Frank I am so glad you are feeling so much better! If there is one person here that deserves that it is you! I have to agree with you and GH it is hard to post and comment to others here if you do not feel strong. I look forward to posts from you guys, and I know many of us will need the support today!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
If you find a way to bottle up all the love you have for your wife and "give it someone else" be sure to post it REALLY BIG so everyone of these people here can do it, too. We're all tired.
We don't have the luxury of deciding when we will love and no longer love. Matters of the heart are not in our control. Only whether or not we express what is in our hearts is within our control. You can go pick up someone somewhere but it won't do anything to ease your pain or make you stop loving your wife. So there is no "giving it to someone else". Sure, it would be easier if we could all do that but we can't!
I know it seems like a long time since this all started for you, but 2 months is a drop in the hat compared to some of these folks. Every 5 or 6 days you are looking for someone to tell you to give up and move on. We are not quitters and I, for one, am not going to tell you to quit.
You haven't been AT this long enough yet. When will it be "long enough"? Only you will know.
Shark, I've been talking with you since your very first post and as I said on your thread earlier today, it is time for you to get in the trenches with the rest of us and try to help others on this board. You have an experience that someone out there else needs to know about. SHARE IT. The pain AND the lessons.
Quote: I need to come back and visit your sitch. Like I said some time ago - the correlations in our sitches are way to frightening to mention.
I looked at your thread and in some ways they are very similar. Rather than me tell you what to do, I'll post what I've been doing and perhaps you will get something out of it.
so....
Today has been REAL weird. Saw Counselor this afternoon and talked about my weekend, and told her about the 'encounter' with W the other day. She said W is re-framing her view of me because, as she put it, she basically threw away a relationship with me that she thought was always going to suck so she could have a relationship with someone she thought was her 'soul mate' and 'true love'. When she pushed him to support her when she needed to work on her own issues he apparently bailed on her.
So, now she doesn't have her 'knight' any more, and she thinks she doesn't have ME any more since I told her a couple weeks ago quite clearly that I don't NEED her and I will be fine without her.
Her statement that "Your life would be meaningless without me" was really a question. And my answer was correct. It wouldn't be meaningless. But it would be sadder.
C says she is trying to figure out how I fit into her life now. Anyway, C sais all my responses are brilliant and it's obvious they are coming from my place of integrity. And W must see that.
But, C said this to me and I think this is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING: Do not go to her, do not hug her, kiss her or INITIATE any kind of intimacy with her. Let HER do all the initiating. Let HER make every move. SHE has to pursue YOU.
If she asks you why you are 'backing off' tell her that you are respecting her boundaries and that when she want's to share intimacy with you that you are willing to but you won't initiate anything, and that when she does choose to enter your sacred space (or whatever works for you) that you will love, honor, respect and cherish her.
Or, to put it simply, she gets to choose WHEN but I get to choose HOW.
Anyway, there's more but I want to mention the events this afternoon.
W has been quite the tease. Making remarks and naughty facial expressions. Getting very close and in my face. Been pretty bad actually and I told her a few times that she was 'affecting my concentration'.
She asked me to fix the broken brake lights on her car, said she'd do a favor for me if I would because she didn't want to take it to a shop and pay lots.
When she was telling me this, she was very close and I said to her 'You can kiss me now'. She paused and said 'no, I can't but I was thinking about it'.
I left to get the parts and fixed the lights. When I went into the garage to put stuff away she came up to me and stood in front of me and said "I can kiss you now" and really laid one on me (actually 3-4 slow ones). On the 4th one I stepped back and said 'That's all you get for now' and smiled, then walked away.
The teasing continued while I was making dinner tonite and up until she left to go do some massages at her office.
Sooooo, I thought I would see what buttons I could push and I made a valentines card on the computer that said "You've been thinking naughty thoughts all day...If you're good you'll get what you want, if you're naughty you'll get what you like! Look under the pillow and pick 5 pages from the book that's there"
I left it on her pillow of her bed. Under the pillow is a pink silk nightie and a book of Kama Sutra 'positions'.
You big flirt Frank! Good for you! At least someone might get lucky around her tonite! We can all live through you! All I have for myself tonite is the chocolates I stole from my kids.....never want the kids to eat to much candy! Have fun Frank
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
.....I'm thinking Frank must have pulled a muscle or something last night and can't get to the computer to write an update for us poor souls that are living vicariously through him.
Really, it's sounds like your W is really doing something different here. I am so happy for you and hope it's what it seems to be. If nothing else, it IS positive and can be taken as such without any more thought. I WISH my W would do ANYTHING like this for me but alas...I am a monk these days...lol.
Well, D10 blew a fuse again and lost it. Had to be cuddled by mom till about 10:00 or so. D10 was talking about her fears of divorce and stuff related and W was explaining to her that adults sometimes have to go apart so they can grow and that no matter what, she will be loved by both of us. W is still preparing them for divorce as that is still her Mantra.
Then W and I watched some TV till about 11. We both usually go to bed about then and so I went up to my room and read. Of course she went to her room and must have seen the note I left. I waited around about 15 minutes then went and knocked on her door, went in and she was reading the book I left her. Then, the short story is she basically invited me in and the rest is history...
Her fold out bed really does suck so I can see how she hates sleeping in it.
She complained about her bed being so crappy to sleep in again. I offered her the other half of mine but she said that wasn't OK because 'how would the kids take it, we're getting divorced?' We can't be sleeping together.
So, this morning after the kids went to school the topic of last nite came up and she was concerned that we were somehow messing with our heads by 'doing it'. I of course said it wasn't an issue as long as we know where we stand.
Then, to make a long story short we ended up in my (our) bed again. We were much more connected than previous times and she only cried once.
We actually held each other a little too. She had one big emoptional outburst but commented about how little she cried this time and that the 'therapy' must be working. She also said she doesn't know WHY she cries. Later she made a remark that she was not losing weight like she was a few weeks ago and that the more she and I were 'comforting and caring' for each other the more she was getting to go back to being like she was when we were married. Not dieting or taking care of her self.
I pointed out that it's a choice she is making, it's not because of anything happening between us. She is responsible for herself, not me. To blame her actions on me or her relationship with me is wrong and unfair. She didn't say anything about it.
She just does not want to be married. She's afraid that if she does, her life will go back to the way it was. But it's ok to exert her sexual energy with me because that's just an 'encounter' and I'm safe.
So, it's a positive that she will do this, but a negative that she frames it as 'just sex' and that she still sees marriage to be a bad thing because it will cause HER to become the woman she WAS again. She seems to be less afraid that I will change 'back', just that she will.
And, she has not said any 'feeling' words like 'I love you'. But as Counselor said the other day, she feels safe with me otherwise she wouldn't hold me as tightly as she does or even do what she is doing with me. So, it's hard to say what she's feeling or not feeling but it does seem that she is trusting me more.
She's off to see Counselor now so I hope she talks about these issues and gets some good feedback. I do know that as long as I stay neutral in my tone of voice and in my actions she will most likely still keep up the intimacy. And given enough time the physical intimacy will spawn emotional intimacy or we will just become friends who have sex with each other, I don't know.
Regardless, I have to maintain my detachment under these conditions, which is very difficult. And the constant 'threat' of divorce from her keeps the hurt there.
What a bizarre life I live. But I will say one thing - I MYSELF am fine, strong and feeling. I am not needy and I am slowly talking her back to trusting again. Herself and me.
10 year old daughters from Coast to Coast were snappin' last night Frank. Wasn't just yours .
Your post is a good one. She just needs to establish her own identity, if only in her mind. She'll get there. Be the rock that sees her through it. I believe in you and in your wife. I don't know what it is about your thread but even when you're down, I still sense a silver lining all around you. You are blessed.
.