No, I have not read the book. Is that a requirement in order to discuss *your* opinions and assertions about the book with you?
Not a requirement but you might understand better what I am agreeing with – Schlessinger’s premises. She has examples all through her book. In fact, she writes it by pulling themes out of numerous examples (sometimes too many).
How many participants on SSM have read SSM? Have you?
Yes.
I am not being a smart ass. I *cannot* see where you have shown a single example of this. Would you be kind enough to cut and paste where you showed me an example of this and place it right under this request?
How about: Let me make a more extreme example. I would like my wife to have breast implants. It is something I, as a male, would like. The very fact that I would mention something like this is likely to trigger all kinds of attacks from women that I am objectifying my wife, I do not care for her a person, that I only want her for sex, blah, blah, blah. The fact of the matter is that I would like her to have bigger, firmer boobs rather than smaller sagging boobs. And I can want this in her and still care about her as a person, even if I want to objectify her boobs.
But this is heresy in the feminist circle. Men are made to feel guilty about thinking such thoughts. I see not reason why we shouldn’t. If I am willing to accept my wife as she is, and do not think less of her if she doesn’t get a boob job, then I should have no hesitancy in stating what I like. But I can’t. Just like I can’t tell her she looks fat on that pair of pants (no I don’t stuff a Twix bar in my face).
Or:
And this is where feminism comes in. If the man is raise to minimize his feelings and feels responsibly for keeping his wife happy, or at least trying to fix her unhappiness, then he takes on an additional load. And even if he knows that he is not responsible for the feelings of others, he cannot help but be brought down by a wife complaining that her feelings are hurt. He instinctively wants to make her feel better, even if he knows he can’t. This inability diminishes his feeling of control over his world. Yet he is a man and men control their domain, they are the king of their castle, or at least other men are, just not him.
Questioning your assertions, disagreeing with your assertions, giving examples that counter your assertions - these are not attacks on you. They are merely disagreements with what you seem to be propounding.
I will take issue with you here. I agree that your have not been launching a full out, direct attack on me. But you have been relentlessly picking away at my opinions merely because you do not agree with them or can understand them. Others seem to have understood very well what I was saying.
Your methods of “disagreeing” are EXACTLY what I am talking about. If we were in a relationship (heaven forbid) you started in on me with your incessant disagreements, I can guarantee that I would not want to express my opinions to you much longer. You may not think you are attacking me, but in a relationship, it would begin to come across to me like that.
I do not think men push their views to the point you do (and many women do, I feel), especially concerning a topic like emotions and relationships, in which women seem to regard themselves as the authority. Maybe there is a reason NOPkins does not consider your feelings as much as he should?
And what you have said makes no sense whatsoever. Choc references some earlier discussion about Dr. Laura (that you evidently weren't a part of) states that she is controversial and somehow that's my fault because I saide something to you this week?
Where do you get this stuff? When did I ever say that he found posting thoughts about Schlessinger to be your fault. He said the topic was controversial on this board. I assumed he was not getting flak from the men since we sad It's come up before, and I found just CeMar and me agreeing with its main points, and she is a very controversial figure. If that assumption is incorrect, then that is my fault. But I don’t think it is incorrect.
And is it possible for women to "become affected," when hubby gets distanced, cold and withholds affection, all as a way to "punish" the wife for her inconsideration for his needs to go hunting every weekend?
Of course women can be affected. But I am not talking about women, I am talking about men. Maybe you should start a thread about how distancing, cold and withholding men can be.
And while you are *affected* by what she expresses, you are not *diminished*. Which is what the issue has been, whether or not a man is *diminished* when his spouse expresses her feelings.
Who said anything about being diminished? Men are affected by women’s expression of dissatisfaction, sometimes to the point of being afraid of the consequences. Is this diminishing? I don’t think their sense of self is diminished. My assertion is that men feel a need to adjust to their wife’s dissatisfaction, which may or may not be justified. And this makes men feel guilty.
And what, if not generalizing, have you been doing?
I believe I stated somewhere in this thread that I am generalizing, and that this does not apply to all relationships.
This seems to be something inherent to females and is therefore wrong. This seems to be wrong in your opinion because it places some unbearable onus on the man to fix.
I never said this was wrong of women. I said it is the way it is, but men don’t need to feed into it.
This need for the man to fix things is inherently male and therefore something he can't help, but that's okay because he's male.
Yes, exactly.
The male's response to female emotional expressions is also a result of feminist infected therapy, therefore it's still women's fault.
Only partially. The only blame lies with men for feeding into this. If they want to continue doing so, then fine.
So, the male's inherent tendencies get a free pass, a woman's inherent tendencies don't.
Sounds like projection from somewhere… . Having an alternative point of view isn't an attack nor is it an indicator of hatred.
True, and your disagreements with me don’t get me riled up, though it is becoming a pain replying to all these messages. But again, we aren’t married, and if we were, I would begin to take another view of your “disagreements.” They would sound to me like you don’t accept my viewpoints and want me to change them, and possibly change me.
But if I disregard you, then I will be in fear of some type of retribution or consequence (like no dinner, no sex). So just how endearing to me do you think your disagreeing is? And before you jump in and say that sounds like implicit control, let me say that is is, every bit as much as men fear for consequences is implicit control.
In the past on this forum, I have pointed out …. So, tell me, am I a feminist?
In spite of all your gender neutral positions on public issues, you still feel like one to me. And that’s my opinion.
