I just need some kind of closure, or at least a jumping off point to say "ok, now we are ready to work on US again." If she won't ever confirm or deny that the OM is gone, how can I do that?
You don't have to look to her for an answer on this. All along you have been working on "us" without her. When the OM was around did you stop working on your M because he was in the picture? Of course not. And just because he is out of the picture does not mean things are clear on her end. Just do what you can do and eventually, if she wants to, your W will follow. As Rob said, it need not be done with any great fanfare.
I guess the real question is how do we "close" the marriage again and go back to the state of being where it's NOT ok to cheat...
It was never OK to cheat. And your old M is already closed. Now you have to work on rebuilding. Kinda like after a hurricane--something terrible that came along and left you devastated but did not destroy your spirit or your ability to rebuild.
GH good work my friend! You have done good! For you and Rob I have to remind you that I did actually achieve that point of reconciliation that we are all hoping for. You both mentioned that DB must become your way of life and continue! It is a must and it is where I failed! Once I got my back together with my W, I thought I was out of the woods! WRONG! You need to work harder then!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
GH, if and when it does appear that the OM is gone, you may want to suggest that the two of you attend one of those weekend marriage retreats. Those things work like intensive counseling and can sometimes produce dramatic results.
Even if she still hasn't completely broken it off with the OM, those things can still sometimes work.
The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth." (Psalm 145:18)
I don't think so. I really think I got my need to ask her to talk out last night. She made it clear that she doesn't want to right now so I am good for awhile. Sure, I feel like it would be GREAT if she just declared her undying love for me and said how totally wrong all this was. Yea, just like I hope for world peace and all that... No, I am ok. I will not push. I will observe and see what happens. On that note, I guess it's a common thing for my W to be saying, like she did on V-day, things like "if you only knew" when I get in a huff about the OM. She seems to be suggesting that if I knew what's going on I would not be concerned. I don't know if I remembered this in my V-day update, but that's actually how the talk we had started. She said "if you only knew" when I was acting miffed about her going out. I immediately said, well, then tell me so I do know if it would make me feel better. Again, not great DB, but it worked to get her to open up a bit.
It was never OK to cheat. And your old M is already closed. Now you have to work on rebuilding. Kinda like after a hurricane--something terrible that came along and left you devastated but did not destroy your spirit or your ability to rebuild.
Oh sure, go with the hurricane ref for the florida boy! Seriously, that is a good way to think about it, and really how I have thought about it for most of the time. This is a new thing we are going into and it is thinking it's the same ole marriage that will contribute to our downfall. Thanks.
It was a quiet day today. After work, I went home and picked the W and kids up for an evening shopping at the mall. I was excited because my W found out that one of the big department stores was having a 75% off sale and I need new clothes badly. Also, a lot of what was on sale was winter stuff that I'll need in Ireland. SO, we go to the mall, get tons of stuff for me and only a jacket for my W. It was really weird. I NEVER buy clothes and it was really nice to get some cool new duds. After shopping for me, the boys and I ate while W went shopping for a little bit more. After that I took the boys to the car to wait for W to finish and the only real drama of the night began, and trust me, this is a reach. When I loaded my stuff in the trunk (her car) I saw a stack of DVD's. They looked like some that I got for Christmas and some we have owned for awhile, but of the 6-7 that were there, only one was anything my W would ever choose to watch. When she called me to come pick her up I asked her if they were our DVD's and she said yes. That was all. When we got home she wend into this really awkward explanation (I didn't even ask) about how she put them in her car because she thought she may watch one if she got bored and didn't want to go home after the gym one day but then realized that the portable DVD player was not in the car....um....wow. They can't help themselves, can they? I mean come on, I didn't ask what was up with them because it was obvious it was for date night (and please, if you saw the selection of movies, you would not even come close to suggesting I am wrong about this one). Don't ask, don't get a really forced, bad lie. So, I blew it off. No point in dwelling on something so silly. Funny that she would lie about it but hey, to each their own. All in all, it was a good night. I modeled the clothes, and got lots of compliments. Oh, and she also said she never thought she'd see the day I was so excited to shop for, and buy clothes. I told her I always liked to do it but my taste was a little expensive so I didn't bother. Of course I added that since I look so good now and feel even better, I wanted to get some clothes to reflect that. She commented "Shame it took so long." It wasn't too venomous but she got the point across. I didn't reply. I just let it slide. I was feeling too good. So I am all geared up for Ireland and I can't wait to go. I just hope this little DB dance I am doing can hold up that long. There is still the frustration of the OM still being around (as I walked up to her in the store after taking S3 to the bathroom she was on the phone and quickly got off when she saw me) and I need to keep that in check. So, like I said, a rather uneventful night, which these days is good. I hope you all are doing ok and I will catch up with you tomorrow.
Quote: They can't help themselves, can they? I mean come on, I didn't ask what was up with them because it was obvious it was for date night (and please, if you saw the selection of movies, you would not even come close to suggesting I am wrong about this one). Don't ask, don't get a really forced, bad lie.
They really can't can they. Amazing sometimes the yarns my W spins, even when I'm not pressing for anything. I've given up on even trying to rationalize any of it, they truly are in a different world. I guess what really surprises me about my W is that this is a woman who absolutely despised people who did such things. Oh well, as the world turns, right?
In any event, GH, you are doing a fantastic job, really. Even in the face of some pretty telling stuff, you have chosen to take the high road and I applaud you for it.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Quote: GH, if and when it does appear that the OM is gone, you may want to suggest that the two of you attend one of those weekend marriage retreats. Those things work like intensive counseling and can sometimes produce dramatic results.
I would LOVE to do something like that but my W, really ever since I've known her, and especially now, has a severe dislike for therapy and self help of any sort. I used to share her sentiment. I can't ever see her willing to attend something like that but I really appreciate the advice and I will not rule it out totally. Heck, I never thought my W would do much of anything she's done lately so who knows...
Quote: I would LOVE to do something like that but my W, really ever since I've known her, and especially now, has a severe dislike for therapy and self help of any sort. I used to share her sentiment. I can't ever see her willing to attend something like that but I really appreciate the advice and I will not rule it out totally.
Describes my W to a tee. I definitely think we could benefit from it (I even thought this before this sitch), but talking about problems is NOT her strong point.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
You all wanna hear the worst reason any of us have been reduced to tears? Tonight was literally moved to tears by my W's butt. Damn, it's been a LONG time...
Really quiet night other than that truly weak moment...
