Raising the Happiness Bar

[haphazard]

Hi All,

An update on my sitch.

It’s not great. H and I got a babysitter and went out last night to see a movie. The movie was set to start at 9pm so we booked babysitter for 8pm so we could have a drink and chat before the movie. It took about 2 minutes for us to get into a row, and ended with H walking out and leaving me to watch the movie on my own.

The gist of the argument was this: H started to tell me about some good news regarding his business, two of his big clients have set their budgets for the coming financial year and have confirmed his slice of the pie. He feels secure now that he can make what he made last year in the first six months of this year – so that is great. Here I maybe didn’t lay it on thick enough with the WOA. I then started to talk about our domestic budget. Last year we were struggling (mainly because of the tax position we were in). He has set a domestic budget for this year to be the same as last year. So I mentioned that I had been thinking about it and realised that because of the different tax position the net amount that we could afford to put into the joint account each month is actually slightly higher, without affecting what we take out of the business. He immediately jumped on me for this and accused me of just wanting to blood-suck out of the business. Just seeing it as a vehicle for making my life easier while he is working his butt off etc etc. Anyway the row just degenerated to a position where he wasn’t willing to listen or be sensible and he said “you’re just pissing me off” and walked out.
When I got back from seeing the movie, I got into bed he was asleep. This morning I got up at 6.30, did housework, got kids ready for school and left for work. He was still sleeping (or acting asleep).

Anyway here is an e-mail I would like to send. I was just hovering the mouse over the SEND button but thought I would post it here and get some opinions first.

Why can’t you just see me for who I am instead of seeing me as some kind of permanent thorn in your side. I am not out to get you or after all your money or trying to piss you off or trying to control you. I am just trying to have an equitable and sensible grown-up relationship with you. I would like to be able to express myself and have ideas about what we should do without you always putting some sort of negative spin on what I say that makes you look like the poor hard-working martyr and me look like some scheming bitch. It doesn’t really matter what I say or do you will always manage to make out that I am a horrible person for it. You are in a bad place through your own making and you continually seek to blame me for it. Well it can just stop and stop right now. I have had enough of being your whipping boy. I will not longer accept being shouted at about something trivial because you have had a [censored] day.

If you feel negatively about things that I say, then please give yourself some space and time to ask yourself why you feel negative about it without instantly launching an unwarranted attack on me.

I can’t go any further with this on my own I’ve tried and tried to do what you seem to want and I’m not getting anywhere with it you just keep moving the goalposts. It is my belief now that your misery is your own. It is of your own making or it is something you have had within you for so long that you can’t even remember where it comes from. You look to me to make it better but that is not within my power no matter how hard I try. The only person who has the power to do that is you. You tell me things that I can do to make you happier but none of them work, not because I don’t try hard enough but because you are looking in the wrong place for a fix.

I am no more selfish then the next person. I am benign towards you. I want to do the best for us and the kids. Every single day I work hard to provide things that you and the kids need and every single day I spend time thinking about how I can do things to make our relationship better. I can only do so much of this without making myself ill so I also spend time doing things to keep myself mentally and physically healthy. And it is time you took more responsibility for your own mental and physical well-being. My contribution is to continually start each new day afresh, let bygones be bygones, to continually allow your crap behaviour to wash off and to start again with a positive attitude

That’s it.

Thanks for looking

Fran

[Baltoman]

Fran, I am so sorry for the situation at the movies. I see very little wrong with the letter except the last line or two. To end the letter with an attack, however mild (the crap behavior line), will put him back into a "defend his position" mode. My wife and I suffer from a somewhat similar issue, the attempt to color anything the other says or does in a negative light. As I put it to her we do not trust each other's good intentions. I would try to end the letter on a more constructive note, maybe saying that you understand some of the stresses he is under but he needs to understand that you have his and the children's best interests at heart and when he feels otherwise he should step back and try to remember that.

Good luck.

[chromosphere]

Fran,

I think your post illustrates very clearly the point that has been made recently about how easily we can get into a mode of assuming bad intentions from our spouses whether they are actually there or not. As you clearly stated, your H assumed sinister motivations to your money management, and that escalated into a general fight about the relationship.

I personally think the best tack would be for you to directly, calmly address the money issue, separate from anything else. If he tries to escalate or make ludicrous assumptions, call him on it, and don't back down.

I would be leary about the letter. Although the words you speak may be true, well-spoken, and clear, these sorts of disputes are rarely solved by letter exchange, in fact, they generally just tend to escalate. When you write a letter, there is no give and take, no body language to soften the statement, etc. It is my prediction (for what it is worth) that your H will read that letter and become even more angry. It doesn't matter if he should or not, that is just typically what happens. Depending on the MO of your H, you might get a nasty letter back.

I think it would be best to take care of the money issue first, then LATER bring up the general respect, good communication issue. Just my 2 cents.

Chrome

[haphazard]

Thanks Balto, Maybe I will change "your crap behaviour" to "hurts I feel"

[haphazard]

Hi Chrome,

To be honest I thought that was what I was doing, his reaction seemed off the wall and I tried to calm it down and make it clear to him that I wasn't being grasping, just trying to think of sensible ways to manage our joint finances.
When you write a letter, there is no give and take, no body language to soften the statement In the past I would have agreed with you here, but these days Chromo he takes my body language and tone of voice to be negative no matter how hard I try to soften it. If he perceives it as soft he perceives it as me manipulating the situation to my favour. He has in fact reacted better than I expected to written communications in the past. The words are not laden with tones, and there is no body language so he just gets the words and deals with them the way he wants.

thanks for your input though.

Fran

[chromosphere]

Fran

OK. That sounds good then. I think a lot of people don't respond well to letter exchanges, but if you have had success with it in the past, by all means use it. I would read it over again carefully though and see if you can find anything that might be misconstrued as you wanting to start a fight. It doesn't mean you should take it out, just be aware of how he might respond. Good luck.

Chrome

[Cobra]

Fran,

I am trying to relate to what made him angry. I know you mentioned that he does not feel he has much control in the M. So something good happened at work, he has made a huge deal that takes a lot of pressure off of him, and know he can breathe a little easier. Finally things are going his way and things may be moving out of a chaos/panic state, in which he is worried about the business and you financial security, into a situation in which he now feels like he has CONTROL. He was obviously very happy to tell you about this. And even if you gave him more WOA, the fact that you came back with wanting to pull some of this money, this visible evidence of his level of control over his own business, and put it into the checking account is what I think may have set him off.

If his business is finally turning the corner (and this must be viewed in his mind, NOT yours), then why don’t you just leave well enough alone for a while. Let the excess funds stay in the business until there is a pattern of more jobs coming his way, and he can feel assured this is not a temporary fluke before going back to chasing dollars. That is not a comfortable position to be in, for any entrepreneur. Having a cash cushion is a critical component to peace of mind in any business.

In short, I can see why he got upset, and I think you are not doing everything you could to put yourself in his shoes and be more empathic to what he is feeling. Now don’t get me wrong on this – I am not saying he is right and you are wrong, but you cannot claim the opposite (that he is wrong and you are right), which is how HE WILL READ your letter.

You two are suffering from a severe lack of communication. And I think this is because the root fears and desires are not being addressed. Your letter is relevant in that you need affirmation, that he needs to reign in his reactions, and not view things in such a pessimistic light. But he is not posting here, he won’t likely listen to what you say in you defense, so all you can do is slowly set up boundaries to keep him within limits and try to LISTEN to him. Why don’t you just ask him why he got mad? Ad when he tells you, DO NOT rebut him, just listen, ask questions for clarification, NOT justification, and let him know you are listening.

[haphazard]

Hi Cobra,
Thanks for your interesting response. It really is so helpful to get a guy's point of view. I didn't actually send the e-mail in the end as I had to leave work and go get the kids and I wanted to get feedback here before I sent it anyway.

I think I see what you mean about power, he feels powerless in other areas of his life not necessarily the M. It fits with his general tactic of using me as a whipping boy. I also do understand what you mean about being more empathetc to his point of view. I thought about this some the next day, because H is a worrier and I am not, I find it hard to imagine that he might be worried about something. Often we have got into arguments because he is feeling pressured about something and I don't actually understand that he is feeling pressured about it. I don't understand that because in his shoes I wouldn't feel worried - I have to really stop and think *yes but if I were a worrier maybe this situation would be making me tense*.

I think you are right, I think the money in the business account is a security blanket and he does not want anyone messing with that. I will keep my mouth shut about it and just keeping letting him know that I think he is doing great (which he is ). I always knew he could make it if he just struck out on his own but he has been very nervous to try, so I have to try and remember that someone who has taken this long to do something that others thought would be so easy for him is bound still to be worried about it. The thing is he is a VERY talented software professional, and I should know I have managed a fair few of these guys in my time, he does have faith in his talents but he still seems to feel as if he has more to prove. I've just got to stop thinking he is WRONG to feel that way and realise that he does feel that way - full-stop (or should I say period).

Thanks Cobra


Fran

[haphazard]

Hi All,

Hope you had a good weekend. Let me tell about mine. On Saturday we went to a 40th Birthday party. The guy who’s birthday it was is a good friend of H’s and was best man at our wedding. So we were looking forward to enjoying ourselves at the party. We got to the hotel early so we had a little time to kill and I hinted at what I fancied doing in a hotel bedroom with time to kill. H took the hint! We had a good time. I said afterwards that it was a shame we didn’t do it more often. He said it was a shame he didn’t have the same amount of energy in the evening as he does in the afternoon.
We showered, got dressed up and went to the party both in a good mood. I looked stunning -though I say it myself - and H scrubbed up pretty well too.
The party was a meal at a very expensive and very fabulous restaurant. There were about 16 of us round the table and a seating plan had been made so that we weren’t sitting next to our partners. We had a private dining room set aside for us. It was an eight course meal (where's the slaver icon!) with an awful lot of very delicious wine to wash it down with. So you can imagine that we were all pretty drunk by the end! I don’t remember much after the cheese course. However I do vaguely remember getting slightly amorous with one of the other guests. Oh the shame. I don’t think anything too serious happened - I don’t think I even snogged him.(Snog=french-kiss just in case you're wondering). I just had my arms round his neck and he had his arms round my waist and I think if H hadn’t showed up at that point we may have ended up snogging. I can’t really remember what H said, just something like, oi that’s my wife.
Anyway I woke up in the hotel this morning feeling mighty ill and not remembering how I’d got there. I groaned about not remembering anything after the cheese course. H said *probably just as well - you behaved very badly* the inkling of memory surfaced but I didn’t say anything. After a pause I said *what bad thing did I do?* So H told me that he’d found me carrying on with C. *C?!?* I said *Oh my God! I’m so sorry I really didn’t have a clue what I was doing* H’s reply was that he felt humiliated and that if I was going to go around doing things like that at parties could I kindly make sure it was parties he wasn’t at. I apologised again, I made no excuses, I just said I’m really sorry that was an awful thing to do. H got up and said he was going down to breakfast.
When he left I started to cry, I realised that he had not seemed angry with C and that all he seemed to care about was that I shouldn’t do that sort of thing IN FRONT OF HIM.
I also realised that during this LD desert he has pretty much stopped making complimentary remarks about my appearance, and that I particularly missed him doing that last night because in a situation like that he normally would. Part of the sex starvation, as many of the HD people on this board are experiencing, is the lack of any type of sexual behaviour from the partner. Minimal things such as affectionate touch and little comments like *you're gorgeous* can go some way to make us feel better about the lack of actual sex. I’m not complaining just about lack of sex it is the lack of any feeling of desire coming from H that really upsets me. Even though we ML the night before it was still me initiating - and he was pretty slow to pick up my hints.

I digress. I went down and joined H for breakfast and he seemed relaxed and not angry with me. We went back to the room. He then started to talk about the other idiotic things that the guys got up to once they were back at the hotel and then mentioned that he had wanted to punch C. I said *I’m glad you said that because I was beginning to feel like you couldn’t care less, like the only reason you were cross with me was because of the embarrassment* He immediately got very annoyed with me and started shouting that I was so selfish I even managed to make THIS into his fault. I said I wasn’t making it his fault, that I was sorry for what I had done and that it was nobody’s fault but my own. What I was talking about was not what I had done, but about his reaction to what I had done, and how it seemed to fit into a pattern of his behaviour in the last few months. He still kept shouting at me that I had no right to talk to him that way, that I should just be apologetic and try to make it up to him, that I was diverting away from what I had done and just trying to make him look at fault. I again repeated that I was sorry and that I wasn’t diverting attention just that the incident and his reaction to it had clarified something that I had been struggling with, the general sense of him not really caring for me anymore. He then said that he found it difficult to be loving when all I ever do is try to have power over him (that power thing again!). He went away for a cigarette and I sat and thought about it. When he came back I said, if I seem to you like I want power it might be because I’m scared. I’m scared of getting older and less attractive, I’m scared that my earning power has been cut drastically by staying home with the kids for 6 years. You are the one with the power, you could walk away and see just as much of the kids as you do now. He then said *well why do you think I don’t*. I said *I don’t know - because of the kids?*. He said *because I do love you*. I said well I love you, and if you love someone you should let them go, I should have let you go 3 years ago instead of kidding myself. He gave me a hug then, and I said *I was looking at you at the party and thinking how handsome you looked, and that you were the best looking guy there* (which is true I was). He said *it’s sweet of you to say so* After a while he finally said I was the prettiest girl there (but this is something he would normally have said without any prompting - LOL).

He ended up saying that he forgave me. I did NOT say *I should darn well think so, I forgave you for a full-on affair*

I felt glad about the way things had gone in the end. There was a lot more said but I can't remember it all. Because I was so ill I felt different and seem to be able to argue in a calmer kind of way - maybe because I felt like dying anyway I wasn’t feeling too risk-averse to be honest for a change - LOL

Fran (feeling a little less ill)

[blackfoot]

ahh alcohol.

I recommend a B-complex vitamin, and lots of water. Better to drink it before you go to sleep, but if you cant remember that almost snogging is for you H only, sheesh, cant expect to remember to take that silly hangover cure either.

Hap you asked about why I cut off EC to my wife.
It was not quite as simple as this.

She nagged at me. She wouldnt give me space, she kept focusing on what was wrong instead of right,
she kept picking at an insecurity that with some TIME and PATIENCE would have been set right, and the last straw was she responded to OM assertive initiation during a party. Nothing that would seem that big. But I know attraction.

she didnt even respond to him. She told me about it. but I could clearly see that it had a profound effect on her. In retrospect I have no doubt that she was looking for some reaction from me.
So what was my reaction when she told me?

" mmm thats nice."

Why was she telling me?
trying to juice me?
get a reaction?
make me jealous?--- BF dont play that.
Did she expect me to do something about it?

NMJ- NOT my job. (former thought patterns. have since adjusted. A little. ) its her heart, her actions/reactions. She is responsible for them. If she wants to be with me, she knows--or should (hahaha, lmao, should-- I said should)how she is supposed to behave. Its her heart to take-put where she wants. I didnt quite get the switch that you are supposed to make when you go from dating that disallows jealous,needy, stalker type but in a LTR cherishing protecting is required.

Oops. next time hopefully.

She she stepped on that boundary again. He did his thing, she came looking for a reaction. Nothing. (x:'Maybe BF didnt see it the frist time'. Very insulting. )
Again. Still No reaction. Bang bang bang her head on the wall.
then after much bawling, and struggles at reconnecting/ (wasnt gonna happen by the way. not rewarding nagging, negativity/inability to see the positive, or needy, insecure looking for validation outside the M.) she said 'F it'. BF doesnt care about me. OM does. Understandable. her perspective. she is entitled to it.

The beginning years of our R when I was a bartender I didnt come home from work and tell her about the girls flinging themselves at me the night before. I didnt expect or need her to do anything about it.

MY job, to keep my heart, my reactions, my pants on. There is NOTHING she could have done if I chose to take them off. I didnt keep them on because I was infatuated with her. I wasnt faithful, because she was taking care of all of my needs. It was my choice. I may not be able to control my attraction to OW, but I sure am responsible for my actions.
The next day when we would sit at the table and count my tips, she would always pick the phone numbers, and sappy drunk notes out of the bucket and want to read them. I'd tell her to quit, I dont want to hear them. Throw them away. Its not how I met her so it wasnt like it was a threat.

Anyways. There is one mans perspective. Id say your H cares. he even said

'Oi. Thats MY WIFE'. notice the possesive phrasing.

I’m glad you said that because I was beginning to feel like you couldn’t care less, like the only reason you were cross with me was because of the embarrassment

Im not saying it was wrong, but that was your feeling. your thinking he doesnt care about me, instead of thinking damn when my H had an affair, it really Fing hurt. He is probably really hurt that I was making out with another guy.

So let me get this straight. You, as a responsible, self accountable adult, who was half of the almost snogging equation, wanted your H to slug his friend C? Why would slugging C have made you Feel better? Would you have felt better if he slugged you? Are you not both equally accountable.

Ok ok. Ill stop. I understand your feeling. I get it. Im a guy though and I still dong like the Illogic of it. Ill get over it.

He then said that he found it difficult to be loving when all I ever do is try to have power over him (that power thing again!)

There is another lady, heatherg, struggling with this same thing. Your H is telling you what he needs, very UNclearly.

So Im going to stop picking on you now, at least for a bit, and try to just offer you some proactive things to try. Here is a good way to judge what you are doing. ask yourself.
Am I respectful, Am I honoring. Yes its that easy. Takes lots of practice though.
Is your inner voice positive, hopeful, appreciative, admiring of H? Or the opposite.
What do you think of his recent business success? What have you communicated (not said) to him about it?

frankly from what I see you post here, its not positive. I do know this place is a good/necessary place to vent. Hopefully you and the ladies hear are encouraging each other, instead of comisserating. Well at least tooo much. I cant tell you if your inner voice should be positive, or not, but if you want a better M it has to be
What you think/ focus on, is what you will say, do, and vibe.