it is too hard to explain in the short time and space I have. I could write a book (as I am sure everyone on here could).
Let's just say that I think in every relationship there is one person who is willing to throw in the towel. At some point in our relationship that became my wife. At any time in our discussions if it becomes heated she will tell me to pack my bags. A year and a half ago I did. I spent 48 hours GONE. We got back together and went through a year of counseling.
If you asked me last week how things were going I would have told you pretty good. She is just in a mood right now for whatever reason. She of course does not believe this. She feels this is all me.
I have thought many times about our future together and I always see it playing out one of three ways...
1. she begins menopause and her monthly mood swings get multiplied by 100 = divorce 2. the kids grow up, I retire, we can't stand being around each other = divorce 3. the kids grow up, I retire, my sex drive drops, we enjoy being around each other
No where in there do I imagine a future where she actually takes an interest in my needs and we work something out that we are BOTH happy with.
So, why don't I divorce her you are probably wondering? why stay?
I cannot "give up" on the marriage. I cannot put our kids through that. I can play the role of happy husband and when she is in her "good phase" life is good. When she is in her "crappy phase" I just slog through it till it's good again. I have no interest in going through a divorce, living in a crappy apartment, visiting my kids, etc.
I never suggested you leave. I asked why you think making her participate in the marriage was going above and beyond.
And you answered with a list of reasons why YOU don't want to leave.
Are you saying that you think SHE'D leave if you drew a boundary around what you are willing or not willing to tolerate from her?
Her saying 'pack your bags' is nothing. It's not you leaving, nor is it her leaving. It's her effectively shutting down the conversation by hitting you where you have a sensitive area--abandonment, or being alone.
I wouldn't give that comment so much power if I were you.
I hope I'm not coming off harsh; I'm trying to get to the bottom of why you've completely given up on yourself.
Sometimes I just feel like any conflict with her is going to lead to yelling and then her saying "get out"
As such, unless I am ready to "get out" there is no point starting the conflict. I just stay calm, listen to her and try to understand.
Yes, I am saying that if I drew boundaries she would NOT tolerate it. We had many arguements a year ago about our sex life and she ALWAYS said it was my problem, she wasn't going to do anything about it and I could take it or leave it.
She would probably say that she is the one participating in the marriage and I am mentally absent.
I really don't know how to explain myself. I am going to go home now and see what happens. We have a busy night as usual so we will be passing each other in and out the door till 9pm or so...
I got to thinking about it on the way home... since I was dreading seeing her and dealing with it all.
I started thinking - gosh, things were fine a few days ago... what the heck started all this?
then I remembered. It was because I initiated sex. I asked her for sex. That was it. She started into me the next morning with how offensive I had been. I remember my confusion. How was I offensive? It's not like I was crass or said something like "you better put out now" - I went in there and said I really wanted to be with her tonight. So, how was it offensive. As she describes it, it was "offensive" because I have been ignoring her and now I expect her to jump from level 1 to level 10 instantly.
so, on my drive home I was thinking about this and I think I know what is going on now. I think this is really more about HER than she cares to admit. There have been just as many times in the last month that she has turned me down for lunch or dinner (because of HER busy schedule) as I have done to her. We have gone out. We have spent time together. I think the TRUTH of the matter is that after I asked for sex, she laid there in bed asking herself WHY she didn't want to. Probably paranoid that I was pissed off or something. So, she started telling herself..."well, if he had done this or that I would have responded differently" - in this way, she could place the blame on ME instead of her. That way, she could say that the reason we did not have sex was because *I* did not do something.
well, I got home and instead of the normal excited HI and a smile I just got a glance as she was talking to one of our kids. Then, as I returned from the bathroom she was heading out the door to drop D14 off for dance - "bye, gotta run" - not even a kiss or a moment to look each other in the eyes and say HI. Yep, she's definately stewing over this. I guess she'll return in a few minutes and I'll see where she takes this.
well, more update. She came back and was as cold as she could be. We only had about 20 minutes to talk before I needed to run D10 to an appointment. So, we were alone and I tried to get her talking. Finally she started to talk and it was pretty obvious that she is just angry. She wants to be angry and there is nothing I can really say to stop it. No matter how I try to get her to see that it is unfounded she just WANTS to be mad at me. It's like she is pushing me be mad at her.
I think this goes back to my previous post. I really think she knows that this is her issue and she wants to throw it on me. We have busy lives (and these are all schedules and appointments that SHE HAS SET UP). Why is it that I am now getting raked over the coals because I'm busy. We have gone out. I have made an effort to spend time with her.
She said that there was a time when she felt I was giving 100% and now she feels like I'm not. I really don't see any different in the way I have been acting or feeling toward her. She is the one who suddenly had her schedule triple and fill up. I can't get a moment with her because she ALSO Has a full schedule.
So, I just kept asking her "what do you want from this?" "what is your goal?" "where do you want this to go...?" and she just kept snapping at me and never answering the question.
It's at times like these that I really start weighing the marriage. Gee, on one side we have nice home, kids, decent budget WITH minimal sex life, fighting, stress. On the other side we have divorce, no money, visitation with kids, possibility of meeting a woman that enjoys the same thing I do!!!!!
One time my wife said "you know, I have no doubt you could meet a woman that enjoys sex and have a great time together... that's just not me and you need to accept that."
I was reading some posts over at ivillage.com just to torture myself. It was in the "hot to make it hotter" section where all these men and women are talking about techniques and things to do to make their sex life better - of course they have a willing partner who is enjoying this just as much as them. I was thinking... I can't even get my wife to READ a page like this or even DISCUSS it. As a matter of fact, if she even saw me reading it we would have a fight over it. I'm just getting so tired of living a fake like. Not being the real me.
Okay, I just had to get that out of my system. I'm sure I'll have a miserable night. I'll have to deal with her again at 7pm for a few minutes as she's going to a meeting - then again at 9pm when it will REALLY get miserable and I may just end up on the couch tonight.
I'm definately not going to be initiating ANY TIME SOON - she has definately killed my libido. Which brings up another point. If she had come up to me and given me a hug and said "I really miss spending time with you... let's do something" I would have dropped anything I was doing and she knows this. Instead, I'm getting an angry person jumping down my throat - this is totally illogical and is NOT going to get her what she wants. If she wants me to spend more time with her, how is being mad at me and telling me what a butt I am going to bring that about?
What are you really afraid of here? Why are you letting her (yes, letting her) treat you this way?
Are you really afraid she's going to say "get out"? I mean, to me it sounds like you are weighing that possibility with some of what you say and do. You had the perfect opportunity to draw a boundary with her when you noticed she just wants to be mad at you. Why are you letting her project her behavior to you? It appears to me that she's doing some of why my H used to do....behave towards me in a manner in which I will behave the way he expected me to. Your W is being b!tchy to you in order to provoke you to behave the way she needs you to to justify her anger at you....make sense? If you don't rise to her bait....she looks pretty foolish being angry with you.
When you were asking questions of her and she just kept snapping, did you calmly say...."you haven't answered the question."?
I'm also going to throw something I hate to out there, but I think this needs to be answered....could there be someone else in the picture?
okay - I just finished the last talk with her and we both did a 180. It's like a freaking tornado was whipping around in my house... you don't know if it's going to hit something or not and then it just disappears.
I came home and just walked up to her and said "look, I know you're unhappy. I know you're angry. I'm here to listen and I'm going to stop focusing on placing blame."
BAMM - it hit her right where she wanted it. She looked like she was going to cry. She said all she wants is to FEEL like she is important in my life. I told her that she is and always has been. If I'm busy doing something I will drop it when she needs my time or attention. She said she knows I'm busy and does not WANT me to drop everything on her whim... she just needs to FEEL seen and heard like I'm willing to work on it with her. She even went so far as to says "you know how you want to feel like I understand your needs and when you feel they are neglected you want me to respond and work on it with you and make you feel like we are a team working on it together...well, that's how I feel about time with you..."
So, I'm feeling much better now... but, I'm definately going to file away that last sentence she said because it is a total reversal of what she said a year ago "I don't care what your needs are and I have no interest in changing to meet them..."
Okay, everyone can go back to what they were doing... shows over... nothing to see here...
Your W just told you her Love Language dude!!! She's like me...Quality Time....you just got yourself a HUGE clue as to what to do to get her to respond to you.
Also....from what you said, it sounds to me like you need to do some validating when she's talking to you, in order to make her feel understood and acknowledged. You have two things right there that can be excellent tools in turning your sitch around. Validation and Quality Time.
Now, when your W says "time with you", do you know what she means? For some people quality time could be doing home improvement around the house....for others, like myself, it's time one-on-one together....talking, snuggling, playing backgammon over a glass of wine...sitting on our front porch enjoying the view and chatting about the day...stuff like that. She's opened the door for you to ask some questions like "honey, when you say "time with me" are there any things in particular you enjoy doing with me that we haven't been doing lately...or are you talking about just spending time together in the evenings talking about our days?
Sooooo....it's possible your W has not been having her needs met in the way she needs them met, because of course you didn't know what those needs were. Because of that...she's thinking he's not meeting my needs, but he's going on and on about me meeting his....see the vicious cycle here? It takes communication, and loooooots of it
You want a little wine to go with that cheese of yours? (I'm trying to provoke you, in case you didn't notice. I'm so dam subtle that sometimes my point doesn't come through clearly... I'm working on it, though.)
There ain't not show to go back to, and you've got lots of work to do... but you did do SOME good... I'll give you that...
Quote: any conflict with her is going to lead to yelling and then her saying "get out"
So? It's just words. You look her square in the eye and say "I'm not going anywhere; this is my home."
Quote: Yes, I am saying that if I drew boundaries she would NOT tolerate it.
Well, what would she do? I mean, really? Is she going to leave? Her telling you to take it or leave it is, again, nothing. It's just words. You don't have to accept it as is, or leave. There are other options. And that's exactly what I would respond to those awful inflammatory words.
Quote: She would probably say that she is the one participating in the marriage and I am mentally absent.
I would say that if you spend the majority of your time with your computer instead of hanging out with her, that she might have a valid case on this one, don't you think? I see in later posts that she told you her love language is quality time. Excellent. Now you have a starting point! I know it will be hard to meet her needs with your tank on empty, but someone's gotta start the whole process and you, dear guy, are it.
Keep the lines of communication open. Tell her that you will do your best to spend time with her and these (xyz) are the ways you will do it. In the meantime, wife, I hope that you can find it in yourself to meet some of my needs as well.
End the conversation looking strong and manly in her eyes. Do not back down from her--women find this extremely unattractive.
