Okay...now we have something we can work with. So let's roll up our sleeves and get to work here.
I love when I say something that gives you "something to work on"!!
Do you think you would feel comfortable asking her for a day date for Vday. Invite her to a Vlunch (easier to get reservations btw) and then shopping for the coat afterwards.
Good idea, but I should clarify. I do work during the week as a graphic designer/prepress consultant and have a set schedule so I am not totally free to do that. I do, however, have a lunch break and I just asked her to lunch. She was noncommittal. I asked if she had plans and she laughed and said no. Um...focus...
I think when it comes to women it boils down to those that are materialistic and those that are not.
Well, she comes from a wealthy family and is used to the finer things in life, but despite all that, she is much more down to earth than, say, her sister who has to have all the best of everything. The materialistic thing is one I have struggled with. She doesn't need/want a lot but what she wants, she really wants and expense is not really a factor. Make sense?
While life does change us a bit through the years, we still do have our passions, interests and desires. Your W may have gotten a bit lost in the way, but I am sure there are still somethings that you can recall about her.
Really, no, there isn't anything I can recall as a passion of hers. She really did subjugate her passions/needs/wants for, well, I don't know but like me, she never really expresses her desires. We are alike in that respect. I am really working on changing that about myself and judging by the phone thing yesterday, she may be too. Good thing I think. I will still try to think of what her passions are and make my own short list. Really, she is most passionate about travel and with this trip coming up, I know it can't help but recharge her. That's why I am so focused on not screwing things up before then!
Thanks Lisa for your input. I really appreciate the in-depth stuff and that story about your gift to your exH was wonderful. I would love to have someone put that much thought into something for me...maybe I should start by doing it for her...
First of all, OMG, have you read the V-day cards there are to choose from? I can't buy any of them without first turning in my DB badge and burning DB/DR! Sigh...will have to look again after work...
Now, NYS...
Sarcasm is one of the most effective ways to kill a relationship in time.
For sure. I should have figured this out years ago. I hope it's not too late. In the past month, I have gone from a TON of sarcasm each day to almost none, especially with my W. I think that is a MAJOR change in me and I am really happy with it. It is permanent but I will have my moments.
n the meantime, learn a better way to handle frustration. Cultivate more patience.
Sure. Easy said... Patience is a weakness of mine and something that since minute one of this ordeal I have worked on developing with great success. If I was my "old self" there is NO WAY I could make it through a day waiting, not knowing, etc. I was one of the most impatient people I knew! Now, much better. Still a lot of work to do on that though.
I don't know what she's doing, but I would not rule out that she's totally stopped seeing the OM. I get indications from your posts that she may still be seeing him. You may not be picking up on it, but I am, FWIW
Oh, I am not ruling out either possibility. I truly just don't know. Sure, there are tons of clues that either he is gone, or that she has just gotten better at lying. I am not focusing on that most of the time, but I would be untruthful telling you it doesn't creep in.
That suggests that she's making comparisons between you and the OM, so it really, really behooves you to become the better option right now.
Ok. So she is comparing. It is a stretch for me to be confident enough right now to think I compare to this "love" she has with OM, but in my heart I know I am right for her. I just need to go back to the man that made her know that too.
Don't buy a card in the V-day section--by now probably all that's left are really crappy anyway. I suggest looking in the blank card section. The cards are much nicer and you can write what you want. Just don't be intimidated and feel a need to fill the whole blank inside of the card and you should be good.
For the record, these are the top 10 changes I have made in my life so far. I'm sure I am forgetting something that should be here but...
1) No more sarcasm - I think I have done a pretty good job of realizing that I do not need this in my life anymore. It is all but gone...for good!
2) I am very open and forthright about what I want and need around the house, with my W. This is important because I have always been somewhat passive/aggressive in this respect. It makes things much easier and there is much less tension in the house.
3) I have gone back to being a gentleman to my W. I am opening doors for her again (she likes this). I am also buying flowers for her/the house every couple days like I used to. She really likes having them around and has appreciated this change a lot.
4) I am MUCH more respectful of her when it comes to how I express my feelings/desire for her. This comes as a natural extension of the fact that we are not intimate anymore, but I had gotten SO bad with the comments I would make that I thought were funny, but obviously she didn't. I would get so frustrated at the lack of ML that I would make sarcastic comments and really do/say things that totally turned her off.
Now I am respectful of that and any comments I make about her are kind and express my feelings without all the low-level garbage (butt grabbing, etc).
5) I am self aware. I think before I speak most of the time. This is HUGE too because I am very stream-of-consciousness when it comes to how I talk. For me to filter took some getting used to.
6) I smile a LOT now. This is a change because my anger and frustration stemming from work stress, the kids, general stress, had made me a sour person, rarely smiling. Now I beam...
7) I am a glass half-full...er...well I am trying to be a glass half-full person. My W has made the comment that I am one of the most negative people she has ever known (about 3 years ago she said this). I really feel that is not true at all, but I understand why she thinks that. I am trying to develop the habit of speaking the positive instead of just the negative all the time. I am doing much better.
8) I am getting back into the things that make me happy outside my marriage. I am playing pool (well I am going to anyway), shooting personal photography projects, actually ENJOYING the more fun work I get to do instead of downplaying it. I used to make my W think I was unhappy with anything I did outside the house because I felt guilty about getting to do things and she didn't. No wonder she thinks I was so unhappy. In truth, I even started to buy it myself. No more. I really like what I do and I am showing it now.
9) Patience grasshopper. Speaks for itself. If it's worth doing, it's worth waiting for.
10) I shower or take a bath at least once a day now. This is good because I suspect my not bathing for days on end may have been an issue...kidding...just wanted to see if you're still reading.
I STILL shower daily, but I am now taking much better care of myself. I am styling my hair every day (spikes these days), I have grown back my full goatee (was there when we met so...), dressing nicely no matter what the occasion and even buying myself new clothes, which I NEVER did before.
EDITED IN:
11) (yea, i know, top 10..) I am honoring my W's requests of me. This is a biggie because she doesn't ask much of me but she seems to ask it of me when it's inconvenient (i.e. could I go into work late and help with the kids) but not un-doable. In the past, I would blow these things off, saying I could not do it. I now make time when she asks me to.
End of edit
All in all, I am doing well identifying what the "old me" used to be like and trying to bring back those things. I know I feel really good about who I am right now and while I cannot claim to have NO dependance on my W for self-esteem issues, I am light-years ahead of a month and a half ago. There is still a ton of work to do, mainly in making sure these things stick, but thanks to hard work, and you guys, I am doing ok.
I suggest looking in the blank card section. The cards are much nicer and you can write what you want. Just don't be intimidated and feel a need to fill the whole blank inside of the card and you should be good.
I want a blank card but didn't see one. I will go to another store. Oh, and don't worry, I have NO fear of filling up a card. My problem is opposite. I tend to write too much. It comes with being a quasi-writer (someone thinks I am good enough to pay for me to do it). I am struggling with that part, along with the gift thing. I feel like this is a big opportunity to do the right (or wrong) thing and I don't want to blow it. What do I write? My feelings? Something generic? Romantic? My one word idea? I know she doesn't like when I write too much so I need to be brief. Express undying love, or friendship? I don't know. It would be really nice to know where she was in all this so I could join her. That comes full circle to the ask or don't ask problem... I will just have to figure something out.
LOL!!! Okay there has to be something with the creative brain and DBing!! I come from a graphic design background. Since you are in Prepress, you have probably heard of a little software package called FlightCheck by Markzware...I helped develop, implement that little piece of software. Actually went on a tour for them speaking and demo'ing at several MacWorlds. Ah, that was another lifetime ago!!
Agreed, I am with your W here. Not materialistic but when I buy something, I buy the best that I can afford at that time. I believe definitely in Quality vs Quantity. Hee hee, my D present to myself was a nondescript jewelless Rolex. My own personal statement.
I think yesterday her expression of what she wanted was a good step forward for her. You listened, validated and let her splurge. Until your comment I bet she was on cloud 9. But you learned from that little comment. Keep validating and she'll move forward a bit.
I wish I could find the site that NYS turned me onto. Lost it in my damn history yesterday...maybe he will post it for you. Some very deep and thought provoking articles there that really opened my eyes to me. You might find something there too.
This is why As are such a learning experience for both the LBS and WAS. They say some Ms are stronger then ever if they can survive. Because we do get lost in ourselves, we give of ourselves until there is nothing left. We lose our identities, our passions in life. It's something that we really shouldn't even though we do. When faced with an A, we have to look deep into ourselves for reflection. The WAS hopefully will do the same.
As for my story, thanks...that's what you do when you love someone.
No, that's what YOU do when YOU love someone. Make the distinction. Sure, we would like to think we would all do those things, and if we did, there would be a lot fewer of us here. You're a good woman with a great heart.
Yes, as a matter of fact, I just got done flightchecking something. It's the first thing I do in my workflow. Small world.
You have her pegged. She does want the best of the few things she wants. I am going to remember that for sure!
As for the giving of ourselves until we have nothing left and the A actually helping in a twisted way, I can truly see that now. In fact, I am getting closer to what I want to write. I think it will be something reflecting on what she said about taking the past 6 months back and how I would not want that because it would mean never getting the chance to love her the way she deserves to be loved, and being loved the way I deserve to be loved. Something like that...
Quote: For the record, these are the top 10 changes I have made in my life so far. I'm sure I am forgetting something that should be here but...
Very good list GH! I would agree that you are light years ahead of where you were just a month ago. Reading your list has been thought-provoking and I guess I should do a little of that soul-searching at this time to examine whether I have indeed made any changes. I think I have, but writing them down would force me to examine whether I truly have. Thanks for sharing and thanks for the idea!
As for V-day, yikes! I never thought I would dread it. I kicked around a bunch of things but finally settled on sending flowers (not a dozen of roses, but a nice arrangement that I helped design). I sent them today as opposed to tomorrow to try and keep the focus off the actual day? I've been buying flowers for our house on a regular basis (we re-did our dining room and an arrangement of flowers really sets it off) so I saw this as a non-threatening gesture. I plan to buy a simple card for her to have tomorrow and possibly a chocholate chip cookie heart (she absolutely loves those things).
Again, thanks for sharing GH. I hope your week goes well.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
GH: I'm going to send you a copy of one of the best cards I ever received...sending it via email though. Lord knows I don't want the folks at Hallmark after me...
So now she says all of a sudden that she wants to go to the mall tonight for awhile. Um, this after "killing time" all day at a shopping center that is better than most malls? Code for OM time. Monday is always date night part 2. She claimed it was "her night" to be alone but the day before V day....hmmm...yea. Sorry all, I am a bit heartbroken. Slap the crap outa me. I deserve it. I really was starting to believe. And before you say I may be wrong, I am not on this one. I tried to suggest she not go, or feel out the sitch and she didn't explain more, just said she would not be gone long. It is the same wishy-washy talk she used to use all the time when she was going out more with him. Also, she basically said she didn't want to do presents for V day either, so she's not shopping for that. I don't know. I want to call her on it. I want to ask what she's going to do.
