But you drive my point home here. I do not wish for us to go back to the way we were living before. I have told H. this and I even reiterated this last night.
I feel my point is being misunderstood. IMO, what I wrote about does not drive your point home at all. Reiterating "if we got back together then this or that would be different" is seen as pursuit by him. I understand that he said he's "listening"; I posted why he can listen, yet why this approach will likely not be effective.
"Reiterating" still fails to deliver the results. Doing the same thing over and over and yet expecting results to be different. You believe there is power in your message. But think of why people say things like, "It's falling on deaf ears" and "If I've told you a million times..." and "He/She just doesn't listen". It's because reiteration does NOT work.
When something doesn't work, it's time to try something different.
Hope, I've been there, done that. I also see it time and time again in other peoples' threads that I've read for almost two years now, and I see it in yours.
Now let me jump in here about GAL and backing off. Both are fine behaviors, and I have no problem with them. I don't see how these will help H. see any changes in the circumstances that were driving him away.
Think about what's attractive about meeting someone new. H is out searching for yet OW, someone new. You're not someone new. However, if your life transforms because of the new things you get involved in, and you make changes in your approach, you become like someone new and attractive.
Backing off gets rid of the pressure you're continually giving him. If you keep trying to rail him in, he's got something to fight against; if you take that out of the picture, he's freer to feel comfortable around you and not have that wall.
Foremost though, GAL and backing off is to improve your life and emotional health.
The changes you'd like to show him are a different issue than GAL and backing off, though intertwined with that, but I'll touch on that aspect of it later in this post.
Let me share my personal experience here, as an illustration, because your sitch is very similar to mine.
My breakup occurred about 1 year, 10 months ago. At first, I did the typical LBS stuff, just like you. Everytime I did that, I heard the same things: "I'm sorry, I'm just not there", "I'm not coming back", "Please don't call me". I also got mixed messages: "The flowers, the cards, that you drove me to my doctor's appointment the other day, all this isn't going unnoticed", "Just continue becoming this sweet, wonderful person you are". But then I also got: "I just don't know what to say to you anymore. I don't want to give you false hope".
She's been living with her old boyfriend since May of '04. Living with him 130 miles away from me.
I did a major backslide around Christmas of '04 and that made me ever so determined to get on track, and stop the backslides and pursuit, and climb out of this hole for myself, and if I ever expected to see any improvement in my sitch at all.
Since January of '05, I've never backslid once in front of her. I had a couple of misty moments in front of her last Spring where I broke down, and that didn't help me or her, and I had to strengthen my resolve.
I joined a photography club, started singing publicly again, and tried dating and keeping myself occupied, and was trying to move forward while keeping the door open. My thought was that I don't know if and when her relationship would fizzle, but that when and if it did, I needed to be in a better place, period.
In Fall of '05, I slipped into acting, and that's been a great thing for me, personally. It was part of GAL, keeping myself open to new experiences. Mind you, a gal friend in late '04 suggested it to me as that's what her ex had done to create activities and new social networks for himself, and I expressed at the time that it sounded like a good idea, but felt I'd probably suck at it. Well, it turned out that I don't suck at it at all.
All along, I've fed the ex (and we got divorced last year) little glimpses of this new life. Even before the acting thing, she started expressing how my life was interesting and hers wasn't. My life was becoming attractive to her, I changed the circumstances.
The acting stuff really has attracted her as she sees me as very happy and contented and adored by others doing this (I've been referred lately to a producer of a new TV sitcom and a producer for a new indie movie by an actress I performed with recently who herself will be appearing in "The Sopranos" this upcoming season - can you imagine? Who would've thunk?), and people are attracted to confident happy people who have their own lives. Now she says she's living vicariously through me, ha, ha.
In the meantime, I don't know what's going on with her journey, but she's been emotional lately, she reports, and though things are OK she says, it's been rocky - and she says she's been doing some personal reflection lately. Maybe she's finally "awakening".
She's stated several times to me lately that she no longer remembers the pain, but reflects on our good times. That she misses me. That sometimes she feels she doesn't even know me anymore, that I appear so different from the man she spent years with; that she feels I'm not capable anymore of causing her, or anyone, that pain she felt I caused her back when. Time, Hope, can dissipate the WASs negative feelings. In that time, my changes have become consistent and are seen by her in my interactions with her and with others. Probably in ways I can't even imagine.
She sees me as someone new, Hope. And whatever's going on with her, time has been doing its job.
Her "awakening" may in part be due to how she sees that I wasn't the person she thought I was, how her happiness has not come from her change of partners.
We had a phone conversation the other day, surprise, surprise, where she told me all this. We were on the phone for a while and she said she needed to get off the phone as she had some orders to get out to the post office, but expressed her feeling that she did not want to get off the phone - and she didn't get off the phone. Previous calls, she always did. I ended the call for her. She asked to meet me for lunch for the very next day, though I declined because of other obligations.
Get the picture?
In order to address those circumstances, he and I need to talk about them, we need to interact in a different way where they are concerned. It requires that I do talk to him about these things, and then ask for a chance to implement them.
I disagree. Just go ahead, with ACTIONS, not words, as if you've already been given that chance. Ask him for the chance and likely he's going to say, "I'm not coming back".
If we are to change the way we interact, it requires two people participating.
But you're the only willing participant. So, if you wish things to change, it's up to you to change yourself, and only yourself, because that's the only person you can change. You change the way you interact first, then maybe H changes as a result of your lead. That's all about your ACTIONS again, not your words or reasonings to him.
He just has to have a little faith that if he gives it a try, it really will be different now.
Maybe things would be different, but you're looking for him to put that faith and effort into it, and he's not at that point right now.
You are right, I did want him to have this alone time to reflect. I knew there had been a shift when he began to call me to talk about little things during the day.
Considering that this seeming shift occurred right after he spoke of separation, my hunch is it's more likely due to the freedom he senses from thinking about separation than anything else. He gave himself that sense of freedom, less pressure and see how he's reacting to that? I know this isn't what you're looking for as his basis for now calling you about the little things.
The sense I got last night is that he's just spending his free time looking for o.w. #2, which makes me very sad.
He's still looking outside of himself and towards OPs as "The Answer". That's where he's at. Detach yourself from that so that you don't create sad feelings for yourself.
But others can't really be implemented unless he came back into a R. with me. We need to have that level of interaction before he could see these changes.
Hope, you're placing the horse before the cart. before you can work on your issues together, the WAS has to be re-attracted and want back into the relationship.
I can't show him that things would be different in our R. if there is no interaction (more than phone calls I mean) between us.
Hope, my ex lives 130 miles away, and she sees the changes from that distance. There will be opportunities for interaction, and with those contacts is how they will see the changes. You're offering him to see the changes dependent on his agreeing to work with you on what would change... you're placing barriers/requirements up against his being freely able to interact with you comfortably, and also you're pitching the proposed changes to him contingent on his return, ("if we got back together then the changes would take effect"), which has the effect of not seeming genuine, merely contingent. It can't be like that.
NYS, Sassy and Imdi, You all have put so much time and support into my situation, and I wanted to again express my thanks. I’ve read all your posts through more than once and don’t think your words are not sinking in. I know I have a lot of work to do before this situation turns around.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Now I will post my update; I spoke w/H. this afternoon.
(warning: the following contains selfish WAS mind speak of an extreme nature)
H. was getting ready to head out to work. A little small talk at first. Then I began: Me: “I wanted to tell you that I understand and support your decision not to come back home right now. I also realize I contributed to some of the things that made you unhappy and I am sorry you felt that way. I also know that I understand that the circumstances of our daily life together would have to change if we could ever be together in the future, and I am working on these changes.” He listened, and said something about us going in different directions. His life was moving in a different direction than mine. I validated, and asked him if he could tell me more. He said how he saw me as wanting to fix our R., but he was trying to pick up the pieces and move on. He did make mention of him feeling like he could not get past what he did. More discussion, and he said that right now he didn’t want a serious relationship, with anybody. I said, “So what you’re saying is that you just want to be alone, live a single lifestyle, and not be serious with anyone?” He said, “Right.” And I said, “And to come back home right now would be to get back into a serious relationship, which you don’t want right now.” He said, “Right.” Ok. I told him I understood this and respected his wishes. But I would like to keep in touch with him and perhaps down the road, as he saw more changes for the better between us, he would be open to seeing how things could go. He said, “Oh, down the road, yeah.” He said this in a tone that indicated this was obvious to him. I told him I missed his friendship; he said that he calls me to talk, and see how things are going, etc. I think he was trying to say he felt the same, but it must be hard for him, because too much can make him think he’s leading me on. We talked a little longer, and I was really great at validating today; no matter what he said I told him I understood his feelings, and I respected his choices. To sum it up, this is primarily what my H. would like (and he outright agreed I understood him correctly): H. doesn’t want to come back right now. He wants to live a single lifestyle; no serious relationships with anyone. Meanwhile, he still wants a connection with me, just not a commitment. However, he is very open to slowly letting the changes in our R. unfold, and believes it’s possible that down the road this could be what he wants. He told me he does still care about me. He doesn’t want to sell the house because I think he feels he might be back someday…but that could take a while.
And so this is where we’re at. And his words from Jan. come back to me, when he told me that what he was looking for in a R. right now didn’t require a lot of trust. This is horrid to type, but I think he just wants to screw around. He is rebelling and revolting and more reason why I feel he is going through some kind of crisis.
So my choices are to throw in the towel on him and move on 100%, or, move on as much as possible while still being legally married to a man in crisis mode, because I won’t date anyone if we stay married and live apart for a while. I have a lot of friends, but this could still be a very lonely time for me.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Well, no doubt he likely feels less pressure from you, and better understood. Good.
H. doesn't want to come back right now. He wants to live a single lifestyle; no serious relationships with anyone. Meanwhile, he still wants a connection with me, just not a commitment. However, he is very open to slowly letting the changes in our R. unfold, and believes it's possible that down the road this could be what he wants. He told me he does still care about me. He doesn't want to sell the house because I think he feels he might be back someday - but that could take a while.
The only things I'd tweak about your summary is changing "he is very open to slowly letting the changes in our R. unfold, and believes it's possible that down the road this could be what he wants." which is really more about your hopes and wishes; looking over your post, it's what you expressed, not him, and it's what you've implied from his words, "Oh, down the road, yeah". And the thing about you assuming what he's thinking about concerning the sale of the house, I'd get rid of that thought too. All assumptions based on what YOU want to have happen.
"I told him I understood this and respected his wishes. But I would like to keep in touch with him and perhaps down the road, as he saw more changes for the better between us, he would be open to seeing how things could go" is still pursuing R talk, hun, but overall, ya done good.
Truth is, nobody knows what will happen in the future.
And his words from Jan. come back to me... I think he just wants to screw around.
Don't think about it. it won't change anything and you'll make yourself feel terrible. If that's what he's doing, he may find it causes more headaches than not.
So my choices are to throw in the towel on him and move on 100%, or, move on as much as possible while still being legally married to a man in crisis mode
looking over your post, it's what you expressed, not him, Actually, I didn't post the last part of our conversation word for word; I left about 5 min. of it out and just typed the summary. I was very careful to make sure I fully understood where he is at, so that I could at least let my mind rest and not wonder so much. We did discuss letting the changes unfold, and he said this is what he would like as well. However, I am aware this doesn't mean he's promising anything. but overall, ya done good Why, thank you. Oh, and I am quite aware I was having a R. talk. I didn't care. I went selfish. Sorry, but I needed to know! If that's what he's doing, he may find it causes more headaches than not. I sure hope you are right, NYS. I can't see any good coming from it, either. What's the difference between these two options? As I said, I have a lot of friends and family to do things with, but if I am legally married I won't date. So if I choose to wait it out for a while, I'm not going to be pursuing any new R's with any men. So I won't be moving on in that respect. Let's be honest; we all want someone to hold, to love, to share time with. I still want that person to be H. which is why I'm here.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
He's not unhappy with you, he's unhappy with himself!!! He doesn't know what to do, think or feel. He continues to work against all the love that you have in your heart for him. He has done several things on several occasions to help push you away from him. But dammit woman, you have the love of a thousand women for this man, don't think for a minute he doesn't know that. He just doesn't feel worthy, and to be quite honest, personally I am wondering just HOW worthy he is of you!! He's got one of the most loving women in the world, waiting for him...he's putting her through absolute freaking hell...hmmm. can I just go smack him real quick and be done with it? Okay, I know, I know that won't do anything...but oh well...
Sassy, Thanks for this. You're so sweet, really. I'd like to smack him a few times, too. The line forms on the right! The last thing I want is for H. to feel unworthy, but I can see your point, and how he might. He did say something today on the phone about HIM not being able to get past what happened (he's talking about the cheating here). It doesn't matter if I can put it behind me; right now, I guess he can't. And there is still something inside of him telling him he needs to live like this right now. I think back to him saying to me, "Sure, I could come back home and things would be fine for a while, but in a few months I'm afraid I'd be right back out there again." Now, I used to think he meant because he thought things would be the same between us, nothing for the better. But now I understand what he meant; he actually needs to live like this; something is driving him. Fear? Maybe; I don't understand it very well, but I'm trying to because something very bad is happening to the man that I love and it is ruining his life.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Sometimes, i feel so frustrated within myself b/c there is so much i want to give and show my H, but i don't have the chance. I guess the thing is to make the most out of your interactions. Right now, you are fighting him on his decision to not come back. What if you were to agree? That would be different for you, right? Yes, i know you don't want him to interpret that as you not wanting him back. Thing is, we can't control how they think or what they do. I don't know if any of this is making sense. It is, Imdi. Thank you very much. I did validate his choice not to come back when we spoke today. I even told him I support it. I hope that in some way, what I said made H. feel a little bit better.
I just want to say out loud that it is SO very hard to emotionally detach from a person that you are still in love with. There, I said it.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
I just want to say out loud that it is SO very hard to emotionally detach from a person that you are still in love with. There, I said it.
Hmmm. Yet 'emotional detachment' doesn't have anything to do with loving someone. What detachment means is to let go of reactions to events and actions over which you have no control anyway. It's the converse of being so dependent on another that one's lost one's self.
Hey hope- Just checking in with you tonight. I don't feel like i can give you any good feedback, as i am pretty much a wreck right now. But, just wanted to let you know i was here for you, offering you support. Have a good night.
