Quote: I didn't suffer under force, coercion, or manipulation. I don't think any of those things are ever a part of a decent marriage. And trying to use evil actions to attempt to *gain* a decent marriage is an abomination to me. The ends do not justify the means.
So say you. NOPkins asked you repeatedly to engage in the relationship, to give him sex, to acknowledge his complaints. Why did you not hear him, why did you discount what he was saying? Why did you continue for so long to undermine the marriage? Of course it wasn’t you suffering, it was him. It goes without saying your marriage then was not decent.
Cobra, I had also repeatedly asked NOP to engage in our relationship, to acknowledge my complaints, needs, whatever you want to call them. He heard me about as well as I heard him.
Why did it go on as long as it did? Because the two of us are imperfect people, with a very imperfect upbringing. Neither of us had examples of what a good marriage was. Both of us brought some pretty large issues and shortcomings into the relationship. Given time, we had both managed to heap even more negative things into the relationship in addition to those we brought with us initially. And like most people do in a painful situation, we both were painfully aware of our own wounds and much less aware of the others. And as most people do, we thought each of our hurt was the greater and that each of our contributions was greater.
It takes a great deal of effort for a wounded person to be able to keep a steady look at one's partner.
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Did you want a decent marriage then or were you content to stay in that unhappiness? I suspect anyone will say they want a good marriage, including you. So why did you prolong such abuse toward your husband. And yes, in my opinion, it was abuse, plain and simple. Women do not see it this way since they equate abuse with yelling, or other types of common abuse. Do you really think your actions were not evil?
Of course I longed for a good marriage. I would assume that I was no more content to stay in my misery as you are in yours. I, probably as have you, stayed primarily because of moral constraints against divorce, because of our child and because as broken as it might be, I loved him.
You come across as such an angry man, Cobra. I know that you have had to squelch a lot of your feelings over the years in your marriage. I am truly sorry that it has been so difficult for you. In my opinion, you make the error of venting that anger at practically every woman with whom you have discoursed here.
If I chose to stop making love to NOP now, it would be a form of abuse.
Because I would be doing it from a place of knowledge, rather than from a place of ignorance.
While I understand you think my actions were evil, I can't agree. I am not saying that my perceptions at the time were truth, but they were the basis for what occurred in my marriage. As far as I could tell, my husband didn't love me. As far as I could tell, he had little interest in me beyond a few limited aspects. If you perceived that your wife was only interested in you for your paycheck and car repair (whether or not that was true), and that nothing else about you held any interest or was worth any effort on her part - what is going to happen to your heart toward her? Perhaps you are better/stronger than I and could continue being generous, loving, tender toward your wife under similar circumstances.
I was unable to handle it that well.
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And are you saying that what NOPkins did to turn the relationship around was not force, coercion or manipulation? It most certainly was! He gave you an ultimatum. You had a choice in whether to accept it or not, just as you have a choice to comply with the demands of someone who is twisting your arm or not. He put a situation on you that you otherwise did not want to have, and this forced you into changing your behavior.
I don't see boundaries as force, coercion or manipulation. What I saw was my husband in pain, in kindness, yet with firm conviction tell me that he could not continue this way. I understood this *because I had felt exactly the same way*. We were both already in a situation that neither or us wanted to have. Your wife may want the status quo to continue, I did not. The conflict was a result of several years of unresolved issues that had never been adequately addressed by either of us. We had both withdrawn. According to Harley of Marriage Builders, couples have to move from withdrawal THROUGH CONFLICT in order to get to intimacy.
What he offered was an opportunity to try to salvage our marriage. He did not force me into changing my behavior. I joined with him in an effort to make something out of our marriage that could be a blessing to both of us.
