I have been lurking here for some time now. I suppose there is no reason to post here other than to tell my story to someone who understands and get it off my chest. I am nearly fifty, a HD H and my wife is seven years younger than me and LD/ND. We've been married almost 20 years and have 2 pre-teen kids. Our sex life was good for the first couple of years but slowly started tapering off. After we had our first child 13 years ago is when things really accelerated downhill. We would ML maybe once a month or so, then once every other month, then twice a year until we bottomed out in 2000 when we didn't ML the entire year. I've tried to talk with her about it several times, especially over the last couple of years and usually things will get better for a month or two, but then we slip right back into the same pattern. Even when we do ML she really isn't into it at all. Her goal is to get it over with as soon as possible. My real problem is that I love her a lot. We enjoy each other's company and in every other way she is a perfect match for me. I'm also very sexually attracted to her as well. I've made several attempts over the years trying to romance her, but with no luck. About a year ago I considered leaving, but bought a copy of TSSM and decided against it. I tried to get her to read it but she is dead-set against it, and gets upset if I bring it up. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that things are never going to change. Currently we ML about once every three months. It's very clear even that is just a service to me. It's always unfulfilling and not really all that much fun. In our past discussions she has set the groundwork to keep ML at a minimum. She says she doesn't want to do it during the week because she is too tired from work. She usually goes to bed before the kids do anyway. She says she prefers either Saturday or Sunday morning before the kids wake up. But usually she sleeps in too and gets angry if I try to wake her up. By the time she gets up, has coffee, etc., we are now bordering on the time the kids wake up so we have to do it quick if we are going to do it at all. Most of the time she can sense I'm going to want to ML, and heads it off by being on her period, having a headache, or some other excuse. Most of the time I just drop it because I feel like a heel wanting to ML if she doesn't feel good. The last time we ML, she said she felt she had a "cold coming on" and didn't want to give it to me, so she didn't want to kiss. So we ML without kissing. She is careful not to be alone with me too. If the kids both want to spend the night somewhere, she will try to talk one of them into staying home. I could tell some pretty amusing stories about that, but this is long enough already. And so I've accepted it. My sex life is going to be very infrequent for the rest of my life, and even when we ML it's going to be boring and unfulfilling. Thus the username "Game_Over".
Hi...read your post and my first question to you is this. What have you tried that makes her take you seriously? So far, no offense meant here, what I've read that you've done....is pretty much the same type stuff others have done that have come here. What you aren't doing is setting boundaries/consequences for her to take you seriously.
What it appears to me she's done when you've tried to talk about this in the past is discount your needs. I'm suspecting that you two are lacking the EC (emotional connection) that you've probably read many of us talk about on here. When that EC is missing, the other person will go through he!! & back to avoid intimate contact.
Have you told her you were thinking about leaving at one point? If not, why?
Wow! Game-Over... I can equate! I don't know if I should feel supported in the fact that there are others out there that are in the exact some place that I am, or scared to death with the idea that it is possible that my situation will only get worse the longer we are married. You have been dealing with this for, what, 20 years and I have only been through 8.
After reading advice on this board for awhile, I am looking into the boundary ideas that are presented and thnking about ways to restore my power in the relationship without it looking like I am suddenly going from "Mr Accomodating/Willing Servent" to "A-hole jerk". My wife is not willing to go to counseling and has made a large scale claim that if I continue to try to get her to go, she will leave. She'd rather face life alone than see a MC.. (And I am supposed to accept and support this, although it makes no sense to me...), but I go and see a counselor myself and bring up topics I hear about on the board to him to help me figure out how they can apply to my situation.
Welcome to the board. I have learned that there are not a lot of easy answers out there for couples dealing with the SSM issues, especially when one wants to work on the problem, and to the other.. there is no problem, therefor nothing to solve. ("I just don't like sex, why can't you just learn to accept that") But I have also learned that by looking at what others are going through and reading posts from some members of the board that tell it straight, don't hold back and can really let you have it sometimes.. you can learn a lot about yourself.. Some posts can be hard to read, some may have you analyzing yourself for days, but in the end hopefully you will find some ways to improve your situation.
Game_Over I have have experienced some of the things you have but to a lesser extent.
My advice is to read the books but don't expet your W to change. You can learn some skills from the books and this forum but that does not mean your W will change anything.
The most sucess I have had is to set boundaries. Decide what is anoying but you might be able to live with and what is a deal breaker.
The things that are deal breakers, you have to talk about with your W in a caring but mater of fact way. No threats, just say what "YOU", not her, will not be able to live without.
Also does your W tell you the brutal truth as to why she feels so little sexually for/with you? It might really be about you but I would guess it is more about her, her past, or some religious or childhood thoughts. I really think some people think sex is mostly just for making babies while others think sex is almost the biblical milk and honey of life.
I think one common mistake is spouses are not skilled in bringing up touchy subjects and are also afraid to hurt the other persons feelings. It is a delicate balance to say what you need from a relationship without the other person or both people taking it too personally or as an atack.
Does DB work? Yes with some people and to an extent with less flexable people. The first thing is not to apear needy and to have a confident attitude. No doormat stuff either. If there is something either one of you is uncomfortable with, make a deal with the SO to try it for 7, 14, 28 days and if they still don't like it, go back to the old way. It is easier to try things knowing it is not carved in stone.
The main help from this forum and the books would be for you to work on yourself. Like your W, my W won't read anything either. Not a good sign my friend.
Ask your W what is wrong with books in general. First excuse is usually she will say she no time so ask/get past that objection. Michelle W Davis, the site owner and book writer, has some CD' and DVD that can be playes in the car (CD audio) and I think some posters have the DVD videos. Both formats are usually something to get past the "no time" objection.
My W/BB thinks some books about relationships are more about guys getting sex than what's on the cover's title. It's kind of like "guys just want sex and someone will write a book trying to convince women to have sex with their H more often.
So if your W does read the book, she might find the parts she thinks are important to her and prove that sex is not the issue in your marriage , or find something else to prove that she is right and most of the marrital problems are yours. I am not trying to discourage you, just preparing you for objections so you can get past some of the typical objections quicker.
What the book can do for couples is to bring up topics to talk about, use a word or book concept in a simmilar manner ( similarly shared meaning) and who knows what else will help or be a problem.
Many people think guys don't read much. Well Game_Over, some women don't read much or only read a certain type of book/magazine.
Some women think guys only want sex and can go without the EC. Well there is something refered to as a "Bell Curve" and some of us guys and some women each fits on the opposite sides of the typical male/female myth bell curve.
Hi or low drive is not the problem, it is the miss match between two people.
Also know some women don't like sex/ML if emotions are involved. That is, sex with their current husband. Nothing wrong with the guy, it's just not that exciting to the W. Learning that was a big surprise to me. I read it on this and other forums and the women that posted said they did not fully understand why they felt that way either. So don't count your W's sex drive out totally. Different things turn on different people.
Also check out www.maiiiagebuilders.com. There are some questionaires that help guide a couple to be more open with each other and there are things some people would only think about after it is too late to save the M.
Sorry Game_Over, welcome to the forum. It is a good place to be and sorry you and the misses are at odds. BTDT. Lots of good people here, so stick around for the journey called life and marriage.
GameMan, I want to give you a book recommendation that helped me tremendously. It's called Passionate Marriage by David Schnarch. I too had said a lot of things over the years but I always kinda stopped short, kwim? I was not willing to go for the jugular and therefore my words and my meaning was so diluted that he never had a clue how much it was tearing me up. Add in the fact that I am, and have been ever since I've known him, madly in love with him and you have a person who saw and felt my love and, welp, that's really all he needed to know.
Passionate marriage gave me the tools to learn how to converse in a way that GOT through to him. It was hard to get used to being such a b*tch about how I phrased my words...after all, this was supposed to be a topic that centered around desire and love and it felt counterintuitive. But it worked!
I think you've done everything right except for really getting harsh with her. Unfortunately it will probably require you losing the MrNiceGuy role and just laying it out. ALL of it.
Take a look around this site--it's populated with people who had NO idea their marriage was going down the tubes. Your wife is not unique in this regard.
But it's up to you to clue her in. No sugarcoating!
So don't count your W's sex drive out totally. Different things turn on different people. 