The flowers were a suckup gift and I chucked them.
D6 retrieved them, to H's immense delight. LOL
I had no right to get so worked up about the gift. He's been slacking the last couple weeks and I put too much emphasis on this one day as "the" day when he would finally give me his attention.
That's why Valentine's Day sucks. Too much pressure.
"You are gonna hate me for this but I honestly wasn't even thinking about you as a lover, I was just focused on getting you a gift from the kids." Ouch. At least he sees the error of his ways (sort of). But you'd think by now he'd "get it" But the other side of the coin, we've let slide due to having little ones and can't seem to get back in the swing of things. How do other couples do it? I think your date idea is a good one. H and I are lucky because we have all the grandparents in town to help out when we want to go out. We make it a priority now. You NEED adult time away from the kids. Stick with it. Why does it seem that one partner hungers for couple time and the other one really doesn't? Would the pendulum swing back the other way if I were suddenly to become as detached as he? He says it would. I told him that is NO comfort to me. I say BS to his comments that if you became detached he would step up to the plate more. Or am I not reading that right? Then we got into a rollicking semi-arguing discussion re: religion. Until midnight.
I think he and I are still passionately in love with each other for the sole reason that we are complete opposites and piss each other off so well. I think it's good for couples to have some passionate fights. Keeps things interesting at least H and I are opposites in a lot of ways too. Boy can we piss each other off. But we are both learning that it is ok. I think it's good that you are arguing religion and not just focusing on what the kids have been up to. You need to stimulate each other's minds with some adult conversation. Get out of mom/dad mode more often. No wonder the mom necklace went over like a lead balloon
Gosh HP. The only plus I see here is that your H is actually able to articulate things like "Gee honey, I really don't think of you as a lover." Kudos to you for not saying, "Then I'll find someone else who will." I'm sorta in that catty, sarcastic mood right now and I might have said something on that order or at least thought it.
I think you had it right when you said that you are both just some regular folks trying to raise your kids, have a life and keep some spark for yourselves. That is how I feel about H and I alot of the time. I am just so livid with him right now that I am projecting my need to shake my H onto your H. I want to shake him too. Mr HP, "What would it take for you to see HP as a lover. That is what she wants. Why do you persist in momizing her?"
Well - putting my more rational hat back on I have to ask - did your H offer any solutions?
Before you get too focused on his thinking Valentine’s Day is NOT for lovers, be sure you know where he is coming from. MY wife, and I know many other women, shift focus from the relationship to the kids. She would rather I involve myself with the kids to show my affection for her. She puts the kids first, so if I do too, then she feels I am supporting her wishes. Giving her a VD gift as mother then means more to her than a VD gift as lover, see what I mean?
This may be dysfunctional, but from what you’ve said about your H, I wonder if this same dynamic occurred in his family? If his father was controlling and abusive, it makes sense to me that his mother would focus on the kids and not her husband. So you H was trained to do the same, since he may not understand, or have been exposed to, anything else. And in this way, his intentions were right on target. He was thinking of you first!
But your background leads you to focus on your needs. And his act is not in line with your expectations. The only way to close this gap is to do what you did. Talk about it and be sure each of you understand exactly what is meant by each word you use.
If I am right about his thinking, then your jumping to conclusions (that his is not thinking of you first) has put him in a catch 22, don’t you think?
It is good he owned up to and shared his feelings, and I'm glad you didn't turn them back on him. So, did he offer any plans to get back to thinking of you as a lover? That is the next step, IMHO. I'm sure that was a big step for him to share that with you anyway.
He just was not making the connection between VD and lovers. He says that he was thinking, Get her a present from the girls and we'll have a nice night together. ???
I said, Come on, H, there is lover/sexy stuff all OVER the place at this time of year and I'm supposed to believe that it slipped your notice and you were focused on being a good dad..?
He made a pretty good case that this was so. He did make me a lovely card and wrote some nice things in it, so I shouldn't say that he did nothing for VD but he gave me the present first thing in the morning and then by evening, he was fairly detached and we put the kids to bed and he watched a movie. It was more of the same on a night when I was thinking of something different.
LustyBabe, Yes we need time away from our kids. Desperately! He freaks if anyone is watching except for me or his mother. That leaves me with not many options. And, like I said earlier, he's gotten into this mode of waiting for me to do everything and he'll either go along with it or override it with his bad attitude. Fooey on that! I pointed out to him last night that the last date we went on that was his idea was Valentine's Day 2003. Fellas, if you let 3 years go by without taking your wife out, you are going to have one crabby, neglected-feeling chick on your hands.
HP, Would he be open to doing the grocery shopping with you and the kids? Not a very romantic thing, but doing little stuff like that together can help to take the edge off. While MrsGGB and I don't go out on dates much, we do frequently leave S16 in charge while we run out the the grocery for a while. Not sure the dynamic would be quite the same with 3 kids in tow, but at the very least it might help to have a change in scenery.
As for the babysitting, I know all about the not wanting to leave the kids. We didn't go out for close to 10 years after S16 was born, mostly because MrsGGB wasn't comfortable with leaving the kids with anyone. Even when we did start to go out (which was once in a blue moon), she'd call home every half hour to check up on them, and insist we get home quickly regardless of our plans. It will take a lot of effort on his part to get comfortable with having a babysitter. Might help if you find a babysitter with red cross certification. S16 and S13 both completed the red cross course for babysitters and are certified. At least then, you know the babysitter has had basic first aid training and has learned about basic child care. I'm not sure where to get a list of certified babysitters though. Ask around.
Anyway, you gotta get him to loosen up a little. The health of your R is at stake. You two need to get out.
One other thought… Have you considered that maybe H des not know HOW to enjoy himself, to focus on himself only, to be a little selfish? Going back to my understanding of his family and his tendency to be people pleaser, it seems to me that he never grew up thinking of himself. He was always focused on pleasing his father to keep the peace and prevent another explosion.
This is “parentification,” where a child assumes too much responsibility in the family because the parents are dysfunctional. The child takes on too many adult responsibilities (often the case with alcoholic parents). The result is that the child’s emotional development, sense of self and ability to relate to others is severely stunted.
It is not that your H is insensitive, or does not care for you, because it seems to me he is extremely devoted to you. But he is lacking in the knowledge and experience to deliver what you want. It is not his fault, though it is his (and your) problem. I think it is very important that you understand this at a VERY deep level to help him grow out of it. Parentified children stop emotionally growing at a young age and CANNOT understand this without proper help, guidance and education. But as long as their intentions are there, they can start up their lost emotional development again.
Just be aware of this and do not tread on his ego. Damaged adults will retreat to acting like children when attacked. That is the only way they know. So there’s some more FOO for you.
I pointed out to him last night that the last date we went on that was his idea was Valentine's Day 2003. That's 3 years ago HP! Not acceptable. I would feel neglected too. How about instead of you planning the next date, he takes care of it. Sort of like the whole initiating sex deal. It's much better if he shows the initiative.
cobra, Yep, that is his family of origin. Except that his mother is a sexless lump of a person who thinks sex is dirty and tried her best to emasculate H and any other male in their household.
Ding ding ding goes Cobra's FOO alarm.
But here's the thing. My FOO was one where my mom focused exclusively on her kids, as well. And yet I, as an adult, can plainly see the downfalls of living such a life. And I don't want it for myself. And I'm NOT living that lifestyle for myself.
Why do some folks feel captive to their upbringing and others don't? What's the deal here?
Quote: If I am right about his thinking, then your jumping to conclusions (that his is not thinking of you first) has put him in a catch 22, don’t you think?
I'm not following the catch-22 at all. Can you elaborate?
Personally, I think he just wanted to get me done. To be able to cross it off his list. Although I am a priority in his life, he wants it to be an easy priority..one that does not cause lots of thinking, planning, effort...that's for work and God and children..the inescapable responsibilities of life. I am his safe harbor, his soft place to fall, the fun and vitality in his life. Our relatiionship, according to him, should have an ease to it that precludes any need for effort.
Was he consciously thinking about what to get me, how to make the day nice, how to show his love......NO. In his own words, no. He just wants me to be happy with whatever he does.
Whatever smallish effort he puts forth, he wants it to be enough because he's already tapped out with his other life-obligations.
Cobra, you may be nodding your head thinking, Yeah I can relate to that....but put yourself in my position for a moment and feel how it feels to be on the receiving end of it.
I think it's good for couples to have some passionate fights. Keeps things interesting at least 
