I can express my feelings and my spouse can express his. I would greatly appreciate it if you could give me a single example of how one person expressing their feelings somehow takes away from another person's feelings.
I already have.
The only way I see this occurring is if your wife says something similar to, "I feel that your feelings are inconsequential and shouldn't be considered."
Maybe you see it this way, but I don’t. Neither it would seem do Chocolateyes, Happy Giant, Mandksdad, CeMar, Hairdog, Blackfoot (partially), and HoneyPot’s husband (I am nominating him on her behalf). Take a good look at this list and see what it has in common. These are mostly men trying to patch together their marriage (Ok, HP, your doing the work) with strong willed women who, in my opinion, generally wear the pants in the family (Blackfoot now excluded).
There is nothing wrong with this arrangement if both people are happy. But both aren’t happy. And since it is mostly men on this list, I find Schlessinger’s book particularly relevant to what we men are going through, and so would they it seems. Chocolate eyes started off the male interaction by stating:
I applaud your bravery in citing Dr. Schlessinger's book. It's come up before, and I found just CeMar and me agreeing with its main points, and she is a very controversial figure.
Why would he say such a thing if it were not for the attacks I have been receiving by some women, but most notably you.
If your wife says, "I feel lonely and unloved when you spend every weekend with your hunting buddies." What feeling of yours has been diminished?
I become affected when her feelings turn into resentment and she starts to distance, become cold, withhold sex, all as a way to “punish” me for my inconsideration of her feelings. But my premise, which is directed to the men on this board is the we (and society) are as responsible for enabling this behavior in women, and we should take sight of our own feelings.
I believe I started out my response to you saying that I did not think your or NOPkins fit this mold. He is much more self centered and focused on his own needs. I made the analogy to the “typical” CEO and how they will force things to happen by shear will of personality. I wondered it this was happening in your case.
Have you considered the possibility that NOP was accustomed to looking at his emotional needs first?
And his focus was on him. So, what's your point?
I think my comments regarding your relationship already acknowledged this. So there is no point for you. Again, my point is toward those whose relationships are the inverse of yours.
You appear to be faulting women for being women and then faulting women once again for men being men.
In this particular issue, for those relationships in which men feel the need to rescue the woman’s feelings, this is almost what I am saying. But I do not let the men off the hook. We men enable this and are guilty of perpetuating it ourselves.
It's a WOMAN's fault that she expresses her feelings and it's a WOMAN's fault that a man feels compelled to fix them.
No. Women and men need to express their feelings. But when women pout, act indignant, withhold sex as a means of forcing change in their husbands, then it is WRONG. PERIOD.
So, it boils down to it's all the woman's fault?
Why do you keep trying to put words in my mouth?
This just is not provable! Men jump to offense just as quickly, but perhaps instead of yakking about it they just haul off and punch the other guy, or strategize on how to get his offensive punk-a$$ fired or demoted, or tackled extra hard in the next inning.
Now you are generalizing, using extreme examples. If you don’t see what I am talking about, then that’s your problem. Plenty others seem to understand where I am coming from, whether you believe it is provable or not.
So, am I to gather that talking about being offended is somehow worse than silently taking offense and meting out some type of justice/revenge/result later?
No, but men do not stew over these things to the extent and duration women do.
But that male upbringing is not a result of feminist propaganda, nor is it the result of motherly training.
BS. Mothers these days are much more focused on teaching their children to express themselves and talk about their feelings. It is accepted wisdom that this is a good thing, and I agree. But knowing when to blow things off and not get caught up in trying to interpret every nuance to see if someone was actually being catty is a waste of time and emotion.
Is your point that all/most men are selfless creatures who ignore their own needs and emotions, constantly giving to ungrateful, undeserving wives who have no concern for their husband's feelings?
Again, exaggeration. I did not say this. I have been clear in my position. If you can’t understand me, go read the book.
On the taking on the responsibility for a spouse's feelings - this too, is a two-way street. If I detect that NOP is disgruntled, I start trying to find out what's wrong, was it something I said or did, is there something I can do to make it better.
Again, I said you and NOPkins do not fit my scenario. But I am wondering if you don’t have some bitterness that he focuses on his feelings and needs and you don’t think he caters toward yours (or at least did not do so in the past). Is your frustration with my rocking the apple cart due to your frustration with him?
I see women posting on here who are working their butts off trying to be the kind of wife any husband would want to have. I see them doing as much and making as much effort as any man posting on this board.
And why do you think that is. Is the board a fair representation of the population? No way! Women seek out discussion groups like this, either through friends, supports groups or the internet. And I think it is easier for them to open up than it is for men. So yes, you will see a lot of women here working hard on their relationship.
The men generally think this type of thing is bogus, just a venting platform, and they are sissies for participating. They are also in denial of their feelings (because they are raised to be fixers)!
Now either we women on this board are some sort of anomaly to your vision of men-only responsible, women-only demanding, or there is (IMHO) a definite Hate Women trend to your posts and your views.
To a feminist, I would agree that I come across like that. And I believe there are a lot of feminists on this board, which explains Choc’s comments to me on bringing up this subject. If I bring out alternative points of view that are not in keeping with the feminist dogma, I am attacked. Does that make me a woman hater, or do those attacks make you a man hater?
I want to point out to you that I don't know of any woman on here that has gone on anti-men diatribes at the level that you have toward women.
I said I was not proposing these thoughts for the benefit of women. I do not believe that I have stated anything of a woman thing nature either. You are reading that through your glasses. I wonder if maybe you are the worst kind of feminist, a feminist who does not think she is a feminist. So you dismiss the complaints of men, try to “logical” them out of their views, dismiss their needs…. But then you say you that when NOPkins is upset you try to find out what is bothering him, but he does not reciprocate, instead focusing on himself (or at least he used to). I can see why you would be twisted up.
"You appear to be faulting women for being women and then faulting women once again for men being men.
It's a WOMAN's fault that she expresses her feelings and it's a WOMAN's fault that a man feels compelled to fix them.
So, it boils down to it's all the woman's fault?"
This is your read, not mine. I’ve answered all this already.
