Quote: Ah, so you know about the PA. Well, then, why his sudden issues? I'd say that he promised OW not to cheat on HER, lol. That big guilt is coming from somewhere. Anyway, it is a possibility that YOU are starting to become the interesting one to him in all this mess as the one he is sneaking around with, lol. WTF knows.
Yeah, really. WTF knows. He doesn't! I had claimed to him in the past that I wasn't sure that we should continue this - indicated to him that it was beginning to bother me. Asked why, if he was so "in love" with OW was he still doing this with me and it was messing with my head. Maybe he's remembering this.
Once, last fall when I had snooped, I found he had sent an email to OW claiming "I haven't slept with anyone but YOU since"...whenever they started and he's always been faithful to her, blah, blah, blah. I almost choked on that one...especially since we never stopped - not sleeping in the same bed, not anything sexual...whatever.
I had continued our sexual relationship for a few reasons...even while knowing about his PA.....it seemed like it was the only "good" we were experiencing in our R. Now, it seems a little curious - anyway - I mean, if you think about it, we've been together (?) 9 years - and it's only gotten better for us in that area. I know people who have been together for less than 3 years and rarely sleep with each other and it's a problem for them.
I mean, if we can cultivate our sexual R, in fact - MAKE it good, why can't we MAKE the other parts of the R good? Sex could suck between us. I know what he doesn't like - he knows what I don't like. Yet we choose and know how to make it good, for each other, as well as ourselves. So why don't we (he) CHOOSE to make good all the other parts of our R?
Quote: Anyway, with respect to OW and the kids, just tell him that you are concerned about the kids and prefer not to have them introduced to OW until you can let them know together. Also, you might suggest that you check with a professional to see what the best way is to go about it. But, put the responsibility squarely on his shoulders. Because that is where it is. Ultimately, the kids will meet her when HE decides, no matter what he promises you. Here's a thought you might share with him. The kids should NOT be the path to the next level, he should be on that level before he brings the kids into this. Why? For two reasons. First, if he feels as though introducing OW to the kids is that high stakes, then he will lose freedom once he does so to really evaluate where he is and what he wants. He'll feel he has to stay with her (more or less) because he took things that far. Second, it will be difficult and confusing for the kids. They shouldn't have to put up with it UNTIL he is sure that he is invested in seeing it be a LTR or M.
I'd like to be able to say something like this to him....yet, he continuously denies "heavy" involvement with OW. Well, sometimes. Sometimes he doesn't. Confusing.
I'm also afraid that whatever I say will be taken negatively and that I'm his adversary.
I also don't want to "ASSIST" his R with her in any way....lol, let him make his own damned mistakes and screw things up on his own. He doesn't live here - he can't blame me anymore. Devious? Probably.
Quote: Baby girl, July 9. My first, his third. Both second marriages :-) I am so grateful for DBing because now I know what I want from an R and appreciate it so much more. It is a totally different second M than I would have had otherwise, I'm sure. It is what a healthy passionate supportive honest trusting M is supposed to be like.
I'm so happy for you! Ahhh...the 1st baby! Here's wishing you a happy, healthy, EASY delivery!! I have 3 little girls! Thank goodness each delivery was quicker & easier for me...well, the last one was a C-section; but the 1st 2 were so quick I didn't even have time for any pain meds. I was very lucky. Hope you are, too.
I really hope with DB'ing I can come out of this like you - whether with SO or some other lucky guy! I like learning this stuff. I don't ever plan on having a stagnant R again.
Quote: I will likely not be around much, I hope. I have a HUGE STRESSFUL PROJECT that I am procrastinating on, and it is so much more immediately rewarding to come here and help people... But, I have to buckle down and work like crazy.
Please - procrastinate for a little while longer! LOL - Really, we will miss you when you decide to focus on your work. I'm sure I can speak for a few others that would agree! Nonetheless, thanks for your advice, it really helped me pull my head out of my ass today!
Quiet morning....not much contact from SO. An email simply asking "Awake", I replied yes. Then "that was a lot of words" to which I responded "LOL - sorry. Yes, I'm awake, thanks. And you?" No reply.
He called to speak with D7 before she left for school; didn't speak with me. A little while later I got email: "How are you w/ money and supplies?" To which I responded "Supplies, OK. Money $$ which I'll be going to store later." No word from him since.
Don't know what I was expecting.....or hoping for. Those are things I have to stop doing - expecting; hoping. Not easy.
I have a feeling he may renege on taking the two little one's tomorrow night. I'm not sure, of course - just a feeling I have and I want to be ready for it. I've made plans with a friend to go out....I know if I say I have plans that will just start him questioning me and I need to be ready for that as well. Then again, maybe he won't ask and I'm getting all worked up for nothing.
Even with scripts, I never seem to be able to pull off the "air" that I need to. He always seems to ask questions in a way that catch me off guard. I need to be prepared for anything...or nothing. Big sigh.
Gosh, these Cainercasts get to me sometimes. I usually don't read my horoscope until the day after....I'm always afraid I'll twist the meanings around to fit what I want to hear....kind of like song words....lol, but sometimes this guy just scares me!
Quote: Nothing is quite as it should be. That, though, in a strange way, is exactly how it should be! There are times when it is right for some things to be wrong. If everything seemed to be just fine, you would be getting a false impression and, in the long run, this would be much more problematic. Currently, sources of tension and trouble in your life are making themselves undeniably obvious. At least, that way, you know where they are. This weekend, you will also begin to see what you can do about them.
I swear - it's these little digs that hurt the most. The phone calls to D7 and hanging up without speaking to me. The one liner emails. The obvious disinterest in anything regarding me.
He did send me an irate email w/ a fwd attached from my nephew which says "speaking of {My sister} ....she doesn't want me to talk to you anymore....she thinks you have problems....sorry...i don't know what to do."
He thinks I had something to do with this. Truthfully - I've been too upset/humiliated - whatever - to talk to anyone. I haven't spoken to ANY of my family since before I went to Florida. When he went to his nephews b-day party, HE was the one who opened his mouth and told them that I was moving out. Now, he's blaming me for all the crap that HE started. I emailed him back saying I haven't talked to anyone since before I went to FL, so I didn't know where any of this is coming from. He refuses to believe me.
I know enough to try and NOT react to this. It's still hard - I don't care what anyone says.
SO called a little while ago...asking me if I'm sure I want him to take all 3 kids. LOL - I knew he would do this. He said he would be all right just taking D7 to a movie...I quietly stated that I already made plans to go out - he jumped all over that, so I deftly (I hope! LOL) changed the subject.
We covered a few topics - most importantly he's still stating that no one else will be there. Quietly again, I told him thank you and that I was putting my trust in him on that and it meant a lot to me. He asked if I discussed things with D7 and I told him I briefly told her they were going to be with him, but that I wasn't comfortable getting into any details without us doing it jointly. He agreed.
He asked if he could take some dishes; said he would have to buy some silverware. He kept saying he wasn't feeling well; was sick; not eating or sleeping right. I didn't get much of a chance to say anything to that. He told me what he had done so far tonight (opened a concert) and that he was headed to his bar show. When he realized again that I was going out tomorrow night, he tried to get me to tell him the details - then said he would have to borrow a station vehicle (all the kids won't fit in his sports car w/ all their car seats!).
He then asked again about my plans - asked if I was going to visit family - that turned the talk to the email from my nephew. I told that wasn't where I was going and that I had no idea where the talk was coming from up there. I stated again that I hadn't spoken to anyone since returning from FL and that I wasn't ready to talk to any of them yet. And that I won't talk anyone until I am ready. He said OK. I told him that I hoped he believed me, because he didn't seem to. he said he did, and I let it go.
All in all, the convo left me a little down. Nothing bad was said, but reality is here, I guess.
Got some friends lined up for tomorrow night. I'll be finding additioanl support in some Smirnoff Ice, as well.
I really hate today. This is going to be very difficult for me - watching my kids leave with their father who currently thinks being a part-time dad is better for them than trying to repair things with mommy.
I hope I can keep up a brave front while he's here. I've got my outfit planned, lol - nothing overly sexy, just new stuff he hasn't seen me in. Not that I plan on going anywhere until late this afternoon, yet if he asks I'm going to say I have a few errands to run.
I'm thinking about going to mass this afternoon. I haven't been in probably 10 years. Don't ask. Excuses, lack of faith - whatever, has kept me from going. However I've been wanting go back on a regular basis for about 7 years. No excuses left now.
OK...he just IM'd me:
SO [9:57 A.M.]: ?
Auto response from ME [9:57 A.M.]: I am away from my computer right now.
ME [9:58 A.M.]: hey
ME [9:58 A.M.]: how are you
SO [9:58 A.M.]: ok. you?
ME [9:58 A.M.]: OK, all things considered. What's up?
SO [9:59 A.M.]: stealing tghis wireless broadband fr somebody in this ncomplex
SO [9:59 A.M.]: whats wrong
SO [9:59 A.M.]: ?
ME [9:59 A.M.]: lol.
ME [9:59 A.M.]: nothing,
SO [10:00 A.M.]: yes there is
ME [10:01 A.M.]: no, I'm all right
SO [10:01 A.M.]: what are your plans today/nite?
ME [10:02 A.M.]: I've got some errands to run this afternoon. Little sh!t. Don't laugh - I may go to church at 5, then headed out w/ some friends.
ME [10:02 A.M.]: Maybe do some cleaning around here.
SO [10:03 A.M.]: barb?
ME [10:03 A.M.]: Yeah
SO [10:03 A.M.]: $XX good?
ME [10:03 A.M.]: Yes. Thanks. I know the truck needs gas; I'll also need some things from grocery store.
SO [10:04 A.M.]: ok, i gtg before mcDs cancells breakfast
ME [10:04 A.M.]: ok, SO
ME [10:04 A.M.]: see ya later
SO [10:04 A.M.]: I will let 2 and 3 sleep/nap before I leave w them today
ME [10:04 A.M.]: ?
SO [10:04 A.M.]: ok?
ME [10:05 A.M.]: here?
SO [10:05 A.M.]: yeah, they wont nap here
SO [10:05 A.M.]: or is that not good
SO [10:05 A.M.]: whatever
SO [10:05 A.M.]: ?
ME [10:06 A.M.]: It's ok...I didn't know, however it's ok
SO [10:06 A.M.]: OK
SO [10:06 A.M.]: SEE YA
ME [10:06 A.M.]: Maybe you can out the fan in the bathroom? LOL
ME [10:06 A.M.]: put
ME [10:06 A.M.]: or stop the water leaking in blue bath. I can put you to work around here! LOL, unless you had other things to do.
SO [10:06 A.M.]: GONNA BE A BIG PROJECT
ME [10:07 A.M.]: oh, ok
SO [10:07 A.M.]: gtg,
ME [10:07 A.M.]: ok
SO signed off at 10:07 A.M.
I'm putting this in because I'm doubting everything I do or say these days. Just wondering if I handled it ok. Also - he's coming here at noon, and now he says he wants the kids to nap first. They nap from about 12 to 3. So what does he need to still come here at 12 for? I'm not complaining, just don't understand - don't know if I should have told him not to come until 3 then. ANy thoughts?
And, if he didn't want them napping there, what about the whole night? ??? I'm wondering if I should suggest that he stay here with them and I will leave. Any suggestions on that?
oh geez, sorry I have been absent from here for few days looks like I missed a ton!
I don't have a lot of time but I want to chime in. In my opinion (for what it's worth) I would not suggest letting him stay there with the kids for the night. I think it will do him good to have to figure tonight out on his own.
I will type more later. Hang in there NM you are stronger than you think (and smarter than he realizes).
Me 54 DS19 and DS17 Married 06/1989 Divorced 01/2011
Yesterday....last night - they were rough. I woke up to a quiet, empty house. One thought keeps entering my mind...that is "How can SO believe that being a part-time father, every other weekend and alternating holidays - how can THAT be the more better option?
I'm stuck on that. I just can't get it out of my head. Was our R so bad that fleeing, seeing your kids part-time, giving it all up for the unknown - the UNKNOWN itself is the preferred choice?
We were together for 9 years. For a reason. It's the longest R either one of us has had. It's got to mean something.
I think what started me off is yesterday SO was changing the babies diaper (And, BTW - how ironic - he grabbed the dirty diaper and his fingers went right in the poop! LMAO!!) - anyway - he said that this was good for all of us. He was now being forced into being a father. He admitted that for too long he used me {as their mother}. He admitted that he would come home and just let me do all the parent stuff. He took advantage of me and never gave me a break. Now I could "go out" and have a break and he could be a dad. That bothered me.
I had to ask him Why? Why he wasn't that way when we were living together. No real answer, of course. Why didn't we commit to giving me a break from the kids and him spending more time with them? The he grabbed a board game and asked if it was OK to take it. That almost got me crying....he asked what was wrong. I just shook my head and said I don't understand. D7 & I would play games and you would never join in. And now you're going to do this with her.
So now they are all going to come here all smiles & happy because they had a good time together and it was fun. In reality , he left here at 4, drove for an hour. Fed them, put the 2 littles ones to bed, then watched Tom & Jerry with D7 and went to bed. Woke up this morning (calling me for instruction, BTW) makes them breakfast and is headed home. Wow. He really only spent a few hours with them, if you look at it harshly. They were either driving or sleeping the rest of the time. and that makes a father? That makes a BETTER father? That makes a better life? I fail to see it.
And where do I fit in? Yes, I needed breaks from the kids. Him & I needed breaks from them as well - to focus on us, spend time together as a couple instead of just as parents. Time that was never made. Everything else was always more important. His fans, his job, his car - no money, no sitter, blah, blah, blah. Of course the R suffered. If you don't water a plant - it dies. You don't put gas in the car - it dies. Fail to put time, love & energy in a R, it dies.
And yet, yesterday, while the kids were napping, we find time for a roll in the hay. Oh yes, once again - cultivating the sexual part of the R, but ignoring the rest. And he said some things about that as well that bothered me. His claim that he's not sleeping with anyone else right now - just me.
Thoughts that ran thru my mind but I didn't speak out loud: Oh OK, so for almost 2 years now you've been having an EA, as well a PA, and NOW, now that you've moved out for less than one week you're NOT sleeping with her anymore? Maybe it's true, maybe it's not. what difference does it make when you've given up on our R?
And then, "see we're getting along better already. Before all we used to do is fight and have sex. Now we don't fight anymore and we just have sex and it's good." Gee, thanks. Once again - if we get along so well in the bedroom, then why not extend it to all other areas of the R? Oh, and what about OW? The one you're "in love" with? The one you won't stop seeing, the one who's R is so much more important right? Aren't you CHEATING on her?
And what do I do with this? Stop sleeping with him? Turn myself into the OW? I mean, as Oldtimer put it - he's not my SO anymore. He's not in a committed R with me. He hasn't indicated he wants to work on things. Rather, keeps stating that he loves me but NILWM.
I wonder if my hangover has anything to do with this tirade.
While however slight it might be that you feel he is starting to contribute, he is trying. He can't become superdad overnight. However, if you continue to thank him and let him know how much you appreciate whatever it is that he is giving you may see that you get more out of him. Or not. Some men can never do it. They can't simply because they are still children themselves emotionally and they can't share their Ws attention. But if you give it time you'll see which way he leans with it.
I've been a single mom for 6yrs since my D. My exH comes around whenever it is convenient for him. He is starting to come around a bit more these days, perhaps either GF is pushing him, he's growing up finally at 46, or maybe it is because my SO is now gone from the house. Who knows? Who cares? If he takes even a few minutes I have learned to be appreciative of him. This all comes from a man who never changed one diaper, never fed one meal to our D. He was one of the few men that "couldn't do it." I remember one day our D had diarrea. I couldn't change the diapers or bathe her quick enough. The whole time he stood there watching me take care of her. Couldn't even hand me a diaper or wipe. When it was all done, I couldn't help but laugh. Who was this man?
On the bright side of things, look at it this way, your SO is actually learning and gaining an appreciation for all that you have done with the children through the years. That's worth a pot of gold. You're earning his respect right now. Raising children is not easy, we both know that. He also appears to be lightening up a bit because you are not pressuring him or not appearing to pressure him. Thus the comment "see we're getting along better already. Before all we used to do is fight and have sex. Now we don't fight anymore and we just have sex and it's good." I understand what you are saying about the gee thanks dude...but he doesn't see you as the enemy...that's a good thing isn't it?
He wasn't there before because he probably never felt he had to. Did you ever drop the rope and let him try? Sometimes as mothers, we're afraid to let go to let the men help because we don't feel that it will ever be good enough for the kids.
True you are not in an R with him right now. I've never considered having ML with my WAS. I figured as long as he wasn't willing to bathe in bleach I wasn't going there. It's a personal choice. Women do tend to become more emotionally entwined with ML then men do (it's the nature of the beast, what can we say?)...so it depends on where your head is at. If you can emotionally distance and have no expectations then, do whatever you feel is in your best interest and the best interest in the future or lack thereof the R.
