SIGH I just don't know, my W knows what she is doing IS wrong....she's already expressed that to me....but yet it continues and, here's the part that I love, I'm not supposed to say word one about it.
Ain't that the truth! It defies logic does it not! The addiction analogy is so true. So where do our WAS go to get help with their addiction? Is there a safe house we can send them to? I believe my W needs an intervention very soon! How long do we put up with it and how long do we enable their addiction? I have no answers to these questions I believe it is just a matter of personal choices! Choosing to put up with it. Choosig to GAL of our own.
Rob I am glad you are doing better keep it up!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Quote: SIGH I just don't know, my W knows what she is doing IS wrong....she's already expressed that to me....but yet it continues and, here's the part that I love, I'm not supposed to say word one about it.
Oh, don't I know it. It's not even an argument when I bring anything up that MAY have to do with what she's doing. She acts like I am silly for even thinking of it, like it should be nothing more than an afterthought to me. It's totally frustrating because my W keeps insinuating that she's ending things with him but I see so much evidence to the contrary. Who knows. What I do know is that it's a lot better than some of the alternatives but not much.
Quote: It's totally frustrating because my W keeps insinuating that she's ending things with him but I see so much evidence to the contrary
Okay, here's the kicker, my W has not insinuated, she has flat out told me that she said to him the other night that she was working this M out. Now, this is after she gave him his V-day gift and all.....and she continues to talk to him and such since then. IMHO, that's really not ending it, but rather putting things on hold there just in case in doesn't work out here.....
And yes, I guess it is better than the alternatives...its like Oldtimer told us the other day GH, it is a CHOICE. We have chosen to accept this and the sh*t that goes with it in the hopes that we can save it. So....there we go.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
I think THEY think there is nothing wrong with continuing to talk to them. They don't get that in our minds, no matter what level the relationship is on NOW, it is still down and dirty to us, including all the naughty things that were going on at it's peak. Sure, that's partly our problem for obsessing, but it's mostly theirs for not realizing what they're doing, or not caring. In your W's mind (and my W's mind prolly too), she thinks she IS working on the M, but that is not mutually exclusive of maintaining some contact with OM. I am relatively sure the amount of contact my W and the OM have is reduced these days but things like V-day really set me back a LONG way in believing that the A is anywhere close to over. Have faith Rob. I think once you and I are more sure of ourselves and our changes, the course we should take will be clearer whether that is talking to our W's, DBing some more, or God forbid, breaking things off ourselves. I really think the current path we are on will lead us to the ability to know the right thing to do, and when to do it. Don't ask me how I know that, it's just a hunch.
Quote: I think THEY think there is nothing wrong with continuing to talk to them. They don't get that in our minds, no matter what level the relationship is on NOW, it is still down and dirty to us, including all the naughty things that were going on at it's peak.
Absolutely, this is precisely what is going on. Funny, I just had a phone convo with W this afternoon which started out fairly well, but went down hill (grrr, because I don't like being talked down to), but in essence, she said "I am trying to work on us, but when you pressure me, it just pushes me away". Okay, recognize that I really don't believe I was "pressuring" her....although maybe I wasn't being Mr. Submissive either, but what irks me (and this was unspoken to her) is that, again, I know for a fact, not just conjecture, that she is still talking to OM. She just doesn't seem to think that the two things are mutually exclusive.
Oh well, I really have to calm it down before I go home. I need to recognize that I must put up with any level of b.s. if there is any chance of getting through this.
my goal: A successful DB weekend. Positive thoughts no matter what the cost!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Ask and ye shall receive. Thank you Jabez and GH for inquiring. Relatively speaking, things have been going fairly well in my sitch. Obviously, they are not 100% okay, but I see so many positives in my W's behavior these days. I honestly don't believe that she is over the OM and for all I know, they still talk, etc. But, her actions have been positive over the past few weeks.
Over the course of the past few weeks, one of the few things that really bothered me is that my W was so quick to assure me that she loved me, that I was her life and that she didn't want to lose me. She continuely assured me that she was committed to working on our M and that she had told the OM this. But, on the other hand, she was still contacting the OM by phone on nearly a daily basis, spending anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes a day talking to him. Despite knowign this, I tried my best to make the best of it and we have started to connect on some levels again. I see more of my old W now than I have in the past six months. As an example, she has made it a point to spend time with me in the evenings before work, just hanging out and wathcing a show. Prior to this, she had used this time to sleep. On the weekends, we have been planning activities with the girls on Saturdays and on Sundays, we have designated that as our relaxation day. I usually start her day with a back rub or foot rub and we just kinda hang loose all day spending time together.
Last week, I finnaly confronted her about talking on the phone with OM. I knew she was doing this because she had a phone card. I told her, in no uncertain terms, that contacting him in this way was seriously undermining our chances of reconciliation and that it hurt me that she had to continue to do so. She explained to me, again, that she had told him that she was working on our M, that she only talked to him as a friend, and that she had distanced herself "a lot" from him (I assume this means that she doesn't meet him in the mornings anymore and such). She told me that she needed to work this out in her own way.
Long story short, I finally snapped last week and told her that it was ridiculous, etc, etc. I had asked that she at least stop calling him every day (I know, not very DB, sorry) and so forth. She recognized what she was doing was wrong and agreed that she wouldn't call him.
Okay, now, I don't believe for a second that she will stop and this bothered me. I played along and tried to make the best of the situation, all the while wondering whether I could take it anymore. Meanwhile, recognize, there were still many positives in her behavior. Problem was, I was focusing on the negatives.
So, yesterday, I sat down with my little journal and started to go over some things......I reviewed my goals from two months ago and took a look a how far things have come. it occured to me at that moment that I had overlooked so many positives that if I didn't take steps to temper my behavior, i was going to throw the whole M right out the window.
As an example, one of my goals was that the W would want to spend more time with me. In January, she wasn't spending any quality time with me, was always looking to get "out" and so forth and so on. Since then, like I said, we spend a good deal of time together and she has mentioned doing some things we haven't done in some time.
In short, W seems more upbeat, we've shared more laughs and she has taken to calling me now and again just to "check in". She seems genuinely willing to work on us.
Since I have recongized this, i have re-evaulated my goals and have recognized that I need to be more positive with her and accentuate the good things she does...this morning, as an example, when she called on my way to work just to check-in, i told her that I appreciated the call and that I really liked it when she did it. Will it make a difference? Who knows, but at least she knows I appreciate the little things.
This weekend, I took the iniative in planning an overnight outing for her and I in Philadelphia....go see a concert and stay overnight. She is really excited by this and so am I.
This probably seems like a rambling post, and it is. I haven't had much time to sort through some of these things, but I just "feel" more positive. I response, I have become more upbeat with her, have made sure that she knows that I appreciate little things and have taken the initiative to move closer to her. All in all, it seems to be working for the time being, but only time will tell. I'm sure there will be bad days, but I think that we are starting to see the good days outweigh those.
Again, thanks for inquiring. Once my thoughts are back in order I will try to pin some of these issues down for everyone!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
First of all, GET OUT OF MY HOUSE AND STOP DOING MY WIFE!!!
lol
I swear, there is no way our W's are not long lost twins or something. For that matter, so are we!
But, her actions have been positive over the past few weeks.
Yep, check that here too. Does it mean anything? We hope so.
Over the course of the past few weeks, one of the few things that really bothered me is that my W was so quick to assure me that she loved me, that I was her life and that she didn't want to lose me.
Ok, this is being picky, but I found this interesting. Sure, you went on to expand the thought later on, but the sentence where you were going to tell us something that bothered you was filled with good things she's doing. Did you realize that? Funny, I wonder if we sometimes fail SO miserably in recognizing the good stuff (as you aptly point out later on). Something about cutting noses off in spite of faces or something like that.
But, on the other hand, she was still contacting the OM by phone on nearly a daily basis, spending anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes a day talking to him. Despite knowing this, I tried my best to make the best of it and we have started to connect on some levels again.
Um...but...you know what that means... "Well, my W is doing all this positive stuff BUT I can't see any of that because I am fixated on the negative."
I see more of my old W now than I have in the past six months. As an example, she has made it a point to spend time with me in the evenings before work, just hanging out and watching a show. Prior to this, she had used this time to sleep.
Amen. Me too except the part about her recommitting to the M. All this is good. She is trying to do the things that matter in a marriage, namely spending quality time.
Last week, I finally confronted her about talking on the phone with OM. I knew she was doing this because she had a phone card. I told her, in no uncertain terms, that contacting him in this way was seriously undermining our chances of reconciliation and that it hurt me that she had to continue to do so. She explained to me, again, that she had told him that she was working on our M, that she only talked to him as a friend, and that she had distanced herself "a lot" from him (I assume this means that she doesn't meet him in the mornings anymore and such). She told me that she needed to work this out in her own way.
I get the impression my W is trying in her non-direct, non-communicative way to say the same thing. She is trying to give me the impression (phone inside now and then when it used to live in her car) that she is having less contact with OM. She also gives me that line about needing to do it her way. Maybe they need to get a job at Burger King where they CAN have it their way! I agree with you, and said so to my W too. There can be NO communication with OM if we are to truly move past this. I am not going to hold her to that now though because unlike your W (and as OT so kindly put it) my W has NOT decided to focus on our M. Yours has, and I think you have the right to hold her to that word. I think she will eventually see the light and do the right thing. Like you said there ARE VERY positive signs right now from your W.
Okay, now, I don't believe for a second that she will stop and this bothered me. I played along and tried to make the best of the situation, all the while wondering whether I could take it anymore. Meanwhile, recognize, there were still many positives in her behavior. Problem was, I was focusing on the negatives.
Urethra!
So, yesterday, I sat down with my little journal and started to go over some things......I reviewed my goals from two months ago and took a look a how far things have come. it occurred to me at that moment that I had overlooked so many positives that if I didn't take steps to temper my behavior, i was going to throw the whole M right out the window.
Again, my brother from another mother, I am going through the same thing, once again, sans the commitment to the M from my W. I feel like I am missing out on the opportunity to validate and express positive reactions to my W's progress. I suppose for me, dunno if it's the same for you, that it's because I am not totally convinced (or really even a little bit) that she's not just figuring out how to "play" me better so she can just go on with the cake/eating it too bit and if I react at all, positive or negative, it will play into that. It's so hard because reacting at all is something we try to resist in detaching, etc. It's hard to know when to stop that and start being a real, feeling human again. Again, you don't have nearly the same problem. You know what you are seeing, and you know what you're doing. Just do it better.
This probably seems like a rambling post, and it is. I haven't had much time to sort through some of these things, but I just "feel" more positive. I response, I have become more upbeat with her, have made sure that she knows that I appreciate little things and have taken the initiative to move closer to her. All in all, it seems to be working for the time being, but only time will tell. I'm sure there will be bad days, but I think that we are starting to see the good days outweigh those.
This is the good part. Keep this outlook. Eventually, you both will have to get past your affairs (remember, I think she is still thinking about yours) and just fall back into trust once again. My C brought up trust in the session yesterday and it's been on my mind ever since. Eventually you will just have to get to the point where all signs point to that cliff and you'll have to jump off. Could you get hurt? Sure, but DB/DR/and being much more self aware than the first time around should make for a helluva parachute.
Quote: First of all, GET OUT OF MY HOUSE AND STOP DOING MY WIFE!!!
Wait, maybe I should be saying the same thing to YOU! LOL You sure you don't live in PA??
Yes, they definitely are long lost twins....truly amazing really.
This is why I'm glad you're back, man. You really have put these things into perspective for me as usual.
Quote: Ok, this is being picky, but I found this interesting. Sure, you went on to expand the thought later on, but the sentence where you were going to tell us something that bothered you was filled with good things she's doing. Did you realize that? Funny, I wonder if we sometimes fail SO miserably in recognizing the good stuff (as you aptly point out later on). Something about cutting noses off in spite of faces or something like that.
It never dawned on me until I just reviewed it and you're right. Interestingly, this is what I HAVE been thinking...I've been so focused on the negatives that I haven't even given the positives a passing glance. And truly, the positives outweigh the negatives. The important thing is I lost myself in the negatives....to such a large extent. I used to be the positive one all the time and lately I have been wallowing in self-pity and negativity. Kind of ironic really, my W has always identified herself with the Disney character Eeyore (heck, she even has a shrine to the thing in our room)....strangely, I've adopted the Eeyore mentality in regards to this sitch. Must rid myself of this.
A little sidenote, funny how mentioning Eeyore just brought up something interesting....Back in September, right around the time the bomb dropped, I suggested to W that she get an Eeyore tattoo (she couldn't decide what to get) and she did. Ever since, my whole life has been shrouded in a gray cloud. A note to everyone out there....DO NOT suggest an Eeyore tattoo for your SO!! LOL And GH, if you tell me your W has one....then we need to really talk.........
Quote: Um...but...you know what that means... "Well, my W is doing all this positive stuff BUT I can't see any of that because I am fixated on the negative."
Yes, exactly, even though I can see that the positives outweigh the negatives at this point.
Quote: I get the impression my W is trying in her non-direct, non-communicative way to say the same thing. She is trying to give me the impression (phone inside now and then when it used to live in her car) that she is having less contact with OM. She also gives me that line about needing to do it her way. Maybe they need to get a job at Burger King where they CAN have it their way! I agree with you, and said so to my W too. There can be NO communication with OM if we are to truly move past this. I am not going to hold her to that now though because unlike your W (and as OT so kindly put it) my W has NOT decided to focus on our M. Yours has, and I think you have the right to hold her to that word. I think she will eventually see the light and do the right thing. Like you said there ARE VERY positive signs right now from your W.
Yeah, I agree with you here. I've told her that there is no possible way that we can move beyond this with him still in our life. As I put it, "B, there is NO way that I can ever accept him as part of our life". That as straight-forward as I can put it.
As for giving me the impression that she has less contact with OM, she has actually told me this (only after pressing some) and I have no choice but to believe her. She has said that she has distanced herself to a great deal. Okay, that's all well and fine, but I still couldn't understand why she needed the daily contact. In any event, I do believe she will eventually do the right thing....the only thing I fear is that I get fed up and move on before that time....
Quote: Again, my brother from another mother, I am going through the same thing, once again, sans the commitment to the M from my W. I feel like I am missing out on the opportunity to validate and express positive reactions to my W's progress. I suppose for me, dunno if it's the same for you, that it's because I am not totally convinced (or really even a little bit) that she's not just figuring out how to "play" me better so she can just go on with the cake/eating it too bit and if I react at all, positive or negative, it will play into that. It's so hard because reacting at all is something we try to resist in detaching, etc. It's hard to know when to stop that and start being a real, feeling human again. Again, you don't have nearly the same problem. You know what you are seeing, and you know what you're doing. Just do it better.
Yes, I struggle with the exact same feelings....maybe this is all a play for her to be able to continue the cake eating ploy....but then again...
The point being, I guess I will never know unless I try and truthfully, she does deserve some props becuase she has expressed many positive things. If I keep focusing and harping on the negatives, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Quote: Eventually, you both will have to get past your affairs (remember, I think she is still thinking about yours) and just fall back into trust once again.
I truly have no doubt that you are right and I think about this when I start to get indignant and start with the "how could you....", Yes, there will have to come a time, but in the meantime, I must focus on making myself a better person and hoping that she comes around in the process. The leap will come at some point....lets hope I remember to pack the parachute
By the way, if I'm ever in Florida, I am looking you up....maybe we were separated at birth..
This leads me to another question that I'll have to ask you offlilne (not related to R talk....)....
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
