Hi, and thanks. I appreciate your advice. As I said, I guess I feel like I should move now, take action, while he isn’t yet with another o.w. and before he gets his own apt. Regarding the emotional investment, I don’t know what to say about this. H. had convinced me he was VERY invested. He wanted to come back around Thanks. but he couldn’t because of his intense feelings for o.w. He said, “I can’t come back while I have a girlfriend.” And when they split up in Dec. he went through a terrible withdrawal period. So, there were emotions that were intense at one point. As I said, whatever has soured their R., I have no idea but I wish I did.
I hate how he has convinced himself that being with me = being so unhappy. I am aware of the problems, and I know that I am a stronger, better person because of all this. His attitude is to just move on; leave the mistakes in the past and don’t think about it. And this attitude makes me feel very devalued as his wife. Wasn’t I worth working on the marriage for? He doesn’t seem to be afraid of losing me, which makes me feel that he doesn’t think I’m very desirable as a person to be with, spend time with and create a R. with. It seems he’s on the search now for someone better.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Hey hope- I see your point re: your H's emotional investment in his R with ow. But, think about it...how invested could he be if he attempted to leave her at least 2 times, and is now out there looking for someone else. I don't know, thats just my opinion, but i haven't been there during his conversations with you about her.
And this attitude makes me feel very devalued as his wife. Wasn’t I worth working on the marriage for? He doesn’t seem to be afraid of losing me, which makes me feel that he doesn’t think I’m very desirable as a person to be with, spend time with and create a R. with.
Jesus, i said almost the same thing to my H last night. I asked him, wasn't i worth it...wasn't i enough...b/c i certainly didn't feel that way. He reassured me that i was enough and that i am wonderful, yada yada. So, i completely know how you feel. But, try to remember that this isn't really about us. Its about some fantasy that they are chasing. For whatever reason, they became restless. It could be for a million reasons, and we will probably never know them, or understand them. But, you are a wonderful person. Just because your H might be blinded to it doesn't mean it isn't true. They have their blinders on. And for some reason, they want to focus on the negative. I think it is so they can justify their behaviors and their decision to leave. They are trying to convince themselves that they are doing the right thing. But, i think, somewhere deep inside they know that they are wrong.
I know how easy it is to tie up our own self-worth in with how others feel about us. But, that isn't the healthiest thing to do. I guess this is where the DBing stuff is supposed to kick in...how we are supposed to be doing it for ourselves. Yeah, that sounds great, but we started off doing it in order to get our H's back. Like i said last night, i feel like all the changes i made aren't really worth it if i have no one to share it with.
This is going to take time...a lot of time. And it is going to hurt like hell. But, i do believe that we will be stronger in the end.
Sorry for rambling. I just know how you feel, and i know how bad it sucks. Hang in there. Remember, we are in this together!
He said, "Yes. And I was unhappy for years." (he's still claiming this even though it did not show for years)
It may not have been apparent to you, or he may have buried it, but let's not negate that he feels he was unhappy for years, which is very valid and real for him.
I specifically mentioned some things that I felt would be important for the both of us if we were going to give things a try.
Yet, right now, he's really not interested in "giving it a try". He listened to you, and he may have liked some of the things you proposed, but it's not your words that will influence him back. he has no assurance that things wouldn't go back to being the same; he also may feel that you haven't made all the changes he'd like; he may also think that you're just doing this so that he'll come back; and he's not yet finished his little quest to find out "what's out there".
Trying to show H. that I've worked on myself and made positive changes doesn't even seem to register with him.
What are these changes you speak of? Inquiring minds want to know.
I read in your posts the same essence I've read since the start, that you pursue and that you focus on him and assume a lot of what he's thinking and feeling. You also still have expectations ("I am disappointed that he did not call to apologize or that the things he did were what was bothering him"). And you're therefore still getting the same results: everytime time you pursue, he says, "I'm not coming back". You're still trying to influence your H with reason, and that doesn't work.
Instead of feeding him thoughts to reason on, you have to change the circumstances in order for him to do a double take and influence him back.
You change the circumstances by GAL and backing off. In time, and time is the key word here, you're presenting a new person to the WAS, a person that attracts them. In time, they may also find that the answer they were seeking doesn't exist in reality as much as it exists in their imagination, and it may make them think.
If you are making changes, changes take time to root and become second nature. And they take time to be seen by the WAS as real, genuine, consistent and likely to be permanent. You're not there yet. You're still clinging on and trying to feed him reasons to reconsider (which constitutes pursuit).
Pursuit is an ineffective way to try and 'save" a relationship, if you haven't yet figured that out. Not only does it "push" the partner away, but it causes you emotional stress. Your H senses the pursuit as trying to rail him in and can feel pushed into a corner, and so, react by seeking more ways to flee. And so he tells you over and over again "I'm not coming back", because he senses your pursuit. All your reasoning to him, though seeming logical and balanced to you, is all seen by him as you asking for a second chance. And in return, he's going to discourage you from thinking it has any effect, and that will just throw you into the dumps. And over and over and over again.
I am not perfect believe me, but I just can't see what awful, terrible things happened that I caused that have caused memories that keep him from trying. If anything, it's the lying and cheating that went on by HIM that are the bad memories.
Well, you each have your story to tell. Maybe the thing to do is to ask him what he deemed made him so unhappy in the relationship. If you do that, you can't be defensive, rationalize it away, get emotional or turn it into a talk about coming back. If he talks, then it's because you've told him you want to hear it, so just listen and take notes. Whether his hurts are real or imagined, they're hurts. Perhaps a way of getting that talk started is to approach it by saying something like, "I know I played a part in making you unhappy, and I'd like to know what that was, because I don't want to repeat the same mistakes again, whether it's with you if you ever decided to come back, or someone new. Can you help me with that?"
I'm going to haphazard a guess that he didn't feel "free" in the relationship. Start there.
I feel like I need to act now, do something, before he actually gets his own apt. or hooks up with another o.w. This feels like a window of opportunity.
Well, you did act on it.
Most times, we feel we need to "do something". Sometimes it's helpful if we do (if we do the right some thing), but many times it's just a feeling, we needn't do anything. Especially since it's out of our control anyway, it has to do with the WAS and what they feel they need to do, not us. Point in fact is that if this was a window of opportunity, he sure didn't make any sounds of coming back or reconsidering, so it's safe to say that there isn't a window of opportunity here regarding that. I'd think the opportunity that's present is one of permitting contact time since there isn't an OW to occupy his leisure time right now. So, make the best use of the contact time.
I'm not suggesting that you increase the contacts or initiate the contacts, OK? Look at it this way: H's going to have some alone time now maybe, and it's that being alone that may work on him most effectively. This is what you wanted to see happen some time ago, isn't it? Alone time where now his thoughts start to reflect inward possibly. Well, don't you disturb that process now! Give him space now so that his thoughts reflect, let his loneliness compel him to call you. get back on that track and don't return every call, take a few hours or days to return the ones you do return, don't pursue, GAL, detach (go out to some comedy clubs and laugh it up a bit, volunteer somewhere, find your center... you've become too dependent on him, as I see your sense of worth are based on him, which may also be a determining factor of why you want him back so), when he comes over to visit, be in the process of dressing up to go out and not have time for him all the time... let him feel his aloneness to the max, let him feel he doesn't have OW, he doesn't have you. I think THAT's what your opportunity is right at this moment.
You may or may not see the results you want, or in the time factor you'd like to see them, so now is also a good opportunity for you to practice detachment, seek out more interests in your own life, and stop this merry-go-round you're on.
And this attitude makes me feel very devalued as his wife. Wasn't I worth working on the marriage for? He doesn't seem to be afraid of losing me, which makes me feel that he doesn't think I'm very desirable as a person to be with, spend time with and create a R. with. It seems he's on the search now for someone better.
Sweetie, what he's done and what he's doing is not a value judgment about you. It's ALL about him. All you did was whatever behaviors influenced him in the past, how he decided to work that out is all about him. Heck, not one of us is wonderful 24/7 and I often wonder how anyone is worthy enough to be in a relationship... but we are, some more than others, and some plain aren't, but whatever part you played, it didn't make you a bad person. The behaviors are the things to change. Continue to focus on that, not on this assumed rejection. He's not rejecting you, really, though you feel that way. He's rejected the stuff he didn't like that he associates with you (which is why I'm telling you one changes the *circumstances* in re-attracting a WAS). It's good that he's finally done that, in the sense that now the problems that were in the relationship can be finally exposed, and that can be very constructive if you take that opportunity (it's the way he went about it is that's destructive, but that's the part that's all about him).
NYS, Thanks for posting. I certainly can understand how my H. might think about coming back and remember how he didn’t like the circumstances of our life, and thus concludes he doesn’t want to come back. But you drive my point home here. I do not wish for us to go back to the way we were living before. I have told H. this and I even reiterated this last night. To give you an example I told H. that even if we got back together, I felt that we should still separate our finances. That way, he would feel more in control of his own money, etc. It was during this that he said, “Ok…I’m listening…” I felt that I had touched upon something that might make him think twice. I also told him I was sorry if he had been uncomfortable with the way we were handling that before and it had not been my intention to make him feel controlled. Now let me jump in here about GAL and backing off. Both are fine behaviors, and I have no problem with them. I don’t see how these will help H. see any changes in the circumstances that were driving him away. In order to address those circumstances, he and I need to talk about them, we need to interact in a different way where they are concerned. It requires that I do talk to him about these things, and then ask for a chance to implement them. If we are to change the way we interact, it requires two people participating. He just has to have a little faith that if he gives it a try, it really will be different now. You are right, I did want him to have this alone time to reflect. I knew there had been a shift when he began to call me to talk about little things during the day. I do hope with o.w. out of the picture (or at least on the way out), maybe he would do some thinking. The sense I got last night is that he’s just spending his free time looking for o.w. #2, which makes me very sad. Again, I want to change the circumstances, but some of those that H. didn’t like are such that we need to interact in order for these situations to present themselves and allow me to show H. the differences. I hope I’m explaining this correctly; I know what I’m trying to say, but I might not be saying it right.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Hope, I think that NYS meant by GAL and backing off is that you turn the focus on you and moving forward in your life. H is flip flopping all over the place. He thinks he's losing you and all of a sudden he's back at the house. He has to keep his leash on you. When he feels he has you where he wants you, then he feels it it safe for him to back off again and go about leading his miserable little life, reaching out to you and feeding you crumbs.
I'll be honest here honey, I'm noticing that your moods and posts lately are really dependent upon your communication with him. If he calls and if the calls are good, then you are happy if not then you appear to be in a backslide situation. It's not healthy sweetheart and I do care about you...right now I'll be honest, it's breaking my heart to see you like this.
All we want here is to see you strong and happy. Not dependent on him for anything emotionally. To find the inner strength that we ALL know you have in you. I will not deny you for a minute that this is not the most painful experience you nor anyone else on here will ever have gone through. But it's all in how you take it from here.
You are putting so much focus and energy on him, what he's doing and what he's thinking. What about you? Yes you want him back, you love him you want a do-over...I am glad to hear that you are respective of his wishes to work things through on his own, but you MUST follow through with his wish and drop the rope and let him go. Chuck the DB coach explained the drop the rope and letting him come back to me on his own time/terms, the following way. If I was to end his R with ow and he came back, it would be under false pretences, not because he wanted to or he had made the decision on his own. Once again, it would have been me making a decision for him. It would/could possibly be something that he would hold over me forever. I only came back because...blah blah...not because he wanted to work things out. Also, if things did not work out between us, again he could go running back to ow and say "See, told you, I tried, nothing has changed."
Your greatest fear Hope, is the same fear I had...losing him and the life you had together...but in reality you have and you have survived it.
Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly that it takes two to work on things, an R/M whatever it may be. But remember right now, this is not what he wants. He wants to be alone. For whatever reason unknown to us, he just doesn't want it. He's afraid of something...he has to work through these fears on his own. You can be there as a comforting friend to give him reassurance but in all of your interactions I still see you trying to pull him back into the R.
You don't really know if ow! is gone from the picture. He can say whatever he wants and instead of looking out for Hope and her needs you're already mentioning him searching for ow2. It's not about the ow, it's about him and him finding his way through this world babe. He's just grabbing the nearest bandaid to help him cover his wounds instead of licking them and letting them heal on their own.
Hi. I will admit you are completely right that my emotions tend to flux depending on what H. is doing. I know it and you know it. I’m trying to do better but it’s very hard. You view the situation as H. wanting to be alone. I guess I see it as the total opposite: he wants to find the next o.w. and try her on for size, so to speak. Anyone but me. I think he wants a R. but just not with me, because he remembers being unhappy with me. And here again is the problem: I can’t show him that things would be different in our R. if there is no interaction (more than phone calls I mean) between us. We can go ahead and separate our finances as I suggested, and hopefully this will help to show him I recognize he felt out of control in this area; I want that to change. It’s one of many things. But others can’t really be implemented unless he came back into a R. with me. We need to have that level of interaction before he could see these changes. He is being stubborn and making me feel as though our marriage is of no value to him.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Okay. But as of this VERY moment, your M is of no value. But Hope that doesn't mean that won't change in 5 minutes, 1 hour or a week or year from now. We are dealing with what we have right now, today. Today it's not what he wants. You need to give him what he wants. That is what they call unconditional love. Even though it hurts us, to let them go is the greatest show of our love for them that we can possible give. It's the giving of ourselves, letting go of our wants and desires in the hope that perhaps one day they will find their way back to us, and be willing to accept that we may not be the one for them.
I understand your thought process here, if you go dark then he can't see what the changes that you are ready to put into place for him to come back. What are those changes. You keep mentioning the financial issues, what about personal issues. Or was it always about the money for him? However, in looking at the big picture from a healthy standpoint, again expecting the worst, hoping for the best, what happens Hope if he doesn't come home? How have you moved forward in your life to prepare you for this...and I am not talking about the financial aspects? I remember a few months back, a karate class or something like that. Did you ever sign up? I know you've bought a few trinkets for your self, but forget the materialistic stuff...emotionally what have you done to move forward with your life in case he doesn't come home? He's in no shape to come home, I think we can both agree on this. How are you stronger for him now so that you can be for him when/if he does come home?
He's not unhappy with you, he's unhappy with himself!!! He doesn't know what to do, think or feel. He continues to work against all the love that you have in your heart for him. He has done several things on several occasions to help push you away from him. But dammit woman, you have the love of a thousand women for this man, don't think for a minute he doesn't know that. He just doesn't feel worthy, and to be quite honest, personally I am wondering just HOW worthy he is of you!! He's got one of the most loving women in the world, waiting for him...he's putting her through absolute freaking hell...hmmm. can I just go smack him real quick and be done with it? Okay, I know, I know that won't do anything...but oh well...
Hope- I don't really have an advice on this for you. But, i will say that i feel the same way. Last night, while talking with my H, i was thinking "well, how can he see that things will be different if he doesn't even try." He does acknowledge noticing some things that have changed, but i am not sure how. I mean, does he just see it in what i say, or how i say it, or how i act when i am with him? I don't know the answer. I understand your frustration over this. And i can understand what NYS and Sassy are saying. But, it is hard to focus on us when what we want is our H's back. Like i said, my changes don't feel worth it if he isn't around to see them. Yes, they could benefit us in the future, but right now we can't imagine that future without our H's. Sometimes, i feel so frustrated within myself b/c there is so much i want to give and show my H, but i don't have the chance. I guess the thing is to make the most out of your interactions. Right now, you are fighting him on his decision to not come back. What if you were to agree? That would be different for you, right? Yes, i know you don't want him to interpret that as you not wanting him back. Thing is, we can't control how they think or what they do. I don't know if any of this is making sense. I just feel so emotionally exhausted today. I think you and i both have to try to let go a little bit more and see what happens. Does us trying to convince our H's to give us another chance ever work? No, it doesn't. So, we have to do something different, as hard as that is. I didn't want to sign those papers last night to put the house up for sale, but i did it, without too much of a fight. Yes, there was plenty of discussion afterwards, and i know there shouldn't have been, but oh well. It is so hard for me to let go b/c i feel like i have no control over anything, so i try to hold on as tight as possible in order to have that control. Thing is, i don't.
Anyway, i don't want to hijack. Just wanted to tell you i understood. If i can figure out a way to deal with this, you'll be the first to know.
