Quote: hey, maybe it will be easier because now you can drop the kids off at his place and HE can "babysit" his own kids?????
I've thought of that....however, then enters OW....something I'm trying to put off for as long as possible. I mean, for pete's sake - D7 has been watching us sleep in the same bed together right up til now...she doesn't even know Daddy's moved out yet - how will OW being in his apartment screw with her head? The thought makes me sick.
SO got here about 1/2 hour later than he was going to today....he did come with a new DVD/VCR combo to replace the one we have who's VCR isn't working. I thought it merely needed to be cleaned, but his guilt must be working OT. And, with little kids - I really need that VCR, Lol! (Not that we don't have 3 others in the house!).
Anyway, on his way here, he texted me that he "drank too many red bulls"....this was code for he was wanting ....
I replied with "LMAO - what's that mean?" Him "whatever YOU want it to mean." Me: "Hmmm...I know what I HOPE it means. " He didn't receive this one before he arrived.
So, he's here and he's acting very, very strange. Very quiet...seemingly (hopefully!) sad & morose. He was in the kitchen with the girls and he asked "What's for dinner?" Then edited himself and said "What are you guys having for dinner?". D7 said spaghetti & meatballs. They head to the living room and SO says "I'm sorry about the red bull texts. They were uncalled for." and continued into the living room. At this point, I felt a little like a fool about my last text that he didn't get.
As I was making dinner I went and asked him if he wanted to eat with us. He said yes. I finished dinner and called everyone to the table. While they were headed in, I went to the computer and FWDed a copy of the text I sent him to his email address along with "Now I feel like an ass.". I knew he wouldn't get the text until he was back in cell range and knew he would check email while he was here and I felt silly that he implied, I agreed, then he took it back.
While we were eating he asked me again about the texts. I was in a good mood, had been upbeat around him - not blue like he was acting. I indirectly answered him, chuckling a little. He asked why I wouldn't answer him. I asked if he got my last text and he said no. I told him that I FWDed it to him. He asked what it said but I was too embarrassed to tell him. He got up and went and checked his email, came back and asked why I just didn't tell him that.
After I got home from grocery store, etc., he asked again...if I wanted to. At this point, I did, however it was starting to feel like something not quite so intimate - rather something purely for physical reasons. But I said to myself, what the hell. So we did. I felt a little used, but then I used him, too. I'm trying not to think if it means anything or it doesn't at this point. Maybe in the future, I'll have to rethink this, but for now, I was OK with it. And, he even asked me: "Should we be doing this. Are you OK with it?" And I said yes.
Afterwards, he made a real quick exit. I knew he was tired, and he was almost falling asleep here. Like I said, he also seemed very, very down in the dumps. He said to D7 as we were downstairs saying goodbye "Say a prayer for all of us, please honey."
He called again a few minutes ago....asking again if what we did was uncalled for....I told him, No, it wasn't uncalled for and I was OK with it. He said he was sorry he left so hurriedly but he was real tired, then I did something I usually don't get to do...I took control of the call and told him "that's ok, I know you're tired. Have a good night" {ending the conversation}. He seemed a little surprised and said OK, talk to you tomorrow.
Don't know if what we did was really uncalled for or not. Some other things I forgot...while I was making dinner, D7 decided she didn't feel like going to girl scouts so SO told her she didn't have to, but to ask mommy. I came into the living room and told her that she had to go. She started crying & acting up and SO said don't make her go if she doesn't want to. He was laying on the couch and he grabbed me, I bent over him - heads upside down to each other, while holding his hands...I said what's going to happen when she's a teen and is "too tired" to go to school? he said, she's going to go to school. I said what happens when she gets older and is "too tired" to get a job or go to work? Then I looked into his eyes (yeah, upside down - think of that Spiderman scene) and said quietly, but matter of factly, there's times when we all have to do things we really don't want to do. He said, "Don't I know it." {BTW, D7 went to girl scouts.}
He also took one bar of his soap from the bathroom. He's got a whole 10 pack of it, so I told him he might as well take it all because I don't use it I have my own brand. He said - I don't need to take it all. I don't want to. He also didn't take anything else. Nothing, no clothes, shoes, not one thing. He stated that he has nothing at his place - no dishes, silverware, etc. ..but he didn't even take "HIS" cereal bowl (yes, he's got a special one. lol)
He questioned what I did in Florida...I think. He said "Were you thinking of having sex when you were out" I said no, then he overlapped with "or didn't it come up?" I'm not really sure if he meant in FL or when I was at the store. ??
Right now, I've realized that I didn't really thank him for the VCR/DVD thing. I asked him what it was, and he said it was a new one. I responded with "Thank you. I think the VCR only needed to be cleaned." I'm thinking that I will send an email that specifically thanks him for it. He didn't have to buy it, after all.
Sorry if this is scattered...I'm just trying to remember things. I think all in all, today went well. I didn't want to act "too happy", I mean it is the day after he moved. But, I was upbeat, pleasant, and tried to be as conscientious as I possibly could about what he was potentially thinking / feeling. Kept my tone mild & pleasant. I think I did OK.
Am I the one living in the fantasy world? It seems as though everyone knows about what's going on....everyone knew he was going to move out...everyone knows about OW being significant in SO's life. Everyone but me. Why do I feel like such a fool? Why does he deny, lie, insist on downplaying her existence?
I can't even type "X"SO here on the board. Am I in some kind of denial? How do I wake up? Isn't that what he truly is? That's what everyone out 'there' knows it to be.
I don't know why I'm feeling so down today. I know, shake it off.
OK...to get to work: My "more of the same behaviors" and solutions: 1. Emotionally distancing myself from him - something I always did that he said was a problem. I always kept everything in until it exploding unconstructively Solution: Not sure how to handle this one with our R being as it is at the moment. ??
2. Sarcasm; his perception that I was being bitchy: Solution: Always maintain happy, upbeat mood in his presence and all interactions with him.
3. My inability to say "thank you" for both little and big things; my failure to compliment (seemed I always critiqued rather than praised); lack of appreciation; lack of respect for his work Solution: Since he seems to be a "WOA" and "AOS" type of guy, consistent yet, honest, truthful praise & admiration.
Don't ask me what I'm doing. Today I'm hurting bad for some reason. Taking a cold hard look at yourself is never easy.
OH MYGOD! He's asking to take the kids to "his place" this weekend. I can't deal with this. So soon. D7 doesn't even know he's got his own place. What the hell? I can't do this. The email: " I would like to bring D7(or all 3) to my place sat at noon till Sunday afternoon, dont worry, there will be no other people there that you dont approve of. It'll be like camping out at a hotel room, plus give you a chance to be away from them for a day. Let me know if it works, I hope it does, lets not fight and yell."
What do I do?? What do I say? I do not want them going there. Someone please give me some help. I can't deal with this.
OK - I don't think I've handled this very well. After an initial email telling him how upset I was because this was so sudden, he emailed me back with the following:
"Then I guess I cant see them this weekend, thanks for being difficult. This is the way it is, I told you this was just going to be me and them. "
and after I emailed him explaining I was upset and not trying to be difficult:
"Dont feel like a fool and PLEASE stop crying. You need a break from 24/7 time with the kids. I already told D7 daddy got a small place like a hotel closer to my work, and it will make things better for mommy and daddy not to fight. I think she will think its fun. we both agree that things have to be different if there will ever be a chance again in the future, and this is a big part of that change"
Here's what I've come up with in reply, please someone give me some pointers:
"SO, I'm sorry that I'm not handling this very well. I've never been in this position before. I have no idea what's right or what's wrong. I know you need time with the kids....that's important - it's what's MOST important right now and I understand it.
You haven't even been out of the house for more than 3 days. It probably seems like I'm trying to stop you from seeing your own kids, but that's not it at all. I don't want to f*ck them up. I want us to do everything we can to protect them from any emotional harm, please understand that. I'm sure you feel the same way. If you've told D7 things without my knowledge - please, try not to do that anymore. It's important that we do those kinds of things together - tell her together. I didn't know you told her anything - and it's got me a little upset. Please think of how you would feel if I told her things without your knowledge.
I'm sorry, again - for not knowing how to do this. It's all new to me. I want to be accommodating to you...I'm willing to compromise and do whatever it takes. I'm trying to keep an open mind and let myself be open to anything new.
Right now, we are on new ground, SO. Neither one of us has been here before, please don't close your mind to me or any suggestions I may have. Please. And please - give me YOUR suggestions or tell me what you're thinking.....it's so very important.
You have take a leap of faith here, SO. You have to start believing and trusting in me that I'm not out to get you or harm you or cause you any unnecessary pain. Because I'm not. Really and truly. Untrain yourself from keeping that stuff from me; be more open with me - please.
How about you take them Saturday for the day and bring them back that night? Go to Chuck E Cheese or something in XYZTown - D7's been dying to go there. And - it will make you look supergreat in her eyes!! Or take her to see the Pink Panther or some other movie. I don't think you're ready (or your apartment is ready!!!) for all three of them at once! Or, just take this weekend for yourself....get your place organized. I don't know.
I guess I'm still trying to get everything into perspective here, SO....You still haven't even taken all your clothes...you left your dirty socks here last night...
I have no idea what's going on in your mind. You have no idea what's going on in mine. I want to protect our kids until such time that WE can each respect each other and give each other the space we need to figure out what we each want. I don't want to rush into anything that we could end up regretting in the future. I think, and maybe I'm wrong, but I think things should be taken slowly right now.
We have to be able to agree to a relationship that works for both of us right now - Whether it's friends, co-parents, strangers - and build on that relationship with the honesty and trust of two people who know that each has chosen to be in that relationship (whatever it may be) with the other. Does that make any sense? "
Yes...the ending 2 paragraphs is paraphrased from OT's post on Grasshoppers thread....any advice here is welcomed. I haven't sent this email yet - I'm looking for pointers on how to handle this, reword things if necessary. I don't want to screw up anymore.
Well, I sent the email. He was pressing for my response and I couldn't put it off any longer without him getting all PO"d at me.
His reply "It Makes sense, I am ready however for all 3, but if it makes you feel better, I'll just take D7 to a movie. "
I texted him back "Thank you for this consideration. D7 will love a movie."
I ran out to the store and came back to: "Let her stay over then". I haven't answered....probably won't either.
I feel so backed into a corner. His lies and his deceit have run so deep lately. I don't trust that OW won't be there - either planned or "unexpectedly". I don't believe most of what he says anymore. Whether he's been purposely misleading and deceitful or whether it's my perception, or a combination of both....I don't know what the hell is going on anymore. And until I do, I'm not harming my children unnecessarily. I'm probably wrong, I've been wrong before, and I'm sure I'll be wrong again.
This all seems very contrived to me. Like it's been in the works. Like he's out to "prove" something to OW. Like he's completely written "us" off. How do I handle this? I'm so confused. I'm trying to be confused here on the board and not with him, yet I don't even know if I'm pulling that off correctly. Everything I say or do to him comes off as adversarial.
Do I just let the kids go? Have D7 see mommy & daddy sleeping together one day, and daddy with OW the next? The thought disgusts me. Am I in denial? Ugh!!!!
IMHO, you are being very controlling and you are giving him something to push against that justifies his actions in his eyes.
For instance, you told him what he was and was not ready for. You are also acting like THE parent in the R in charge of whether or not he can have a sleepover with his own child.
Your SO has moved out. You are no longer in a committed long-term R with him. He may or may not be planning to introduce the kids to his GF. You have no control over that. You can express your preference that he wait to do this until the kids have a period of transition and you tell them together about GF. But, you cannot insist on this. You cannot make his seeing the kids conditional on them not seeing GF. You have no control over that. He will do what he wants to do, and lie to you if that is what it takes to have reasonable access to his kids.
You are BOTH the children's parents. YOU are the one not ready for the kids to visit their father. But, you told him that HE wasn't ready and that the kids aren't ready. Really. Would you have had a problem if he took them out of town for a night when you were still together?
I'd suggest that you backtrack. Give him what he asked for this time and tell him that you need to set up a schedule for visitation so that everyone has clear boundaries in this area. Unless you have huge plans, I don't think a night spent with their father is going to hurt them. It hurts YOU because you want to believe that this is for sure temporary, that he's realized he's stupid, that he's already on the way home. Well, none of that is true. It may be temporary, it may not be. No doubt, after the initial pain of separation, he will enjoy having space and freedom from the dynamics that led to this situation. His relief will likely convince him he did the right thing for awhile. He is not on his way home tomorrow. Quit trying to put in stop gap measures until he comes to his senses. Accept that he has gone and you have no control over when he will return. Decide on a visitation schedule. Do not manage his R with his children. Don't put the kids in the center of this thing as a power play.
I know this has to be incredibly hard for you and that the idea of the kids visiting him just makes things feel more real. But things are what they are.
Don't worry about OW. She may well be pushing him to see the kids on his own so that he doesn't have to see you at the same time. Or, maybe she hasn't said a word. But, his leaving, the problems in the R, his need for an R with the kids, etc... are not the fault of the OW. He is making his own choices.
Also, respect yourself in all this. Don't scramble to meet his immediate demands. You weren't ready to email him. Just tell him that -- SO, I need more time to process this. This was a real surprise.
Boy, it hurt to read that. Yet it was exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you. Even though I'm crying my eyes out!! {insert half-hearted smile}
It's funny, I never thought of myself as the controlling one - rather, I thought he was. You're right, however - I'm confusing my hurt and my pain with what the kids may go thru. In reality, we have a 16 month old & 3 year old who really won't understand; D7 will probably just think it's a fun time. It hurts to accept that.
And it hurts even more realizing that I am the one who isn't ready for any of this.
He has never, up to this point, shown any interest in spending time with the kids alone. Taking them out of town by himself? He's barely changed any of their diapers; never spent any time with them while he was here. He only took D7 places - not the two little ones. Says it's too much work. That's why I find this so unsettling. The kids,(and yes - me) - we were all here for the taking - and he chose to ignore us. Even this past weekend when I was in Florida. He chose to go skiing with the GF instead of spending any time with the kids. The kids hadn't seen him from Friday until Monday when he got home. So why the sudden interest now?
I guess you're right. He's not coming home. Not any time soon, probably never. His mind seems made up.
So, do you suggest I let him know I've reconsidered and tell him to take all three kids?
I guess you're right. He's not coming home. Not any time soon, probably never. His mind seems made up.
Ok, so OT strikes again.
I don't know if you have read any of her posts to me or some of the others here, but she's come to be one of my favorite people here. Her first post to me had the same effect.
What I wanted to say is that you are reading too much into what you were told. Nobody said he was never coming back and no matter how bad you feel about realizing that YOU were projecting your fears onto your kids/H, it doesn't mean that anything has changed. Your H is gone RIGHT NOW. Just because he wants to see his kids alone, at his place, does NOT mean he is never coming back. The two thing are completely unrelated. As far as his mind being made up, he doesn't know WHAT he wants right now, so in my opinion it would be just about impossible for his mind to be made up about anything, let alone the M. The hardest thing to do is to let go enough to allow ourselves the room to grow and move past the destructive, sometimes controlling behavior. It's what you need to do.
Also, you said you always thought H was the controlling one. Welcome to the club. I thought my W was too. Know why? Because I somehow equated somebody actually communicating what they wanted, and allowing me to do that as controlling. I always equated my silent suffering and subjugation as nobel somehow. I thought since I never asked for much, or demanded anything from her, that I could never be controlling. I was dead wrong. My version of control, and the type many of us suffer from here, is where I come up with my idea of how things should go for any given situation. When things deviate from my preconceived idea, I get upset and start behaving in a way to hopefully get what I want. Never did I just come out and say what that was, but God forbid if you, or the situation didn't live up to my expectations. That's what makes it so hard for me to let go and just let things play out. I had to learn to let go of my thoughts and just live in the moment. Maybe you need to do that too.
Quote: My version of control, and the type many of us suffer from here, is where I come up with my idea of how things should go for any given situation. When things deviate from my preconceived idea, I get upset and start behaving in a way to hopefully get what I want. Never did I just come out and say what that was, but God forbid if you, or the situation didn't live up to my expectations. That's what makes it so hard for me to let go and just let things play out. I had to learn to let go of my thoughts and just live in the moment. Maybe you need to do that too.
Rings dead true to me.
Crow Jane, Crow Jane, come 'on, I wanna know,
how you love some man, but don't love me no mo'
.... 
" He didn't receive this one before he arrived. 
