Hanging on/The Long Haul #9

[WCW]

Thank you, ladies. Another day put in history.

Had a great day with my mom on Valentines. We talked about vacations we’ve taken together, and a little about her accident just before Christmas, how she feels now, and she admitted that she thinks she was under so much stress and that contributed to what happened. It was tough to hear this from my mom, she has got to be one the strongest women I know in my life. The theory is ‘the nut doesn’t fall far from the tree’. I am one lucky daughter!!

H came home early, I had a slight moment of ‘it’s Valentines, he’s going to surprise me!’ Wrong. I knew better, but the thought just sprung up so fast. He said he had a meeting in less than hour that was a 45 minute drive. I couldn’t help but say “no wonder you are home so early.” I struggle more and more with not saying what’s on my mind.

I had a meeting last night as well, social as much as business. I beat H home by less than 5 minutes, I expected him to be pretty late. Had I known, I would have stayed out later. H didn’t say too much, he got a late night phone call. Then he laid down on the couch with his back to the room to sleep. When I went to bed, I blew out the candles, and went to touch him on the shoulder and say good night. He was awake, and he stiffened at my touch. As if he was afraid of more to come.

I woke myself up last night, I was screaming in my sleep. I don’t remember what I was dreaming about, and I think I am glad I don’t. Still shaken by that feeling.....

We are under a winter weather advisory for tonight and tomorrow, up to 10 inches. A lady here at work talked about how many inches we would wake up with tomorrow. Geez, wishful thinking!

[always_14]

Hi there!! Got your post on my thread. I've been taking a bit of a break, but still do the "lurk 'n learn" bit--I sure do need it. Things are going well.

I just read up on your things and I'm really glad for your progress: feeling your emotions, letting yourself think about the history and what your visions are--it is from this that your goals are made. Though it's hard to see while in the trenches and so close, I'm also glad for the gradual warming from your H--small but sincere.

I really admire your wisdom and strength. BUT, I may have to disagree with your thoughts that H will leave if you bring up R (I'm not suggesting that you bring it up). In all honesty, I think what you've been through together and what you're going through now is the hardest of times. After 2 years, it seems that sentiment would have worn off, left with not a whole lot to stick around for. Lots of anger (or "loathing" as my H put it), resentment, wounds, etc. In the words of my C, "if he really wanted to leave, he would have left by now." He doesn't really go to HUGE lengths to avoid you, though he is cold. I really think he does not want to leave the M, but is stuck, much as you are. Really, his life now is not easy and painless (sleeping on the couch, avoiding a person through the day, dreading the guilt and pain when you face them, dreading seeing them so sad and patient, etc)...leaving would certainly be the easy way out and he hasn't done that yet. So, since only YOU know your H, what do you think keeps him around? It's probably not as shallow as you might think.

I see 2 people in their corners, hurt and angry. Probably wanting the same thing, but not knowing how to climb out of the hole. Maybe it's time for something different. Something to break the ice, to reach out and make the hard part easier for both of you...to strike while he's still drawn to being at home. Who knows what will come of it. Maybe this is a window of opportunity as well.

There's a really good conversation going on Slowly's and RabbitHole's threads about breaking the ice and authentic communication, etc. I know it's about talking R, but in a different way. I hope I'm not coming off too strong, but it might be something to try...the last conversations you had with H seem a while ago, and both of you are holding yourselves to how you felt then, but things have changed. This might be a chance to let each other know that.

If I've overstepped bounds, please accept my apologies!!!

[bravagal]

WCW,

Glad to hear you are feeling stronger and less pulled by what your H does or says. I think this is key. It does not mean you do not have to have compassion or love for you H but it is healthy detachment. Good for you!

Just a thought that I have been working on internalizing: every time we make H the bad guy or jerk or whatever , we make ourselves the victims... and give them and the situation power over us.

OK, my 2 cents for the day!

Keep up the GALing!!!
brava

[WCW]

I've been pretty up and down this week, and each time I think I would be ready to say something my thoughts and feelings would all change, and I finally just decided to let it ride. And quite honestly, what I have to say doesn't put me in a Piecing forum.

Brava, thanks for your thoughts. I'm regaining power, but it takes a while to make a real comeback.
Hey always - no problem, tell it like you see it, it doesn't need sugar coating. In many ways you are spot on, two people in corners angry and hurt, you just forgot to add proud and stubborn to the list.

I had a long lengthy two cup of coffee post all typed out, and the more I read it the more I realized my thoughts still just don't make sense, not even to me, and I can fill in between the lines. I'll get it figured out, and try again sometime.

In the meantime, we had 12 inches of snow which blew into hip high snowdrifts (no, I am not short ), and then we went subzero temps, -22 last night, down to -12 tonight, which makes anything outside a real challenge. Venting - if I'm outside working just as much as H, why is it when we come inside I still work doing the cooking, dishes, laundry, and cleaning, while he rests? ggrrrrr. Oh wait, he buttered the toast this morning. Pretty ungrateful of me to almost forget that!

I do remember this, Friday morning H shoveled a path to the door of my truck. That was pretty nice, and I did say thanks.

[WCW]

Here’s a 2 cupper, fill it up with your favorite brew and have a seat.

I got email from a friend last week, the lady that I talked to a lot when this all started. She’s still pretty hurt that I don’t confide in her anymore, and I’ve told her many times my reasons. We’re still friends, it’s just changed back to the friendship we had before I dumped my guts to her, but periodically she emails this big long deal and yadayada woe is me you don’t tell me everything anymore. I responded with the following -
As for my personal life, I just couldn't let it consume me to the point it was by talking about it every hour of every day. Someday, depending on what direction this all goes, I may need that again for a while. Another words, nothing is better, nothing is worse, well - maybe worse, I don't even know. I know it would be a lot easier to just call it quits than it will be if H ever decides he will recommit to this marriage. And I don't know how much longer I will last with the way things are. I am tired and weary of trying, yet growing stronger as a single unit. Sometimes I think, what am I waiting for? just get it done. Sometimes, I think, what else is in my future? why not just let it ride. I am working more on me, finding things that make me happy again, and H can take it or leave it. I can't change him, and I still don't love the person he is at this stage in his life. Maybe I never will again. It's the facts that I am facing.

I’ve been thinking a LOT lately. Surprised? About my life, past/present/future. What I’ve come up with is that H and I are very compatible physically, and by that I don’t mean just in the bedroom (I think we are anyway, he has lashed out and said other ideas that I haven't recovered from), we have common interests in hobbies, business and can work hard and side by side in a physical way, we can spend a ton of time together physically, have great times together in each others physical presence, have in depth conversations and reconcile differences or agree to disagree on organizations and groups we volunteer and support. All great stuff.

But we have fallen apart in the ability to support each other emotionally, verbally, talk about our needs, fill our dreams. It’s not there now, and hasn't been for a long time, even were falling apart even before the Big Fall, which explains so much. H told me that my actions after learning of his actions prevent him from sharing any of his feelings and thoughts with me, he doesn’t trust me, and he’s held hardy to that policy. He says nothing of what he does day to day, of the plans that he makes, of what he has decided, and if I try to ask he gets very defensive and it’s none of my business. He asks nothing about me, what I do, how I feel, how is my day. I tested this on Saturday with asking him some questions about some future business plans, I thought that was a neutral subject we could discuss. There is no daily support of each other, none of the casual, how are you today or how was your day? I also realize that I don’t know how to ask for what I want, what I need. It isn’t just now, it’s been how I have always been. I struggle with putting what I want ahead of anything else. Not all the time, but most often. I know I am wrong to make the assumption that someone will just know or care enough to just put me first, but wouldn’t it be just grand? To be someone’s priority. Well, it ain’t gonna happen.

So, what do I do for me? Part of my reflecting and drifting back thru my life has brought to the surface, again, that I was at the happiest point of my adult life when I was in between marriages. Doesn’t that sound horrible? It’s a long story of how I got to be that single happy person. And that is most likely why I attracted a guy that I assumed I would be so compatible with for the rest of my life. Why am I married now if my happiest time was when I was single? I am looking for the answer to that question, and taking a long time to figure it out.

Saturday was frigid and brutal cold here, we both worked outside most of the morning. The way the day shook out is that H took his morning shower early afternoon. I mustered up some courage and went and poked my head in and asked if he wanted company, he said ‘oh, I thought the company was all gone’ and changed the subject. I closed the curtain and went and vaccuumed. But there are some things I need to know, do I still have a physical desire for him? Do I have the feelings I need to continue? I followed his with my own shower, and then lead H to the bedroom, he was very wary the whole time, and we went to bed together. My first surprise was that he allowed this much to happen. My original intent was that if he rejected me again that would be the lead to an R talk. Once we were in bed I changed my thoughts (or chickened out), and reasoned that if he doesn’t feel safe to be with me, then I shouldn’t force that much, so we mostly just laid in bed and he inspected the red spots on my back, napped a little, he let me lay close enough to touch him, all less than 30 minutes, and he was gone. And now here I am writing this and feeling bitter because I am thinking how lucky and fortunate that he would ALLOW this much to happen, that he would give this much to me, and then I think, WAIT A MINUTE! Who left the marriage? Who walked and found pleasure somewhere else? WTF am I doing, thinking thanks for how lucky I am he let me lay close to him? This morning I was so very close to asking him ‘what did you think on Saturday, did you expect more? Or were you disappointed?’ I chickened out. Now I have to vacuum feathers again.

Sunday was another very cold day, single digit temps for a high. H was outside most of the day until we left for a meeting. I stayed in and worked on some spreadsheet stuff, and remembered the warm days of when he first moved here to be with me. We had a lunch date every Tuesday. I picked up fast food burgers, 3 for $1.00, and some fries, and we had a picnic lunch together. Where have those simple times gone?

[AKiwiWannabe]

I got email from a friend last week, the lady that I talked to a lot when this all started. She’s still pretty hurt that I don’t confide in her anymore, and I’ve told her many times my reasons. We’re still friends, it’s just changed back to the friendship we had before I dumped my guts to her, but periodically she emails this big long deal and yadayada woe is me you don’t tell me everything anymore. I responded with the following -
As for my personal life, I just couldn't let it consume me to the point it was by talking about it every hour of every day. Someday, depending on what direction this all goes, I may need that again for a while. Another words, nothing is better, nothing is worse, well - maybe worse, I don't even know. I know it would be a lot easier to just call it quits than it will be if H ever decides he will recommit to this marriage. And I don't know how much longer I will last with the way things are. I am tired and weary of trying, yet growing stronger as a single unit. Sometimes I think, what am I waiting for? just get it done. Sometimes, I think, what else is in my future? why not just let it ride. I am working more on me, finding things that make me happy again, and H can take it or leave it. I can't change him, and I still don't love the person he is at this stage in his life. Maybe I never will again. It's the facts that I am facing.

Something about this makes me very uncomfortable. Maybe I'm just paranoid from the ways that I was burnt by "friends" in my situation but she seems a bit ghoulish...wanting to be involved in your situation like that. I'd be very careful about what I told her if I were you. And, yes, I have to agree with you. Sometimes it's better for friends to *not* want to talk about it with you. It makes it too easy to dwell on things if people are always asking about your situation.

But you seem to be doing much better about thinking things through but keeping calm as of late. Good job. Looking back on my situation, that's a really important step for your health and any chance of repairing the R. Good job, WCW.

I’ve been thinking a LOT lately. Surprised? About my life, past/present/future. What I’ve come up with is that H and I are very compatible physically, and by that I don’t mean just in the bedroom (I think we are anyway, he has lashed out and said other ideas that I haven't recovered from), we have common interests in hobbies, business and can work hard and side by side in a physical way, we can spend a ton of time together physically, have great times together in each others physical presence, have in depth conversations and reconcile differences or agree to disagree on organizations and groups we volunteer and support. All great stuff.

I don't mean to pee on your rainbow but I want to throw something out there. This is *your* view of the situation. Something is different about how he views things. I'm not saying that he is right or wrong...just that you wouldn't be where you are right now if you both shared this assessment. He is unhappy about something. If it isn't the particulars of the situation it's something about the way the two of your interact or it's MLC or it's some combination. It might be really hard to not focus on what you are missing right now but keeping your ears open for clues as to what *he* is missing... You know? The whole "Get more romance by being more romantic" reciprocation thing? But that's not to say that, whatever it is, you can do anything about it.

But we have fallen apart in the ability to support each other emotionally, verbally, talk about our needs, fill our dreams. It’s not there now, and hasn't been for a long time, even were falling apart even before the Big Fall, which explains so much. H told me that my actions after learning of his actions prevent him from sharing any of his feelings and thoughts with me, he doesn’t trust me, and he’s held hardy to that policy. He says nothing of what he does day to day, of the plans that he makes, of what he has decided, and if I try to ask he gets very defensive and it’s none of my business. He asks nothing about me, what I do, how I feel, how is my day. I tested this on Saturday with asking him some questions about some future business plans, I thought that was a neutral subject we could discuss. There is no daily support of each other, none of the casual, how are you today or how was your day? I also realize that I don’t know how to ask for what I want, what I need. It isn’t just now, it’s been how I have always been. I struggle with putting what I want ahead of anything else. Not all the time, but most often. I know I am wrong to make the assumption that someone will just know or care enough to just put me first, but wouldn’t it be just grand? To be someone’s priority. Well, it ain’t gonna happen.

You've mentioned that before, WCW. It really sounds like it could be a cop out to me. Maybe he really truly feels that he can't open up to you for fear of repurcussions. I know that you've struggled with being very angry at him sometimes. Not that that is bad or not normal. Or, maybe, it's just a ploy so that he can keep doing what he is doing...EA and whatever else. Either way, it seems that your best bet is to just focus on getting yourself happy and content without him.

So, what do I do for me? Part of my reflecting and drifting back thru my life has brought to the surface, again, that I was at the happiest point of my adult life when I was in between marriages. Doesn’t that sound horrible? It’s a long story of how I got to be that single happy person. And that is most likely why I attracted a guy that I assumed I would be so compatible with for the rest of my life. Why am I married now if my happiest time was when I was single? I am looking for the answer to that question, and taking a long time to figure it out.

You're between marriages right now. You guys are functioning as roommates. If you are at all like me, you were happy when single because you were taking care of yourself. You put yourself first. And then, at some point, because this is what married people are "supposed to do", you may have started putting your H's priorities first. Or at least what you *thought* were his priorities. Again, if you are anything like me, that can make you very unhappy pretty quickly and start a cycle of "Well, we're not happy. I'll try to make H happier and then he will reciprocate and I'll be happier". But if you try to guess what makes him happy, rather than asking, you do a lot of work and don't improve the situation at all and then get more stressed. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. That's that whole LL thing again.

on my back, napped a little, he let me lay close enough to touch him, all less than 30 minutes, and he was gone. And now here I am writing this and feeling bitter because I am thinking how lucky and fortunate that he would ALLOW this much to happen, that he would give this much to me, and then I think, WAIT A MINUTE! Who left the marriage? Who walked and found pleasure somewhere else? WTF am I doing, thinking thanks for how lucky I am he let me lay close to him? This morning I was so very close to asking him ‘what did you think on Saturday, did you expect more? Or were you disappointed?’ I chickened out. Now I have to vacuum feathers again.

This sounds very much like him dipping his toe in the water. That's really great that you were able to *approach* physical intimacy. It sounds like he is very skittish. Afraid that you are going to nail him if you don't get what you need. And that's sort of how you reacted, no? You got a little bit of good stuff and then wanted to punish him, no? That would have been a "Love Buster". I think you made a *really* good call in *not* nailing him or starting a R talk. But, you know, people pick up on your internal thoughts. You just can't hide body language completely. I'm sure that he sensed you were uneasy. If there's a way to change your outlook...to just enjoy the moment when they are good and not worry about it when they aren't...you'll be happier and you'll give off better vibes.

Hang in there, WCW. It's hard when you are right there in the middle of it but it seems like there is some thawing happening these past few weeks. Please, when you start having those bad thoughts about what you aren't getting, "Stop sign! Enjoy the moment. Enjoy the moment."

Where have those simple times gone?

But more importantly, is what I'm doing now helping me try to bring them back?

Keep your chin up, WCW. Your doing a good job but could do better by trying to see the positive side of things and practicing the thought-stopping.

[Phoenix_spark]

A lot of what Kiwi is saying here rings true. Keep going WCW.

[WCW]

Kiwi, thanks for jumping in with your perspective. You’ve been here with me from the start, thanks buddy. I sure appreciate it when you swing by. How did it go last week?

Yeah, this girlfriend got way too intense for me, I had to break away. It did get to be almost ghoulish, you are correct, and thanks for reinforcing that feeling I had. You’re good!!

Keeping calm. I told someone else it’s like a duck, floating smoothly across the water while paddling like mad under the surface. Actually though, a very dear friend finally got thru to me in a way that I could finally understand detachment, in his words, less consumed. Just a slight change of wording, but it worked for me in a way I could deal with. Thanks, aynesr. Just for that, you have been a bigger help than I can explain.

Alright, Kiwi, you can pee on the rainbow, just don’t hit the pot of gold! Eewww. I’d make you help me clean it up you know! Pronto!!! Now it’s all very true, what I write is my idea and my perception of the R, but that’s all I have to go on. Yes, he is unhappy with me and at home, I would be too if I were him. But much of it is what HE has created (sleeping arrangements, clothes, excluding me, etc…), sure I’ve done my share on contributing I admit. He also knows and I have told him in the past that I am open and willing to work on this, and it will take much hard work from both of us to change anything. In any direction. What is the path of least resistance? To just leave things the way they are. Does that make him happy? No, I don’t think so, but it’s his choice on how he can find what makes him happy. And if it’s not me and our life, shouldn’t he be man enough pretty soon to say so? Or I should be woman enough?

How we interact. I stole this off bravagal thread, but she said it so well. “Here is the problem. I do feel hurt and therefore do what I have always done in these situations: withdraw. He feels like he has disappointed me and hurt me and feels guilty. So HE shuts down too! Conversation becomes a bit reduced and stiff. And we are both feeling sorry for ourselves and disconnected.” My H and I have always had this problem and known this and have never fixed it. I’ve tried very hard not to withdraw and shutdown during this, but it does become impossible at times. I’ve even compared and told H that he and I are just like he was with a horse he used to ride. The horse would flinch, H would tighten up, the horse would feel it, and bunch up, H would get tighter, the horse would be ready to buck for the NFR, and H would get mad at the horse… H knows how that was.

More romance by being romantic – whew, you know how scary it is to reach for this? I was SO surprised that Saturday’s events happened at all, and progressed to the point we did. Did I really chicken out? Or reason that safe is better, just try and enjoy being close, the rejection isn’t as big or quite as hard to deal with. The results were more than I expected or even ready for myself, maybe H is more receptive than I have been ready to admit. Am I so tired of baby steps that I’m ignoring them? I’m racing ahead to see what’s at the finish line rather than pacing myself on the backstretch.

Cop out – explain this some more. Am I copping out? Or is he? Or are we both? Probably both is what I see. I really do think I have tried very hard to keep sharing with him until this last big setback. I don’t anymore. I did try to draw him into conversations to ask me about anything, and he just doesn’t, and to me that means he doesn’t care and he is too preoccupied with……… And yes, his cop out is that he doesn’t trust me to share his feelings with me. Give me a break. I’d like to say just grow up and look in the mirror, and talk to yourself until you understand what I have been going thru for over two years, and you say YOU don’t trust ME. But yet, have I EVER gotten to the point to tell HIM I think I can forgive all of this? No, I tell myself that I can, but I have never seized an opportunity to even try and tell him that. Stubborn? Proud? Yes, I am, geez, German and blond too! But it that what he needs to hear before he can talk to me again? Is that HE needs to trust me, to not fear repercussion? And how do I just say that?

In between marriages, again – wow, you’re right. I’m only married on paper right now. We’re roommates, but I’m not married in a physical sense, or emotionally anymore. Something I told H a couple years ago, was that I did have to start putting me first, making me a priority in my life. He said he felt the same way, that’s what he had to do too for himself, and at the time his priority was BOW, but I didn’t know it. Sh!t, there I go again, bringing her up. How do I let go of talking about her?

Afraid I was going to nail him? Could be he was. I think that’s how I started out, figured if he wouldn’t ‘put out’ it would be my chance to bring up a talk about R and M and the future of us. But no, I don’t think I was out to punish him for anything. Do you think that’s what he thinks? Did I screw up again by backing off? Could he actually be disappointed? Or grateful? We never touched in a sexual way, or what I think would be, we just touched.

Is what I am doing now trying to bring them back? Quite honestly, no. What I am doing is trying to bring ME back to the person I was, a happy responsible reliable trustworthy person that is fun to be with. If that brings the simple times, the better times back, and leads us into the future, I should be ecstatic, right? Why do I feel like something is missing? I do admit there has been some change in the last few weeks, at least we’ve got past most of the tension of just being in each others presence. That sure makes being roommates easier. And really, most of the rest of my life has been going pretty decent, so I’m not near as doom and gloom as it seems when I talk about this R and M. Geez, that’s not good either is it.

Phoenix, thanks for the 2nd on what Kiwi says. The young whipper snapper seems to make sense, doesn’t he?

Anyone following the Olympics? Ice skating looks so easy. We used to load up the kids and go pay $1 each to go skate for a few hours on weekend afternoons. Nice family time. I figured it was a success if I stayed upright the whole session!

[AKiwiWannabe]

Kiwi, thanks for jumping in with your perspective. You’ve been here with me from the start, thanks buddy. I sure appreciate it when you swing by. How did it go last week?

Mediation is actually in about an hour. And it is going to be a bloodbath. She wants everything I have and her millionaire father has funded her lawyers. I really have no recourse. She's basically going to wipe me out. All of this from a woman who cheated on me multiple times, is still living in my house with her OM, and from what people are telling me is very likely pregnant by OM. Marriage in "no fault"/equitable distribution states is a complete scam. Let's just say that I've pretty much had it with the marriage thing for a while and leave it at that.

him. But much of it is what HE has created (sleeping arrangements, clothes, excluding me, etc…), sure I’ve done my share on contributing I admit. He also knows and I have told him in the past that I am open and willing to work on this, and it will take much hard work from both of us to change anything. In any direction. What is the path of least resistance? To just leave things the way they are. Does that make him happy? No, I don’t think so, but it’s his choice on how he can find what makes him happy. And if it’s not me and our life, shouldn’t he be man enough pretty soon to say so? Or I should be woman enough?

Do you think that the blaming thing is holding back progress? I know that it is really tempting to assign fault but I'm not sure that now is the best time to do that. It doesn't move you toward letting go of the anger and then perhaps moving toward reconciliation. Maybe after you reconcile you guys can each sit down and take the blame for your contribution. For now, can you think of a way to let the blame thing go? I think doing so might help even in your day-to-day interactions. Remember, he seems to be looking for ways to make this a nagging/critical/unsupportive W thing. If you are upset with him and hurting, I'm sure that it colors your interactions.

just like he was with a horse he used to ride. The horse would flinch, H would tighten up, the horse would feel it, and bunch up, H would get tighter, the horse would be ready to buck for the NFR, and H would get mad at the horse… H knows how that was.

Using your analogy, someone is going to have to relax. In your situation, I think that's going to have to be you. That's why taking care of yourself, as an individual, is so important.

Cop out – explain this some more. Am I copping out? Or is he?

I meant that it might be a cop-out on his part. He can continue whatever it is that he is doing with OW by immediately turning the tables and assigning the blame for the situation to you. And you back down because you don't want a fight. But don't put too much stock in that.

have I EVER gotten to the point to tell HIM I think I can forgive all of this? No, I tell myself that I can, but I have never seized an opportunity to even try and tell him that. Stubborn? Proud? Yes, I am, geez, German and blond too! But it that what he needs to hear before he can talk to me again? Is that HE needs to trust me, to not fear repercussion? And how do I just say that?

Don't say. Do. What can you do to make yourself happy? To take care of yourself? Would, in your mind, giving the old relationship/marriage up for dead allow you to get past the hurt and get to a healthier place? I'm not saying leave or be mean or neglect him, but you've been struggling for so long. When is it time to give up on trying to give the old marriage CPR, focus on getting yourself into a good place, and then hope that something new and good will blossom out of your new attitude but not *needing* that to happen? In the meantime, can you consider him just a roommate? A friend with benefits(hopefully, someday ).

emotionally anymore. Something I told H a couple years ago, was that I did have to start putting me first, making me a priority in my life. He said he felt the same way, that’s what he had to do too for himself, and at the time his priority was BOW, but I didn’t know it. Sh!t, there I go again, bringing her up. How do I let go of talking about her?

Don't tell him what you are going to do. Do it. If you do it for yourself, he'll notice. *Take care of yourself* but be open to him if he chooses to open up to you again. As for her, to hell with her. Honestly, she must be really great if he has had 2 years to jump ship and he hasn't yet. You're a good person, WCW. Do what you can to improve yourself...keep the good, fix the bad...and do what you need to do to be healthy and happy. After all of this time, there's probably not much you can do to change his mind except take care of yourself.

Do you think that’s what he thinks?

In my not so humble opinion, I think that that is what he wants to think. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. As long as you are on eggshells around him, he knows he can bluff you into backing off by playing the nagging/critical/lack of support card. In doing so, he is pushing you way. Get judo on him. GAL, take care of yourself, go from him pushing you away to you moving toward things that make you happy.

Did I screw up again by backing off? Could he actually be disappointed? Or grateful? We never touched in a sexual way, or what I think would be, we just touched.

Maybe. Maybe not. Eggshells, WCW.

What I am doing is trying to bring ME back to the person I was, a happy responsible reliable trustworthy person that is fun to be with.

Excellent. I'll bet everyone here is looking forward to hearing about your adventures with your new life and your new roommate! You deserve it!

Phoenix, thanks for the 2nd on what Kiwi says. The young whipper snapper seems to make sense, doesn’t he?

Thanks, WCW. I often think that I might be overstepping my bounds. What the hell do I know? Just a 30 something with a failed marriage. Not exactly an authority on all of this. But I guess that I'm on the other side of the limbo now and looking back and trying to share with you the things that I think would have helped me.

Well, mediation is in 5 minutes. Wish me luck.

[Again!]

WCW
haven't posted to you in a bit, I have kept up, I have just been wallowing in my own stich. Bad thing to do I know. Between the nothing is changing and the OW, and the realization that I continue to screw up, I have left off giving advise to others when I am so lost myself.
You are doing so much better than you realize. Relax take care of yourself and let things happen as they may with your "roommate."
BTW, I loved the breast stroke joke. Did you send that back to everyone whom I sent my joke to? If so, you sent it to my H also.