins,
As for you, I understand your need to flaunt your machismo in front of your woman. This is the first time you’ve made juvenile remarks like that. I suppose she responds to your strutting and it helps to make your bond stronger. But understand one thing old man, if you think you could ever give me a bloody nose you’ve got another thing coming. You better hit the gym really hard because I’d lay you out so fast you wouldn’t know what hit you. Go back to your porch swing. ----------------------------
I have little need to posture, Cobra. I am in outstanding physical condition. I grew up fighting, am well versed in many different martial art forms, and combat trained. I do "hit the gym", daily. The bloody nose would happen because I didn't intend to do further harm.
I will let you in on a little secret about being a real man; Never bluff.
On a nicer non-posturing note, you are welcome to debate MrsNOP until you turn blue. You will discover that she is a very intelligent woman, and logical. We don't 'tag team' as you implied, and I have never physically intimidated her. What you see is what you get from the two of us. We are not perfect, but we aren't a postured virtual illusion with preconceived motives out to make you paranoid, either.
If you find yourself feeling attacked or paranoid, maybe you should consider a step back for a reexamination of your closely held beliefs.
Oh, and as far as Dr. Laura goes, I find the woman disingenuous, unintelligent and an affront to the male gender. If you would like to read an intelligent woman's perspective on relationships, I suggest you pick up a couple of Michele's books.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
I too am in excellent physical condition. Who said I was bluffing?
I never stated or implied that MrsNOP wasn’t intelligent and logical. I said she likes to push an agenda in an attempt to control a conversation, back someone into a corner and expose any inconsistencies she can. And I don’t believe you two are tag teaming to make people paranoid. I just think she likes to control.
I have no need to step back and examine any of my closely held beliefs. I am well aware of what they are and have no problem with them.
I never made any endorsements of Schlessinger’s character. She may be all you say. I could care less. However she managed to spit out her thoughts, I found much in her book to be of value for my relationship. That is my take on it and I do not care to hear yours, or any else’s view on it. OK?
I have read Michelle’s books. In my opinion they closely mirror Harley’s works. I’m not sure who was first to come out with their book, but I think it was Harley, so I am not sure how much credit to give Michelle.
And by the way, thank you so much granting me permission to converse with your wife on this internet board. Jeeesh!
