The checked comment is just a slang, dont think anything of it.
AmyC has a valid point. I guess the real thing is to whatch actions and listen to what your WAS is really saying. If you believe nothing of what you hear and 50% of what she does then it amazing what is really going on.
Shark
P.S. I hope I have the ability to back off and let my wife come to me as I still think needs to happen more in your situation Frank.
Quote: I was wondering, could you remind me exactly what has been done to get this "divorce" moving forward?
Other than saying "we're getting divorced", what steps have been taken?
This answer in and of itself will tell you all you need to know...
She bought a book on divorce and said she was 'ready' to move forward last couples counseling. C talked her out of doing anything right now. She probably not even read the book yet.
And as Grasshopper (and my counselor sort of said) she uses D as a 'get out of jail free' card.
I was a bit thrown by her comment on 'choosing men poorly for relationships' because it implied she needed to make MORE attempts at being with other men. But it could also mean she thinks that I could be a poor choice and she doesn't trust herself to make the choice. Perhaps that is why she spends so much of this 'special time' with me - to try it out.
I do everything I can to not show my feeelings. I am a rock, standing tall and being a mystery, which she even said to me 'you sure are a mystery to me' while I was comforting her in her bed last nite.
And Shark, I do my best to set it up so she comes to me, I don't pursue her in any way. And boy is it difficult!
Today she asked me if I 'have always wanted her to work'. I wasn't sure what she meant, so I said 'I have always wanted you to be happy, to feel like your life is fulfilled. I never needed you to work for the money but for the satifaction of knowing you could build something'.
She said 'well, I always had some kind of work I was doing' and I replied that was true, but I have seen you grow from 'a massage therapist' to various, more advanced techiques and modalities. You master one and then learn something new.
Anyway, I was honest and told her that I only wanted her to achieve her goals and do what makes her happy the past few years.
Not sure what she was fishing for. Hopefully she will 'get it' and realize that it hasn't been ME who has set limits on her life. It's HER.
Remember Frank, don't do anything to aid in actually FILING for divorce. Keep a line there. YOU don't want it so you don't do the work.
Quote: Hopefully she will 'get it' and realize that it hasn't been ME who has set limits on her life. It's HER.
I feel like you are absolutely correct here. It's a hard thing to realize, though. In my case, for those first years of my marriage that I did not work, I lost all faith in myself to be able to even GET a job. If it didn't have to do with kids, I thought I was in over my head. Now prior to getting married I had spent a few years in the Air Force and I left with GLOWING recommendations from my whole chain of command about my "level of maturity", my "ability to jump in and run" my department as an AIRMAN when my SSgt got sent to Saudi Arabia in Desert Storm, my "communication with then- HQ-TAC to successfully secure training quotas for our pilots".... I used to read those and wonder what happened to THAT girl. Fortunately I found her again, but I am STILL a bit unsure of myself at times. My point is that fear can be SEVERELY crippling and even if your wife's circumstances are not as bad as mine were, she can still have a hell of a time getting over it and taking her life back. IT IS A PROCESS. You are a wonderful support system and her biggest fan. THAT will take her far but she has to go the rest of the way all by herself.
I do pray she realizes that does not mean she has to leave you. That would be a huge mistake IMHO.
Hang in there, Frank. You're closer to your goal today than you were yesterday.
Today was Counselor day for me. One thing I am thankful for is that I can afford to get W and I into individual counseling every week. I don't know what would have happened without it.
So, C and I talked about all the happenings. She helped me make an interesting observation: The flirting, touching, hugging and other displays of 'affection' that W does are actually MORE often now than they had been in the past 5 years.
So she said "Would you rathe rhave her TELL you she loves you and not show it very much like she has for the last five years, or would you rather she SHOW you she loves you and not say she does like she's doing now?"
So, Counselor got me again with an answer I would have never thought of.
she feels that I should just stay doing what I'm doing because W KNOWS she made a really big mistake. She thought she met the guy of her dreams, that her life journey was going to play out easily, all she had to do was 'be single' and it would all be perfect. She'd get a job, find a place to live, everything would just fall into place.
Now she's found out she was played like a fool, that it takes a lot of work to start a business, and that men like me don't stay down forever and we're hard to find. Men with true charachter. Most men would have left this situation a long time ago.
So, C says let her keep reaching out to me, the hugging, the kissing, the 'bunny rabbit games' - they are all a part of courtship. And I am a 'new' man so she has to learn about me. She said yesterday that I am a real 'mystery' to her.
Overall I see the connection. Tonite W came home from a massage and walked by my, put one arm around me and kissed me on the cheek.
Later, she came into my office and sat facing me on my lap. She said to me 'I can do anything I want to you' and I replied 'no, you can't" so she says "you haven't stopped me yet when I di anything and I say 'You haven't done anything I don't like, when you do I'll stop you.
So, she's flirting again. And is asking me if I am really under her control.
She asked me tonite what my shedule is tomorrow morning. I told her I had no calls or meetings to deal with so it would be quiet. She said that she doesn't have any clients tommorrow morning.Then says that maybe we could 'play bunnies' tomorrow morning. Ah ha,scheduling some sex.
I almost said 'no thanks'. But thought brttrt of it
Quote: Frank must be gettin some tonight! Go Frank!
No, not really. Did get some this morning though. It was very 'normal' compared to the previous times, and fun of course. No crying, which was good. We even looked each other in the eyes.
I was gone all day on business and other stuff. Didn't get home till 10:45. W was up still watching TV. I don't know if she was 'waiting up' for me but she was wearing her pajamas and looked really tired. A month ago she WOULD have been in bed by the time I got home so I will give myself comfort thinking that she was waiting for me. We've spent the last 2 nites watching TV together so maybe it's a new 'habit'.
We talked for a couple minutes, then she gave me a nice hug and went to bed, which is what I'm about to do too...I'm beat.
I saw my Counselor today for a few minutes after D10 had her session with her. She said something interesting to me which was that she has been 'consistent' in her message to W and to me. I asked her what she meant by that and she said "Saying 'I love you' to someone is just speaking the words. I've told you and her that it's more important to do the actions to show someone they are loved. Then when you say it, the words have meaning."
And she said again to "keep doing what you're doing for another month."
Ok, I have to stay in limbo for another month. I can do that since I AM getting some affection, which is nice. C also said somethng to me the other day that was interesting. She said that W didn't need to hear me say "Don't worry, you're safe" when I am holding her when she's crying and hurting. W told her that she always feels safe with me, and doesn't like me to say that to her.
So that's a good step. She feels safe with me, that was a big issue since she hasn't felt very safe for a few years since I was checked out.
So, it's slow and there's no guarantee how it will turn out but it's better than it was. At least now I have a fighting chance.
This morning wife was in the doldrums.... Didn't want to do anything but just lie on the couch being pouty and feel sorry for herself. Even though I was not in the best of spirits either I pulled my self up and then got her motivated, and we went for an hour and a half hike together.
During the hike she talked a little about 'what are WE?' meaning what is our 'relationship' we have right now. I know she did NOT want to hear 'two people working on their marriage' so I said 'we are two people who care about each other spending time helping each other grow". I also said "we are not the same two people that existed say, 6 months or a year ago, so we're each getting to know the new 'us'." Her opinion was that she just doesn't "know" what is going on between us, but is taking it day by day.
She also told me that she thought that if we had never gotten married, but had just 'lived together' then she probably wouldn't have 'lost herself' in the marriage because that was what she thought marriage was - becoming dependent on the other person for your happiness.
I told her that was simply not true - that I have read a lot of books on marriage and relationships so I don't make the same mistakes again, and that in a healthy marriage each person gives love, and is also independent and able to live without 'needing' the other person to fill their 'cup'".
I told her that nobody should need someone to fill their cup. She said that I fill her cup all the time and I pointed out that I DO NOT fill it all the time, only sometimes and only when she neads support. There's a big difference between NEEDING someone in order to keep your cup filled and needing SUPPORT sometimes to help fill it. I then went on to say that as long as she is around ME I will not become the person who keeps her cup filled. I said that I don't want to be in a relationship like that with ANYBODY because it's unhealthy for me and for her.
She brought up another topic, wondering "if she'll ever meet somebody that will return my love the same way I give it to them". I asked her what she meant and she explained that she gives so much love to others, and wants a man who will mirror it back to her, who wants to feel love on a deeper level.
I was kind of thinking that she was feeling the downer from the mistake of OM, and how she basically gave her whole 'self' to him and didn't get the same feelings in return. She knows now that by doing that she became emotionally dependent on him and now she says she doesn't trust her ability to tell when someone is not going to be healthy like he was.
So I told her that I give her love, but she looked away from me and said it wasn't the same. She obviously wants that "In Love Feeling" and for it to be reciprocated. And she doesn't see me as an option - meaning she will not 'feel' those feelings for me.
And that's where the dilemma is for me. I would love nothing more than to show her that I am in love with her. But the circumstances prevent me from doing that because she is not in a place where she is ready or willing to hear that from me without feeling like she has to run away.
Instead I am forced to mantain a neutral, caring and strong 'attitude' without 'giving away' the fact that I love her so much. I am 'just a friend'. It's very disillusioning sometimes. I mean, we have our moments of comforting closeness, sex or just 'knowing looks'. Then later we're talking about her 'meeting a man someday who will be the 'right kind' that fulfills her emotional needs. It sucks.
This is such a challenge to me to maintain the level emotional state. Especially when she gives me the comments that imply she is 'looking for someone else'. I can't let them affect me but they do. I just don't show it.
I don't think anyone else on the board here has a situation where their wife constantly implies that 'they aren't the man for them', yet looks to them to support her emotionally.
Anyone?
Well the upsides are still that she lives in the house, we share intimacy through sex or other cuddle time we spend together occaisionally, and she doesn't really have a social life where she might meet other men.
He new business isn't doing great, but it's just started so there's no reason to think it won't grow. That doesn't help her self esteem much. At least she is making enough money to pay her personal bills so that gives her some positive feelings. I keep giving her supportive input of course.
So, I'm feeling a little down, feeling not loved and like "I'll do till someone better comes along". That's so far from 6 months ago where I felt loved, and like I would never lose her. I know I must count my blessings and be happy with , them so I will.
I wish I could tell her I love her so much. I wish she would just ask me. But I know it has to come from her first.
Later today W saw our counselor. She said she got a lot of 'clarity' she needed. As you know our counselor is exceptional and is doing her best to guide W to making the best choices for her and our familys life.
Tonite W seems very happy, and a little flirty. So, at dinner she tells me that "One thing Counselor said was that you weren't sure if it was OK if you initiate contact with me, that you always let me approach you instead"
So I said "Yes, that's true. I am respecting your boundaries."
She says "Well it's fine with me if you do what you want as long as we're careful not to be seen by the kids or anyone. What we do is our business. And it gives us a chance to 'practice' our relationship skills, right? It also gives me an opportunity to be assertive and say 'No' when I don't want a hug or sex or whatever."
I say, "Sure. That's fine with me. We'll be 'discreet'"
Uh, Er, What?
So, I can initiate hugs, kisses, seduce her or whatever now and she'll go along with it because we are 'practicing' our relationship skills, implying that this is so we're better at 'these things' when we get into our NEXT relationships with someone else?
I can't WAIT for next weeks session with Counselor so I can ask her to explain how she convinced W of this! She's creative, that's for sure.
I know C is going to tell me that this is a way for W and I to have all the interactions of a 'marriage', without the marriage or the commitment or even a 'relationship'. This is supposed to be a 'safe' way for W to explore what it would be like to be married to the 'new' me, without feeling pressured by a relationship.
I know she'll say that's her reason for suggesting this. I'm getting pretty good at predicting what she'll do next. Getting pretty scary when I'm starting to understand C better. She really pulled this one out of her hat.
So, here I am. Living with flirty, sexy, sometimes needy, always confused wife who wants to 'play house' without being committed to me in any way. Says she's using me to 'practice' so she can do better next time.
This is crazy. I have GOT to have the weirdest DB story in the world.
This is crazy. I have GOT to have the weirdest DB story in the world.
Either that or the most wildly successful one!
Frank, I am going to say it again. I am really happy for you. You've none just about the best DB job I have seen of any of us and it seems to have paid off big time. You W doesn't even know what hit her. All of a sudden she's having $ex, "working on R skills" and she probably can't figure out when all this changed. Sure, your C had a lot to do with it, but the real credit goes to you for really applying what you learned. Sure, you are still in a broken M, but there is real potential here for it to be fixed. Be confused, apprehensive, cautious, etc, but make sure to be happy too. You deserve it, as do we all.
