Quote: I think I explained quite clearly how I believe women diminished men’s feelings and how they put the focus on their (women’s) feelings, taking advantage of the man’s natural tendency to fix, and trying to make him feel responsible for making him make her feel better. This is all a manipulative game, one perpetuated by society and an overthrow of the feminist movement (which was sorely needed at the time it coalesced into a movement).
But you haven't explained quite clearly, or I'm being slow. So, a fuller explanation would be appreciated.
I fail to see how expressing *my* feelings diminishes a man's feelings.
I can express my feelings and my spouse can express his. I would greatly appreciate it if you could give me a single example of how one person expressing their feelings somehow takes away from another person's feelings.
The only way I see this occurring is if your wife says something similar to, "I feel that your feelings are inconsequential and shouldn't be considered."
If your wife says, "I feel lonely and unloved when you spend every weekend with your hunting buddies." What feeling of yours has been diminished? How's that any different than a husband saying, "I feel disrespected when I come home and you're eating bonbons and watching soap operas." (pardon the stereotypical stances.)
You appear to be faulting women for being women and then faulting women once again for men being men.
It's a WOMAN's fault that she expresses her feelings and it's a WOMAN's fault that a man feels compelled to fix them.
So, it boils down to it's all the woman's fault?
When it comes to being logical, how f@cked is that?
Quote: Again, you miss the meaning of my comment. Sure men get into fights in bars, expecially while drunk, but among friends or even acquaintances, men do not confront each other to say their feelings are hurt. Or do they even complain to each other or their wives that someone hurt their feelings. But this is common among women. Sure there are women who are more passive and will not speak up to an impolite person, but they will sure vent about it later.
You wrote earlier: "Thank you, you’ve answered your own question for me. Men generally do not jump to get confront each other so quickly if they feel they have been offended. The general model for boys is to let things slide, blow it off, don’t get into a confrontation unless necessary. Girls are taught to express their feelings as soon as they are hurt. Your response was perfect!"
This just is not provable! Men jump to offense just as quickly, but perhaps instead of yakking about it they just haul off and punch the other guy, or strategize on how to get his offensive punk-a$$ fired or demoted, or tackled extra hard in the next inning. NOP was in the corporate world for 15 years, I heard him discuss what was happening. It was a constant struggle for power, position, revenge and control. Yeah, they may not have been coffee klatching about how Bruiser Smith was so mean earlier that day, but I know that Bruiser's offending indiscretion had been noted and would be dealt with in some form or fashion at a later time.
So, am I to gather that talking about being offended is somehow worse than silently taking offense and meting out some type of justice/revenge/result later?
What's running through my head right now is Di Niro in Taxi Driver posturing in front of the mirror with his gun saying: "You looking at me?"
Neither men or women are evil, or bad, or *worse* than the other. They're just different in some ways.
I wrote that the butch-up upbringing was usually instigated by dads, rather than moms and you wrote:
Quote: But this very upbringing is part of what causes women to focus on their feelings and prompt men to fix those feelings. In this way, men’s feelings are often denied because they might say something that could hurt the woman’s feelings.
But that male upbringing is not a result of feminist propaganda, nor is it the result of motherly training. But, you keep appearing to fault women specifically for men being this way.
Quote:
Quote: It takes a great deal of effort for a wounded person to be able to keep a steady look at one's partner.
Especially if you are accustomed to looking at your emotional needs first, then his.
Does this particular road run both ways in your world, Cobra? Have you considered the possibility that NOP was accustomed to looking at his emotional needs first?
Quote:
Quote: I am not saying that my perceptions at the time were truth, but they were the basis for what occurred in my marriage. As far as I could tell, my husband didn't love me. As far as I could tell, he had little interest in me beyond a few limited aspects.
See, the focus is on you…
And his focus was on him. So, what's your point?
Is your point that all/most men are selfless creatures who ignore their own needs and emotions, constantly giving to ungrateful, undeserving wives who have no concern for their husband's feelings?
Is that the foundation upon which you want to stand?
On the taking on the responsibility for a spouse's feelings - this too, is a two-way street. If I detect that NOP is disgruntled, I start trying to find out what's wrong, was it something I said or did, is there something I can do to make it better.
I see women posting on here who are working their butts off trying to be the kind of wife any husband would want to have. I see them doing as much and making as much effort as any man posting on this board.
Now either we women on this board are some sort of anomaly to your vision of men-only responsible, women-only demanding, or there is (IMHO) a definite Hate Women trend to your posts and your views.
I want to point out to you that I don't know of any woman on here that has gone on anti-men diatribes at the level that you have toward women.
And since this is so long, I want to sum up what I think my main point in all these many words is:
"You appear to be faulting women for being women and then faulting women once again for men being men.
It's a WOMAN's fault that she expresses her feelings and it's a WOMAN's fault that a man feels compelled to fix them.
