For those of you who are divorced, how many involved an "angry" spouse? For those with an angry spouse, did you ever regain a relationship (of any kind) with them? Did the angry person eventually realize the err of their ways? How long did it take?
Yes!!!! My ex was terribly angry for a very long time and today we get along better than ever.
My ex was so angry at me!!!!!!!!!! He was so cruel and filed for divorce in the meanest way. It took a lot of work on my part to diffuse his anger and have a loving relationship with him again.
You asked if they ever realized the err of their ways.....Yes, my ex realized the err of his ways after I realized the err of my ways first. He now understands his mistakes almost to a fault and is dealing with a lot of shame and guilt.
I apologized and let him know that I understoond how much pain I caused him. Apologizing in the beginning is probably useless even though I think a little bit of apologizing is necessary or your may come across angry and bitter. Too much apologizing comes across as pathetic. When time passed and I came across as a stronger and more secure person, I apologized in a way that made ex believe I was sorry. Others may disagree with this, but it worked for me. Some say that apologizing brings back memories of the past. This is true because sometimes when I apologized ex would get frustrated and say he just wanted to forget all that stuff and move forward. However, apologizing and truly being sorry made a huge improvement in his anger.
How long did it take....honestly it took over a year. A lot of resentment and anger had been created, and it took a lot of time to get past that.
It takes a lot of patience......I just read this post and thought I should share it here from the "I Need Support for my Marital Problems" forum by Amy C.
Quote: I make it a point to pay really close attention when someone elderly speaks to me. They often have a keen insight into matters of the heart.
When I was at my old job and deeply mired in my MLC and seeking divorce- I worked on the 3rd floor but was checking production status' on the first floor, where there was also an insurance agency. An elderly black man was coming out of the insurance agency. He had a walker and was headed towards the big glass doors so I stepped over to get the door for him and then I stepped outside with him as his ride pulled up. When I turned to go back inside he looked right into my eyes and he said "as surely as the sun rises, time changes things". That rocked my world. I felt like I had just been prophesied to. It gave me chills again just now as I typed it. I NEVER forgot that. That was last Spring - almost a year ago and look what I am doing now. Fighting to save my marriage. Always listen to those older than you. 9 times out of 10, I'd bet they are dead on.
Amy
Personally, I took specific steps to help with ex's anger.
1. I practiced specific techniques that I learned in a book called "How to Heal A Painful Relationship" by Bill Ferguson. This is a specific chapter that hit home.
Quote: RELEASE THE OTHER PERSON’S UPSETS To remove the distance in a relationship, you need to release your upsets.You also need to release the other person’s upsets. Usually this is the exact opposite of what we do. Instead of encouraging communication, we discourage it. We don’t want to hear that people are upset at us. We don’t like people pointing at our responsibility. We don’t like looking at certain aspects of ourselves. We don’t want to hear what people have to say. So we resist their communication.
We argue with people and tell them that what they say is not true. We tell them that they’re wrong and that they shouldn’t feel the way they do. Sometimes we even attack. We’ll do anything rather than hear a communication that we don’t like. We act as though the person’s upset will somehow disappear if we don’t listen to it. Obviously, this doesn’t happen.
If someone is upset at you, keeping the upset from being communicated certainly won’t make it go away. Suppressing an upset only makes it worse. The upset gets stronger and now the person has a new upset for having been suppressed. When someone can’t communicate an upset directly, the upset will be communicated indirectly. The person may have an affair or just be resentful. One way or another, the upset will always be communicated.
It’s much better to get an upset communicated directly than indirectly. To the extent that you are able to understand and appreciate someone’s upset, the upset loses power and no longer needs to be expressed. Resisting a communication also produces more conflict. When you resist what someone says, that person must then either suppress the communication or communicate the upset more forcefully. When the upset is said more forcefully, you feel threatened and resist even more. Then both of you become more frustrated and more upset.
This is what happens in any argument. Both of you are resisting what the other is saying. If either one of you would stop resisting and hear the other person’s communication, the argument would end.
The key to releasing someone’s upset is to have the other person say whatever he or she is upset about. Let the person get the upset off his or her chest. Ask what the person is upset about. Have the person tell you how he or she feels. Pull the upset out. Get it said.
If the person is ranting and raving, that’s fine. It’s much better to have the upset expressed than to have it kept inside. Keep pulling the upset out. Listen to what the person has to say and listen to the communication from his or her point of view. You don’t have to like what’s being said or even agree. You don’t have to do anything. Just listen. “Yes, you are angry. You feel I let you down. You hate me. Yes, I understand. I don’t blame you. Is there anything else?”
The communication may not be true, but it’s true to the other person, and that’s what counts. The more you can appreciate and understand what someone is upset about, the more the upset disappears. It’s just like taking the wind out of a sail.
By having the other person release his or her upsets, you can remove the distance and restore the love in your relationship.
EXAMPLE
Gene felt like Lynn hated him. No matter what he did, it was never enough. Lynn was always upset about something. Then Gene discovered that he had made it almost impossible for Lynn to communicate. Whenever Lynn got upset, he would fight and argue. He would never let her say what she was upset about. When Lynn couldn’t communicate her upsets, she had to keep them inside. She felt suppressed and became more upset and more resentful.
Once Gene saw what was happening, he was eager to hear what Lynn had to say. He told her that he really wanted to know what she was upset about. He promised not to argue with her. Lynn seized the opportunity and blasted him. She told him that she thought he was a loser and that she had no respect for him. She told him how angry she was.
It hurt to hear what Lynn had to say, but Gene continued to listen. He kept asking, “Is there anything else that you’ve been upset about?” As Lynn expressed her upsets, they quickly lost power and disappeared. Lynn then became less defensive and more accepting of Gene. Eventually, she explained how deeply hurt she had been by some things Gene said years ago. She had kept this hurt inside and had been protective ever since.
Once Lynn said everything she was upset about, Gene did the same. He told her how angry and hurt he was for not being accepted. He told Lynn all the things that upset him, but he made sure that he didn’t blame Lynn or try to change her.
By the time both of them had said everything they could think of, their relationship had changed. The protectiveness disappeared and the intimacy returned. Gene and Lynn were closer than they had been in years.
By making it safe for Lynn to communicate, Gene released Lynn’s upsets and restored the love in his relationship.
ACTION TO TAKE • Listen to whatever the other person has to say, and listen from his or her point of view. Don’t fight or argue. Just listen. • Pull out the other person’s upsets. Do whatever you can to have the other person say what he or she is upset about. Ask, “Is there anything else that you’ve been upset about?” • If the person is ranting and raving, that’s okay. Just keep listening and pulling out the upset. Remember that you don’t have to like it or agree. Just listen. • Make it safe for the other person to communicate anything.
2. I read posts from walk-aways to try to see ex's point of view. Ceberon's posts helped the most. He has many good posts in this single thread.
3. I wrote an apology letter from things I learned from Ceberon's thread. Here is an expert from my letter.
Quote: "I see how you were hopelessly trying to find happiness in your life with me. I see how painful it must have been for you to feel so trapped in such an unhappy situation. I see how all of your hopes and dreams were also destroyed."
I see how hard it must have been for you to file for divorce. I realize how scared you must have been to come out looking like the bad guy.
I apologized for specific things in that letter and I also made it clear that my apology included no pressure. Ex appreciated that letter so much. After that letter I never apologized again. That was it!!! No more going into the past again. Please know that I sent that letter 14 months after our separation started. Anytime sooner would have come across as manupulative for me. I was angry myself for a very long time.
4. I forgave ex. I read anything I could on forgiveness so I could learn how to do it. It was hard to do.
5. I seperated my anger from ex's anger. I made them out to be two separate issues in my head even though my anger caused his anger caused my anger etc..... I apologized to ex for the pain I caused him all the while not even bringing the pain he caused me to mind. There was time for that later.
6. I read things in the bible about forgiveness and I read stories about people who forgave others for a lot worse. One book was by Joyce Meyers. Her father molested her and she forgave him and even has a relationship with him. I thought, if she can forgive her dad, I can forgive ex.
Hope this helps. Hang in there because things do get easier. I know everyone keeps telling you that, but it is a belief worth holding on to.
Sam, Did you get D?. I'm going through the process right now I have a court date on Tue. for a conference to see if we can reconcile but that won't happen and I'm trying to not get H mad at me and thats hard and he is being so cold and nasty. I hope for a relationship after this but right now it is hard to be his friend and after the D I'm sure he will be angry with me for taking all that I could but he doesn't realize I have two kids to raise (his kids) and he needs to not have an attitude when it comes to them but anyway I do love him and have forgave him but he says he can't forgive himself so I don't know if there is any hope for me? any advice would be greatly appreciated Joa.
Wow thanks a lot Sam. Some great words of advice there.
I really hope things work out between my wife and I, but if not I hope we have a good post-marriage relationship. She's so resentful and angry with me right now I have a hard time believing her attitude will change.
Joa, He may be angry with you after the divorce and he may not. I was very kind to ex but not when it came to splitting our assests. Ex was very greedy during our divorce and that is where I laid down the law. I did it in a firm but loving was. Today, ex is happy to send me money each month. They do get over the anger. Ex and I actually left mediation together. One hour earlier, he didn't even want to settle. He was going to take it to court. The fear of the unknown was worse than the huge amount of money he was going to have to pay. Today I thank him for the money he pays to me each month even though it is very much owed to me. He appreciates that.
Here is a chapter from that same book that relates to this subject.
Quote: CHAPTER 16 RESOLVE DISPUTES WITHOUT CONFLICT In every divorce, there are certain issues that need to be resolved. Decisions need to be made about the care and support of the children. How will the debts and the property be divided? How you go about resolving these issues is extremely important. It determines the type of divorce you have and it sets the stage for how your relationship will be in the future. Normally we handle these questions in a way that causes tremendous damage. Here’s what usually happens: Two people start out being in love. Then someone gets hurt. Then that person puts up his or her walls of protection and automatically withdraws and becomes critical of the other. Then the other person gets upset and becomes more judgmental toward the first person. Without knowing, the couple creates a cycle of conflict that goes on and on without either person ever noticing his or her role in the problem. The suffering that comes from this conflict is painful enough, but as soon as you add the threat of losing your children, your financial resources and your well-being, the situation quickly becomes much worse. Now the situation is threatening. This potential loss of well-being can be a serious threat to a person’s survival. It can make a person fight as though his or her life depends on it. The moment this happens, the cycle of conflict escalates dramatically. Often this conflict escalates into full scale war. People become so full of fear, upset, anger and resentment, that they do horrible things to each other. The hurt and destruction are enormous. Relationships are destroyed and financial resources are lost. The pain and suffering are often so great that people never recover. The sad part is that none of this conflict and suffering is necessary. 81 We believe that we have to fight to protect ourselves. We think that if we just fight hard enough, then somehow, everything will get resolved in our favor, but this doesn’t happen. In fact, the opposite is true. The more you fight someone, the more of a threat you become to that person. You then force that person to fight you even harder. This in turn puts you at even greater risk. Everything you do as an adversary creates more adversariness against you and makes your situation worse. Besides, when all the fighting is over, the issues that you fought so hard to win rarely get resolved the way you want them to. In most cases, the issues get resolved in some sort of compromise with no one being happy. The final solution is one that could have been worked out between the two of you with a lot less effort and a lot less expense. The key to resolving issues without conflict is to stop being a threat to the other person. Be committed to finding solutions that are fair and that work for everyone. When someone is committed to everyone’s well being, the adversarial process stops. How can you fight someone who’s on your side? As a matter of physics, adversariness requires two opposing forces. When one opposing force is removed, the adversariness disappears. It takes two people to be adversaries. It only takes one person to stop it. As soon as you draw sides against someone, you create an opposing force. So don’t draw sides. Keep your focus on finding solutions where everyone wins. This is the key to resolving issues without conflict. When you focus on everyone’s well-being, you create an environment of cooperation and understanding. You can then work together to find solutions, and when you look for solutions, you find them. This is how you resolve issues. You find solutions. This makes perfect sense, but as crazy as it may seem, in an adversarial situation, there is no focus on finding solutions. None. All the focus is on winning. 82 When there is no focus on resolving issues, they don’t get resolved. Trying to resolve issues in an adversarial situation is like playing tug-of-war. It takes forever to accomplish anything and every step is full of effort and struggle. In most contested cases, the people are so caught up in the fighting that they don’t even know what the issues are. It’s insane. So keep your focus on finding solutions. Look for the other person’s fears and concerns. Look beyond what the person is asking and find what the person needs. For example, the real issue behind most custody cases is the fear of losing the children. When you can insure easy access and broad visitation, the fear loses power, and so does the need to fight for custody. If the issue is child support or alimony, you can find what the court would do and agree to that. If you can’t come to an agreement, use the services of a mediator. Whatever the issue, there is a way to resolve it. Sometimes you find the answers quickly. Sometimes you don’t. Just make sure you don’t quit. Finding solutions that work for everyone also includes you. A commitment to everyone doesn’t mean that you have to give up your soul in the name of cooperation. You don’t have to be taken advantage of. Sometimes you need to be careful. Some people are dishonest. Sometimes you need to say “no.” Sometimes you may need to go to the judge. Do whatever it takes to have find solutions that work for both you. Just don’t lose sight of your commitment to everyone’s well-being. Even if the other person demands everything and refuses to cooperate, don’t draw sides. As difficult as your situation may seem at the moment, it can get much worse. Keep looking for solutions that work for everyone. The type of divorce and the type of relationship you have is determined by how you treat the other person and how you resolve your differences. 83 You can keep your pride, draw sides and go to town on each other; or you can be committed to a relationship where everyone comes out ahead. The one you choose will affect the entire rest of your life. 84 EXAMPLE Brad and Carol were in the process of divorce. Brad wanted to part as friends, but found it very difficult. Carol was very demanding. She wanted to receive unreasonably high child support, most of the property, and none of the debts. She didn’t care about Brad’s welfare, and when she didn’t get what she wanted, she became abusive. Brad’s, natural tendency was to fight. He wanted to declare war, pay her nothing, and seek custody of the children. This situation could have very easily turned into a nightmare. Fortunately, Brad was more interested in the welfare of the children and his future relationship with Carol than he was in being an adversary. He continued to work with Carol and do whatever he could to heal their relationship. He also said “no” whenever he felt it was appropriate. When Carol got mad, he let her be angry, and he still said “no.” He didn’t attack her or even draw sides against her. He kept looking for solutions that worked for both of them. Eventually their relationship began to heal, but Carol’s demands remained unrealistic. Instead of considering her demands as an attack, he respected her different opinion. He just didn’t agree. When it became apparent that they would never reach an agreement, Brad asked for the judge to decide. Even at the courthouse, Brad refused to say anything bad about Carol. When the trial ended, the judge did almost exactly what Brad had initially offered. Carol didn’t like it, but she no longer blamed Brad. Since they never became adversaries, there were no battle scars and no resentments. Once the divorce was over, the relationship healed quickly. Brad saw his children often and developed a close, supportive relationship with Carol. Brad’s refusal to draw sides against Carol avoided an almost certain war. He was able to say “no” without putting Carol on the defensive. He was able to resolve their issues in a way that allowed their relationship to heal. He kept the peace. 85 ACTION TO TAKE • Notice how your demands and actions have been threatening to the other person. Notice how you have forced that person to protect him or herself from you. • Refuse to draw sides against the other person. Don’t be adversarial. Don’t be a threat. • Look at the situation from the other person’s point of view. Look for that person’s fears and concerns. • Be committed to finding solutions that work for both of you. Keep looking for what it takes to resolve the issues. Don’t give up. Be willing to flow. Be flexible. Work together as much as you can. • If you can’t come to an agreement, use the services of a mediator. • Find solutions that work for you too. Be willing to say “no” when appropriate. 86
If you give me an email account, I will email the whole book to you. Same to you Velvet.
Ex and I were fighting over a business. When I sent him the my appraiser's valuation, he laughed. When his appraiser's valuation came back at almost the same number, he was furious. He sent me an email saying that business is worth nothing more than the inventory on the shelf and the money in the bank. I responded with, see you at mediation!
Also, you said that husband says he can't forgive himself, my ex used to say the same thing.
He stopped saying it when I truly, truly forgave him and also after the money was settled. Looking back, my ex would say that he couldn't forgive himself out of fear that I would never forgive him.
There came a point when I truly understood why he did what he did. What ex did was wrong, and we both know that. Now the past is never even mentioned. I used to think that ex and I were going to have to rehash ever single thing he did to me, or I wouldn't be able to truly forgive him. That just isn't necessary to do. We both look back at things and see how every single step of our journey was necessary. It is weird. Today I am grateful for what occurred. It made me a better person. It taught me how to forgive.
sam2004, We went yest. to court and nothing was accomplished we now have to go to mediation and that should be fun we could have had it done yest. but H would not agree so I don't know what to think it's like you said the unknown anyway her is my e-mail address baringerj@sbcglobal.net after the court I called H and told him if he wanted to come and get some more of his stuff he could and then we talked and it was ok but after a little while I told him i thought that I wanted to reconcile but now thats not what I want I just want it over so I can move on with my life and find the happiness that I deserve and I told him to enjoy his life and I hope he finds happiness like I have (by myself) and ofcourse he said I know you have a boyfriend and other hurtfull things and I hust said untill the lawyer tells me otherwise I'm still married. thnks for the advice I just want to be his friend if nothing else so my kids be happy to. How is your relationship now with you ex any chance of getting back together? Joa.
