Learning to Trust Myself VI

[grasshopper]

Heather,

I am assuming you have read all the usual suspects, right? I am reading Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus and there is a lot of stuff in there that really addresses your issues. If you have read it then likely you know what I am talking about, if not then maybe you should give it a try.
I also agree with the post that says despite any communication problems you and your H have, he clearly is doing more than simply acting out the male need for independence, etc. I just think, like we always say, YOU are the only one YOU can change so maybe altering your take on these things would help him realize he needs to as well.

GH

[heatherg]

Your H is creating a "us against her" sitch in your house and that's just wrong.

That's *exactly* how it feels. And seeing S5 wake up every morning in bed with H and seeing how S5 reacts toward me vs how he reacts toward H is truly heart wrenching sometimes. Overall though, even though H continues to have problematic moments, it IS getting better. S5's attitude toward me has changed dramatically over the last few months.

A couple posts ago when I said I was jealous of the R between S5 and H, Jabez asked a few questions. H is truly interested in S5, although most of what S5 is interested in are things that H has steered him toward because H is also interested. For the most part, that makes sense....I mean, I think parents tend to do that. In my case though, it just seems to strengthen the feelings I have of being an outsider. Mostly, I just see that H has so much love to give to the kids and I just wish he cared about me and my feelings like he cares about theirs. It's not really that I wish I could be the one playing the Spiderman video game

Heather, I'd say that the "booking a flight" episode is another great example of where you could just say to H from it's very inception, "You take care of it", without you being involved an any manner, shape or form, not one iota, making it all his responsibility to handle.


Good point.

I've been reading the book "I Don't Have To Make Everything All Better", it's about validation. Here are three ideas from the book that I'd like to share with you:

I've been trying to get to the bookstore to get that very same book, to no avail b/c I haven't been able to leave H with the kids. I didn't want to order it from Amazon b/c it would take too long, but I'd probably have it by now if I just would have ordered it. Maybe I can get to B&N this week. I think I would be served very well to learn these types of communication skills. I do not feel very kind toward H most days, so it is really difficult to temper my words with something other than what I'm actually feeling. I'm an expressive person and that can be really hard to mask.
Since I don't have the book yet, those points at least give me something to think about. Thanks!

Every time you broke out the duct tape, every time you stopped yourself from repeating some pattern that wouldn't work, every time you sought a compromise solution, whether H accepted it or not, whether it worked well when he did or not, you were "putting your heart in it."

Thanks Joe. I guess I'm just concerned that H can tell I have my hand on the door....the fact that I have had him served with D papers and talked seriously about leaving twice after that can leave him questioning my level of commitment. The fact is, I am committed, but only if he is as well. When long periods of time go by whereby I don't see any commitment from H, I go back to preparing myself for the worst.

I hope your visit to Charm City turned out well.

Thanks, there were good moments. And not so good moments. The good moments were seeing my niece look so adorable in her b-day dress. Seeing how much my kids appreciate their cousins and the time they spend with them. Swimming in the pool with them. Telling them 'No babies, we aren't almost there yet'. Ice skating. Room service. Sleeping with D3 at the hotel....having her wake up in the morning and not see me and ask "Daddy where is Mommy and Tucker?" Daddy said Mommy is right behind you and she turned around and saw me, snuggled in and closed her eyes again, content. S5 got to have a sleepover in his cousins' room. Watching them sleep on the way back today because they were so wiped out. Gosh I love my kids.

The only real bad moment that stands out is when H mentioned that there were only two rooms for us, his parents and his sister and her two kids. In the current state of our R, where we're not sleeping in the same bed, I am not about to suffer the embrassament of sharing a room. I'm flat out not doing that. So I told him that I am not sharing a room. I told him why. It pretty much ruined the rest of the trip up there and made me feel very defensive and I mostly wanted to avoid him and not speak to him and just wallow in my disdain for him quite frankly. But underneath all that, it was because I was hurt. Hurt that we are still not sleeping in the same bed. Hurt that he wouldn't say 'It's not a big deal Heather, we'll sleep in the same bed'. Hurt that my M is such an embarassment to me that I am ashamed for family to know how things really are. Hurt that my H wants to continue to make me feel hurt. It sucks. And I hate him for it. Just like he apparently hates me for hurting him like I did.

I felt like I hurt his parents' and his sister's feelings, so later in the hot tub I explained to his mother that H and I's lives are not normal and I just need privacy right now...please don't take it personally. She said she knows and she understands. I believe she truly does.

Oh and Joe.....on the trip back today, I wrote some. Just thought you'd like to know!

I am assuming you have read all the usual suspects, right?

I read Men are from Mars Women are from Venus many, many years ago before I knew what M problems were I should read it again. I've read Divorce Remedy, After the Affair, Five Love Languages, The Emotionally Abusive Relationship, In Sheep's Clothing-How to Deal with Manipulative People, Relationship Rescue and several others that I don't remember the titles of right off hand.
I'm always on the lookout for a new book though, so if you have any suggestions, fire away.

It's good to be home and I'm going to bed. I'll keep you posted on the MC session tomorrow.

[heatherg]

H called at about 10 minutes after 11am to tell me he had to drive out to the Coleman bridge, so things 'weren't looking good' for our appt. I was silent. Finally I said, 'Can't you go after lunch?' He said "What are you talking about 'after lunch'? Last time it took two hours. I don't know how they expect people to do this." I said "Ok, I'll call. I'm just frustrated because as I see it, counseling is our last hope and if we can't give it a committed effort, then I don't know what's going to happen." He said "Oh, so now it's a matter of commitment to the counseling?" I said "No, I wasn't making a dig, just making a point."
I called the counselor and she said she could fit us in at 4pm. H said he would try. I called at 3pm to make sure it would be alright and he said if traffic and everything went perfectly he would be able to make it. As I was getting to the office, he called and said he wouldn't be able to make it until 4:20. I said "Ok.....earlier the receptionist said if you couldn't make it on time she could just send you back when you got there." He said "So you're planning on going without me....let's not start this again". I said "I'm not trying to start anything again. It's not that big of a deal, but if you think it's that big of a deal, I won't go in until you get there". He said "We've been through this before, did you think I'd changed my mind about it?" I said "Whatever, I don't know, I'll just see you when you get there".

So he got there at about 4:20 and I will journal about the session later. I need to get my thoughts together about it, but offhand I feel I 'contributed' more to the session than last time. Which, in retrospect, I wouldn't do again. And I don't plan to give as much input next time. I have been in counseling for over a year. And I have had the benefit of the many books I've read and the counselors I've had. H has more introspection to do than I do and I need to make sure he has the floor until he no longer wants it. Like our first session.

I've somehow decided that I need to take Dr. Phil's approach. That I need to 'earn' my way out of this marriage. I guess that's partly because of my negative attitude lately....this is my way to get my energy up there....get my will to try one last time. In my mind, this is what it is....one last time. Counseling is all there is left for us. I need to make sure I keep my mouth shut as much as possible and give H the chance to heal, the chance to forgive....at the most. At the least, I will give him no fuel for his fire. I will quit this M, if and when the time comes, on a positive note. Where he will have to look back and see that I did give it my all.

That's where I'm at tonight.

[koshka]

Heather,

Dropping in to say hi. Congrats on returning to your writing.

I feel I 'contributed' more to the session than last time.

I know there were times when I thought I'd stay quiet but MC would try to "pull" more out of me. I decided to trust her judgment on how to lead the sessions. Based on some things XW said about me and what she thought was going on inside me, I needed to improve my side of our communication, too.

I hope you can feel confidence in your MC to lead the two of you and your M.

Thanks,

Joe

[blackfoot]

That I need to 'earn' my way out of this marriage.

Hi HeatherG.

Couple questions.

Why do you refuse H sex? Why do you resent his sexual need -- porn/MB-- when he has no other outlet?
Is or has your H had an A, or was it only you? Is this a tactic for dropping LU into his account?

Finally about the above comment.
You quoted a post from MWD to Paradox. You repeatedly say we need to work on this M or D. We are either DOING it or NOT.
From my chair, it seems to me that your H, is firmly committed to this M. (if he is not having an A, and allowed you to come back after yours,--I have only perused the three most recent of your threads)
I do not see that from you, and I know he does not come even close to feeling it from you. His guy code is at level Amber. (why isnt it orange?)


What I see is a power struggle that IMO you are going about the wrong way of deescalating.
Do you wnat to be 'right' and break him/force him to see, or do you want a good M?
His comments about your reading/researching/studing R dynamics as being 'comical' speak volumes to me.

So to be perfectly blunt.
You have gone back to your M, but by damn you are not giving up one shred of power, and not going to have one good feeling about H untill you see him fix the reasons why you were forced to have an A.



So whats the score in your M? Whos winning right now?

Is the way you treat him now, remotely close to how you treated him when you were first dating?

see ya round.

[heatherg]

I hope you can feel confidence in your MC to lead the two of you and your M.

This is an excellent point. I think in the session I was referring to, I responded more to H than I should have. I need to make sure that my responses are to the counselor or are only when I've been asked a question. This is the listening part of conversations that I admit I have trouble doing. There are many reasons for that, but I guess at this point, it's just time to own my shortcomings and not try to explain them away. Do or die at this point, so listen I shall.

Ah, the controversial Blackfoot has visited my thread. Welcome, thanks for taking the time to read a little about my situation.

Why do you refuse H sex?

Prior to the A, there were a few reasons.....although I don't think I truly saw that I was 'refusing' sex. I see it now. Then, I just thought the feeling wasn't mutual, so sex would have to wait. I didn't realize until I came to this board how important sex is to a man for many varied reasons. So, with that being said, my reasons for refusing sex were.....mostly because of his drinking problem. On the nights he was drinking, I was disgusted by him and his lack of control and wanted nothing to do with him. Sometimes that disgust carried over into days that he wasn't drinking. Over time, disgust became an overall lack of respect. I treated him very poorly at times I admit. I did not respect him and his continuation of behavior that I despised told me that he did not respect me either. That angered me because I hadn't done anything to warrant disrespect (in my mind at the time). He was the one with the lack of control, the disrespectable characteristic, not me. I had a reason to disprespect him, he didn't have any good reasons for it to be likewise. So I was angry. That is one reason.
Another reason, I think I sort of touched on above. I didn't realize the significance of sex to a man, H has never fully communicated the significance of it to him in particular, so I did't realize how harmful and painful it could be for him. I never saw it as 'rejection', just as 'I'm not in the mood'.
I can honestly say I never purposely witheld sex specifically to hurt H. If we didn't have sex, it was because I didn't want to, no ulterior motives. Really.

Now, post A, the reason we are not having sex is a little more complicated. We have had sex several times, for particular stretches of time it was pretty regular, about 4 times a week maybe. But as our R did not progress and not much healing seemed to be taking place for H, I started to get discouraged. I started to see sex as H 'getting what he wanted from me' and as just another way to make him content with the sucky status of our R. I guarantee you my H is not like you, so please do not try to project here. After sex, my H would leave me to sleep alone in a bed that isn't mine and he would return to the marital bed. He would have sex with me but would not sleep with me. That was hard to, ahem, swallow for me. Then there is also the fact that he would not kiss me during sex, before sex or after sex. His lips are off limits to me because I have kissed another man. He has told me he will never kiss me again. In short, I came to the conclusion that I could not continue the status quo. I became uncomfortable with the situation and sex has come to a halt. It's not that I refuse, H hasn't really tried. We've hardly been speaking the last month or so much less worrying about sex, so it's an issue that will likely come up again once we make it through this rough patch.

Why do you resent his sexual need -- porn/MB-- when he has no other outlet?

Like I said above, he never fully communicated to me how he was feeling. I didn't have a clue. So, until he tried , I wouldn't say that he didn't have any other outlet.
Sex may be a super important thing for a man. It may be a super important thing for a woman. Fine. In my R, it seems to have been equally valued by H and me, just probably not frequent enough for H. If he would have communicated that to me, maybe things would have been different. Maybe they wouldn't have been. We'll never know now.
Also, just the way you formed the question above about porn is difficult for me to not have a strong emotional reaction to. I am very touchy on this subject. I need emotional connections. I NEED them. H was not meeting my needs. You could say I 'had no other outlet'. And you know what? In my opinion, I FULLY communicated those needs to H. And he still refused. Do you think that justifies my A? Doubt it. It doesn't justify H's porn habit either. Maybe it would under different circumstances, I realize every woman doesn't feel as negative about it as I do. But H didn't marry any other woman, he married me and I'm not likely to change my feelings on the subject any time soon. Perhaps many other men wouldn't go to the lengths my H has about my indiscretion. But I'm not married to any other man, I'm married to my H. He's having the reactions he's having and I have to deal with it. It works both ways.

From my chair, it seems to me that your H, is firmly committed to this M. (if he is not having an A, and allowed you to come back after yours,--I have only perused the three most recent of your threads)

You make a bold statement after acknowledging that you've only 'perused' my most recent posts. There are many reasons, kids being number one, that a spouse may choose to go on after an A. Does that mean they are commited to the M? NO. Does that mean they have forgiven their partner? NO. Does that mean they ever intend to forgive? NO.
I see your point in saying this, however, my H beats to a different drum than you do, I am quite positive, just from reading your posts. That's not a judgment in any shape or form, just an observation. H's reasons for doing things may not be the same as what your reasons would be for doing the very same things.
H may be committed to our M. Maybe I am misreading his actions. Please support you statement with more examples than 'he let you stay and he's not cheating'. That does not necessarily a committed partner make.

I do not see that from you, and I know he does not come even close to feeling it from you.

Fair enough. I admit I'm struggling. I want a M with H, but not THIS M. So, it's tough. I start to feel hopeless when I feel like this is in fact the M I'd have to accept if I want to keep my family intact. But I'm not settling for this, I'm just not. I hate to say, 'change or get lost', but it's kind of down to that at this point. Am I willing to change too? You bet I am. He needs to tell me how he feels, what he needs to be different. He needs to communicate. So far, he doesn't do much of that. So I'm running blind.
I am 100% open to suggestions.

What I see is a power struggle that IMO you are going about the wrong way of deescalating.

I tend to agree. I haven't found what works, and in most cases I revert back to 'more of the same'. Again, I'm completely open to suggestions.

You have gone back to your M, but by damn you are not giving up one shred of power, and not going to have one good feeling about H untill you see him fix the reasons why you were forced to have an A.

Hmm. My first reaction was to say 'not quite, but I have my moments'. But I deleted it because maybe, just maybe, I have more of those 'moments' than I realize. Enough 'moments' strung together starts to become a state of being. So maybe. I'll have to think more about this and a third ojective person's viewpoint is a helpful place to start. But I'm not sure you have the necessary background on my situation to objectively make that statement. But then again, maybe you do. You tell me.

So whats the score in your M? Whos winning right now?

I've read enough to know that's a loaded question, lol. I get your point. I don't think I keep score. I have a lot of past hurts. But I DO want to move on. I DO want to leave the past in the past. I DO want to make our future better. And I DO want a commitment from H to help me make our future better.

Is the way you treat him now, remotely close to how you treated him when you were first dating?

Um.....NO! When I first met H, I had no self esteem, deferred to his every whim. And I do mean every because he had a lot of whims. I couldn't believe this person was interested in me, I had no idea why. Often if I disappointed him, I felt unsure if he would want to keep seeing me. I dedicated my life to him. Seriously. He was very controlling and I had no self esteem to know that it was not a good thing. Getting out from under his thumb was a slow, painful process. And I will not go back to being that girl under any circumstances. The woman I am today would run fast in the opposite direction of any man like the man he was. We met when I was 17 and he was 18. We both had so much changing yet to do. We have both changed in drastic ways. So, no, our R is not anything like it was when we first started dating.

Thanks for stopping by Blackfoot, it seems you can tell I need a kick in the behind and I appreciate your thought provoking questions.

[Corri]

Hi Heather:

You probably don't know me... name's Corri... I usually hang out over on the SSM board with blackfoot and others...

Been reading this thread, though I have not read your other locked threads. I thought I might just drop a few things your way, hopefully they might help.

It's funny... I read your posts and it literally drops me jaw to see how much like you I used to be. Really... in you, I see all that I once was... can certainly understand it, can understand almost, ver batim, everything you've said here, things you've felt... quite astounding, really.

And I have to say that you have inadvertently given me quite a gift. A critcal piece of self-understanding fell into place for me, something I have been trying to 'get' for many, many years.

I'll try and pass it on to you... you may or may not get it yourself... it's really hard, especially when you are smack dab in the middle of what you are in... but let's try anyway... thing of it is...it's really simple. So simple, in fact, that there is a good chance you are going to miss the significance. If nothing else, write it down... put it somewhere, read it every now and then, and one day, it will click for you, too.

I see you being a person who puts a high value on respect, honoring of human dignity, trust... integrity. Core values we all know and crave. I see in your posts that you feel you are missing this from your H, and truly, by your descriptions, he does not and has not really offered you these things. <nod> I can understand the roads you've traveled, the decisions you've made, the regrets you have about those decisions (OM), and I certainly understand you wanting to hang on to your M.

But what I see in you, that I was never able to see in myself... is that you are NOT a person of respect, you are NOT a person of dignity, you are NOT a person of trust, nor are you a person of integrity.

Why do I say this?

Because these are not things you offer to another in trade for in-kind service. These things are not commodities of exchange, which you are treating them as right now.

Rather, they are the pilliars, the foundation of Who YOU Are, regardless of the actions or reponses of another person.

Righ now, you get angry because you feel your H is attempting to control you, or disrespect you by disregarding your wishes with your son (as an example). Your anger, then, allows for the dismantling of what you are willing to trade in-kind. Anger for respect. "You don't treat me respectfully, therefore, I am justified in feeling angry, hurt (whatever), and therefore, not necessarily acting respectful toward you either."

You give up control of Who You Are because of the actions or reactions of someone else. Yet you blame him for trying to control you... (isn't this a pisser? Much easier to blame the SOBs...) He is not taking control of you... you are giving it away... the moment he becomes disrespectful, you do as well. Why would you ever allow someone to change a core value that is fundamental to your being... when you never, ever, ever HAVE to?

A person who's foundation is made up of respect, trust, honor and integrity has no personal investment in how another behaves, and therefore, has no reason to become angry by their actions, regardless of what those actions may be. Here's your simple phrase:

BE, everyday, in every instance, that which you would like to receive from others. Yeah, I know, it's the Golden Rule, plagerized to hell and back... but maybe you can see new meaning in it. Truly feel its significance. It's not a trite phrase.

It is truly this simple. Honest to God.

When you are and act in a respectful, trusting, honoring manner, with integrity, your H's response to you is going to change. He will begin to mirror that which you offer and give to him everyday, without expectation of anything in return. For him to do otherwise, in any consistent fashion over time, will expose his own disrespectful behavior to HIMSELF. You won't have to do a darn thing... except remain consistent with who and what you are... not for him... but for yourself. Because these are the fundamental elements of your being. Period.

So. Think on this for a bit... and see if you can get what I am saying... and then I'd like to ask you... how might you approach your H now about the bedtime issue. How would you bring it up to him again, as a person of respect, trust, honor and integrity?

BTW... I was in court today for the close of my D. Buried my 16 year marriage. Not a route I'd recommend to many. But I can tell you... if YOU don't change at your root level... you are probably going to wind up there.

Why do you have to change, why not him? Well. You don't have to do anything. But if you WANT to be that person of respect, trust, honor, dignity and integrity, you'll do it and practice it until you become really, really good at it... simply because you want to, and it won't matter to you what your H does or doesn't do...

Take care, dear lady.

Corri

[Jabez]

Why do you resent his sexual need -- porn/MB-- when he has no other outlet?

YIKES! Being a 2-yr-old "born again virgin" I can empathize with the lack of opportunity for the release of a male's sexual energy.

- Is pornography an emotionally healthy outlet for that energy?

- Is prostitution an emotionally healthy outlet for that energy?

- Is it possible to develop a R with a picture (moving or still)?

- Isn't porn all about the theater of the mind, letting your imagination run wild with a situation that less of a chance of happening than winning the $300M power ball?

There are some who say that porno is not healthy b/c it sets up impossible illusions of a physical relationship. Porn is also addicting (see Matt's prior problems w/drinking).

I don't think that the lack of sex in Heather's marriage is an excuse for H's porn habits. The habit just can't contribute to getting their R/M on the road to wellness.

[blackfoot]

before I go on. I have a question

is your H an alcoholic?

[heatherg]

Hi Corri, it is very nice to meet you, I recognize your name.

you are NOT a person of respect, you are NOT a person of dignity, you are NOT a person of trust, nor are you a person of integrity....These things are not commodities of exchange, which you are treating them as right now......Rather, they are the pilliars, the foundation of Who YOU Are, regardless of the actions or reponses of another person.

I've been under the weather all weekend, and am still at home today...but I've given this a lot of thought and I sort of get it but mostly don't. Are you saying that it is impossible to be respected or disprespected purely by someone's actions?

Righ now, you get angry because you feel your H is attempting to control you, or disrespect you by disregarding your wishes with your son (as an example). Your anger, then, allows for the dismantling of what you are willing to trade in-kind. Anger for respect.

I think you are saying that my reactions to H and my anger make it possible for him to continue to treat me disrespectfully?

I think you are definitely on to something with my reactions. I am definitely giving something away, hence my feelings of guilt afterward. Some have attributed that to a victim's mentality, but I think you may be more correct. I am too strong to be a victim. That's why I get upset that I'm not strong enough to handle these encounters in stride. Without escalation and without anger. Truth is, I don't know how. So many boundaries have been crossed, there isn't much left but to feel pathetic and angry.

A person who's foundation is made up of respect, trust, honor and integrity has no personal investment in how another behaves, and therefore, has no reason to become angry by their actions, regardless of what those actions may be.

I believe you're right. I can't think of a particular instance, but I know it when I see someone handle something better than I would. Many times, there is respect in the quiet ways people handle things. There doesn't need to be anger. For instance, when my H found out I had betrayed our M vows, had he made it clear he wanted me to leave by a certain date, I would have deemed his choice more respectable than the choices he made instead. And for me, if I would quiety refuse to tolerate such behavior from him and simply move out, I would respect my choice more than the choices I've been making instead. But the fact is, I'm not strong enough to do that. I can't live with the implications of breaking apart our family, although it seems I can't live with the implications of staying either.
My anger must serve a purpose for me. It somehow allows me to survive in this environment.

BE, everyday, in every instance, that which you would like to receive from others.

You're right, this is so simple it can be passed over. I promise not to pass it over. I will write it down and I will do it to the best of my ability because I do think it is great advice.

So. Think on this for a bit... and see if you can get what I am saying... and then I'd like to ask you... how might you approach your H now about the bedtime issue. How would you bring it up to him again, as a person of respect, trust, honor and integrity?

I would say "I understand that you feel that alone time with us is crucial for S5. I feel that a 9pm bedtime is crucial for S5 as well. I think both are very important and I think we can do both. Let's think of some other suggestions where S5 can get alone time with you or and still get to bed by 9pm."
That statement sounds like something any reasonable person would acknowledge. I haven't tried it exactly like that, maybe I will in counseling. I feel like I know what his reaction would be, but like my C says, you have to stop assuming you know how the other person will respond.
What do you think of my statement above? Do you think it reflects the values I want it to reflect?

BTW... I was in court today for the close of my D. Buried my 16 year marriage. Not a route I'd recommend to many.

I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you are doing ok.

But I can tell you... if YOU don't change at your root level... you are probably going to wind up there.


Some days I honestly don't think that would be such a bad thing in the long run. It's the short run that I can't deal with.

I don't think that the lack of sex in Heather's marriage is an excuse for H's porn habits.

Thanks chiming in Jabez!

is your H an alcoholic?

I don't know. He has definitely been an alcohol abuser, perhaps still is. I don't think I'm in an ojective enough position to be able to tell. He has never displayed the stereotypical characteristics of an alcoholic and I have seen the man do a shot maybe only once in our time together. He stays clear of any alcohol except beer. He used to drink 6 nights a week, up to almost a case at at time. It was very much an issue between us and he began to cut back. Never validated or acknowledged through his words, but through his actions, he cut back. Never said why, never said what his goals were, never said if it was easy or hard, he just did it. He went from 6 nights a week to three I think. It stayed that way for years. Then when S5 was born, he cut back to two nights a week, usually 12 beers at a time. Then when I served him with D papers last year, he cut the amount in half again, no doubt fearful I would be able to take his kids away from him. He still 'drinks' two nights per week, but usually only 6 beers at a time and then 6 or more O'Douls which is a non-alcoholic beverage. He has also starting drinking O'Douls most nights, whether it's a 'drinking night' or not.
Bottom line, I don't know if he's an alcoholic but I know it's caused a huge problem in our M and H is very confused as to why my feelings toward it haven't changed even though he's gotten better. I don't have an answer for that. I guess I do feel 'better', but I still hate it. I hate O'Douls just as much, I think he's still feeding his habit and it's still intrusive in our lives (i.e. if we don't have any he has to run out and get it, he smokes when he's drinking so he always has to step outside....whether it's O'Douls or Rolling Rock the ridiculous cycle is the same-from the fridge to outside to watch tv to the bathroom, to the fridge, outside, watch tv to the bathroom, and on and on).