Quote: I know that noone has the answers to this but her; but I guess I could use some more of your insight into your sitch and how it compares to mine. ARe they similar or does mine seem more gone than yours was? I mean, I have been separated since July of 2004 and divorced since July 2006?
Hey Frank, I think the situation is fairly similar in that she doesn't have both feet out the door. She's at least still friendly to you and turns to you for comfort/support. In that sense it's pretty close to my situation. I actually think if she left on account of the affair it would be preferable. I think that some other scenarios, like there were perceived unfixable problems, would be more difficult to overcome because at least my perception is that the XS reasons with themselves that "these" are the real reasons behind the D.
Quick rundown of my sitch: Bomb was dropped in January 2005 after I came across an EA with an online person that she felt was her "soulmate". Things progressed rapidly to separation (1 month) when she wouldn't give up the EA. Divorced May 2005. We stayed friendly (except the last month or so)..dinners together, seeking me for support or conversation, etc. Sound familiar? We hugged, rarely kissed, but she accepted some physical stuff like back rubs. Like you, I always felt like there was something holding her back from trying again. Her favorite line was "been there, done that" if I ever brought up the subject of trying again. It turns out that the EA essentially continued the entire 2005 without her ever meeting this person or talking to them in person. Then at the end of this year she suddenly "woke up" to the fact that it was all just a fantasy and she realized what she had left behind. The problem in the marriage was primarily between her kids and I and she felt that our relationship had improved. She wanted our life back. She wanted me back. By that time she pretty much had the idea I had moved on. She knew I was dating. She knew that I had activities that I enjoyed doing that didn't involve her. Those things didn't really stand in the way.
So, the similarities are there. My comments have been to get you to let go some more. I think she has to not only resolve any feelings that linger about OM, but also at least know you are complete without her, be attracted to your qualities, and fear that she may lose you. It's time for her to take the initiative and do a little pursuing of her own. I think for you that it's too soon to move on, that it isn't hopeless, but that you need to at least make strides towards moving on. I don't think she'll come to you as a result of you pursuing her (if it was going to work it would have), but from her pursuing you. I wouldn't go dark, but I think a little gray would be nice.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
Just_Me, Thanks that helps keep the spirits up for now. I will say this. Your sitch is a bit different from mine in a few ways. One is that we have been apart longer. Another is that she claims the affair started just before our divorce was final and it did involve sexual relations. It wasn't just and emotional affair. However, I do think she legitimately regrets getting sucked in and as she stated to me the other day: "I know I am a good mother and person" Seems to me she is struggling with the guilt of the affair and until she deals with that, she will not be a person I can be with. As I said, my thought on the affair is that it may not have been physical or have started in her mind till months before the divorce; but I do believe that OM had been working her sympathies from day one of our separation. He pretty much admitted to her that he used to watch her from day one of them moving in!!! So, I think that in order to have an us, if ever, that she needs to get past any guilt, to realize that there is someone there who has busted his butt to become the man she married again and better. To realize that this OM played on her sympathies when she needed a sympathetic ear; but that his was not true and that mine is. I am sad that she keeps holding on to the "too late" theory. I never believe in that. Things can always be fixed. Both have to just give it a chance. I am there she needs to get there.
I believe that in some ways she has woken up; but in some ways she will not give herself the chance to believe that an "US" would be better this time. Is it her, is it her family, who knows. I do know that I am better these days than before; but I still pray for there to be an US someday. If not, I guess I will be better for the next person.
I do know that it really irritates her that for the past year, in her eyes, that I have had the freedom to just go out and have a wild time while she has the kids. (That was her choice not mine. Believe me, this isn't what I want nor is it fun to be apart from the kids or her) But her perception is that I am making out on this and she is missing out on the fun!!! Right...
BTW, I must share one thing that may or may not have been a good idea before I totally back off, which I have started.
I gave her tickets to the Billy Joel concert on Saturday that I just went to on Monday. My buddy said to do it and I listened!! lol
I gave it to her yesterday with a note: === I know how much you like Billy Joel. Almost as much as I do. The concert last night was awesome. PLease take these tickets and go with your sister, Barb or anyone else and enjoy youself. I will take the kids overnight and get them to CCD in the morning. You deserve a break from things and to go have some fun.
Enjoy, Frank ===
Maybe not a good idea; but I did it anyway before I back off. I haven't gotten any reaction to this yet and maybe I will; but I hope she will go just to enjoy herself.
Hey, I didn't take my buddies other idea. That was to place in the box of her stuff that I had, a copy of Mrs. Doubtfire. He figured she might watch it and realize that regardless of US, that I love my kids and the extra time I fought for in court was not to get back at her like she thinks; but to have more time with them because it matters to me!!!
Well, let's see...I worked out with my stepson and planned on dropping him off without going in; but when my X went to drop him off at the Y, she came in with my youngest and we got talking and it ended up that I was driving him to his dance. SO, needless to say I ended up having to go in the house while he changed!!! So much for the best layed plans!!!
Well, I also was logged on and saw my daughter on AOL IM, or so I thought....Very cordial was my X???? lol
Also, she has not said anything about the concert tickets I gave her??? So, I assume she is going to go and I wil lwatch the kids? Anyway, I would think that she wouldn't take them unless she was comfortable. Two things either it matters to her or she is using me. I would assume the former; because I know she would just as soon throw them at me if she wanted to do that!!! lol
IM Convo:
Me (6:28:38 PM): Do your homework!!!
Daughter's acct (6:28:56 PM): hey
Me (6:29:03 PM): hey what?
Daughter's acct (6:29:17 PM): go away I not Liz
Me (6:29:22 PM): A?
Daughter's acct (6:29:28 PM): nope
Me (6:29:31 PM): Mommy?
Daughter's acct (6:29:34 PM): ya
Me (6:29:41 PM): Hey Glen what's Up?
Daughter's acct (6:29:50 PM): nuthin
Me (6:29:51 PM): What are you doing online?
Me (6:29:59 PM): They let u useit?
Daughter's acct (6:30:03 PM): D.O R. enuf said
Me (6:30:09 PM): Is it okay?
Daughter's acct (6:30:16 PM): corse not
Me (6:30:20 PM): WHt is wrong?
Daughter's acct (6:30:28 PM): WTF Dont no
Me (6:30:36 PM): Is the money there?
Daughter's acct (6:30:49 PM): Im A poor white woman
Me (6:31:02 PM): Hey we should get together I am a poor white man?
Me (6:31:04 PM): lol
Daughter's acct (6:31:08 PM): lol
Me (6:31:21 PM): Is the account there?
Daughter's acct (6:31:40 PM): ya listed as outstanding
Me (6:31:46 PM): so no cash there?
Daughter's acct (6:31:53 PM): nope
Me (6:32:02 PM): Is it supposed to come by chek
Me (6:32:09 PM): or electronic?
Daughter's acct (6:32:16 PM): ya beleve when i c
Me (6:32:26 PM): Yes but is it a check or eft
Daughter's acct (6:32:43 PM): im gettin the boot by A I will let u no
Me (6:32:49 PM): Hey, if you need it to not get a late fee, then let me front it to u
Daughter's acct (6:33:01 PM): I let u no
Me (6:33:02 PM): Ok have a good nite Glen
Me (6:33:15 PM): Give them a big hug for me
Daughter's acct (6:33:20 PM): i booted mommy off
Me (6:33:22 PM): Se you tomorrow
Daughter's acct (6:33:24 PM): its A
Me (6:33:29 PM): ok, I love u bud
Daughter's acct (6:33:32 PM): ok
Me (6:33:46 PM): If mom needs the computer for a few more minutes, then let her get on!!!
Daughter's acct (6:33:59 PM): fat chance
Me (6:34:06 PM): is that andrew or momy?
Daughter's acct (6:34:11 PM): mommy
Me (6:34:14 PM): Ok
Daughter's acct (6:34:24 PM): its me A
Me (6:34:26 PM): Did u check what u needed out?
Daughter's acct (6:34:45 PM): ya im done here is boodie dude
Me (6:34:47 PM): See u tomorrow A and Glen!!!!
Daughter's acct (6:34:54 PM): ok see ya
Me (6:35:01 PM): that andrew or u?
Daughter's acct (6:35:04 PM): bye im playing diablo
Daughter's acct (6:35:06 PM): A
Me (6:35:08 PM): ok bud
Me (6:35:14 PM): have a good nite
Daughter's acct (6:35:16 PM): ok
Daughter's acct (6:35:27 PM): bye
Daughter's acct signed off at 6:35:33 PM
Man, life just doesn't get easier. Went out for about and hour and someone broke iinto my car smashed the window and stole my laptop. Dropped another $1600!!! (In between place and so I didn't have insurance to cover it!!! )
Well, let's see. I went to pick up my kids and on the ride to the apartment, my daughter tells me how they are going to sleep over on Saturday. I said "I know". I said what did mom tell you? She said she was going to see Billy Joel and was taking my stepson Thomas. I said oh good and you know how she got the tickets and why you are staying with me, right? I said that I got them for mom...My daughter then said that when she asked her mom, that she said it isn't your business?? What difference does it make that my daughter knows??? My X has yet to tell me that she is going or to say thanks??? I guess I would have expected at least an acknowledgement that she was going and that I iwas having them overnight???
I wonder why she took them? I figure she isn't the type to take them if she feels that there is a motive to it...I am glad she is going; but I would have probaby inquired as to why she got them? I would think some sort of acknowledgement would be normal.
Well, she seems to be substituting her son, my stepson for the male in her life...Hell, he is only 14 and she lets him watch movies with her that are probably not appropriate for him??? I feel like I am lost as to what is going on in her head. She has to know I care.
Well, I am doing other things and trying to distance myself; but she still lets her guard down sometimes and lets me help her with stuff??? I guess I get confused by that. Does it mean anything or not??? I guess we will see?
Tough day today. Got a call from my X and she told me that my stepson could go workout today; but if I could pick him and then drop him at his dad's after that. If I couldn't, she said to bring him to her house and drop him off at his dads. Then she says that she can normally get someone to pick him up to get to the gym and then get him to his dads; but that her parents are out of town in New York. I said are they visiting your aunt? She says, yes the ervices are this week. I said your uncle died? How com you didn't tell me? She said I thought you knew? I said no, she said oh I thought I did. I then asked her for their address to send a card.
Well, then we were talking a bit more and she asked if she was dropping the kids off at my parents or the new apartment. I told her the apartment. She said, well, I have to drop and run and may be there earlier than usual; because I have an interview for a waitress job. I said are you still interested in the jobs my friend was checking on? She said yes, that the waitress job would be on thursday nights when I get the kids and then every other weekend when I hve them. Yes, I know I can't have any say in it; but I guess I feel like that is going to be the end of the possibility for an US. I figure if we never interact and she is out there waitressing, that she will never think about her and I. I know that if she doesn't, then it would never work anyway; but it just mentally hurts alot. I feel like any hope I had will be dashed by her getting that type of job. I know that that is not true; but it is how I feel. Hard to believe in "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" or "If you love someone set them free..." It's the bit of not being around them that scares me; but I also know that not being around them might make them realize. However, in my case I am not so sure that it will
Man it is hard to GAL and move on whn you can't find a way to let go of your feelings. I don't think she haseither; but I believe that she can more easily shut down her emotions. For instance, and I know it was not good to say; but I said if you work on Thursday nights, we won't ever get a chance to have a drink!!! lol She says well, not to be mean but if I can work, then I would take that. Good for her; but it still hurts. I want to see her succeed; but I feel like when she does, that she will figure she doesn't need anyone like me in her life. Yes, I know that I am worth it and if she doesn't then she probably isn't worth it; but it is so hard to give up on her. I wish I knew what it is about her that keeps me wanting to be with her? She also made a comment about how she wen on an interview and the person said you look too young to have had 4 kids and she thought to herself "what does that have to do with the job?" Which she didn't get. I guess I need to let her do her thingand if she flies, the I guess it wasn't meant to be; but like I said hard to deal with. Yes, there will probably be someone else; but if not, I feel like I blew it in our marriage for my part and that hurts.
On top of it I, through no choice of my own get to be with my kids like it was supposed to be; but she does; because she is trying to work while they are not there. So, she gets to look like the parent that is always therefor them, when I would too if given the option!!!
Also, I still haven't had my X say anything in regards to the concert tickets. A thanks would be nice.
Man, I don't know if it is the rainy weather or what; but I am real down. I really feel like this is the end for her and I. Or at least my persception. Maybe it was over for her long ago. WHich is something I will never understand; because I believe in promises and love and the ability to rekindle it based on cooperation between the 2 people, which is lacking on her part.
I just feel like I am beating my head against a wall and for what??? I moved into the apartment and I will have thekids this weekend and enjoy it; but I am so lonely lately and really hoped that she and I would have started working on things. I just feel like it is never going to happen and that she just keeps moving on with her life and I can't find a way to let go. Everything I ever wanted, a marriage, wife, kids, a family has been taken. Even if I get another marriage or relationship, I will never be able to give my kids what I had and that was a family in a normal way. Also, I will always be on the outside looking in, even though I was not the one who walked away or messed around with a married person. I don't want her to have to pay for her mistakes, pers se; but it seems like I am paying for her mistakes!!!
I know it will get better and I have to help myself get there; but I am having such a tough time doing so. And I also don't want to let go of the belief that she and I can work it out; but it has been separation since July 2004 and divorced since July 2005...In reality, what chance is there for an "US" Probably none
Quote: In reality, what chance is there for an "US" Probably none
That could well be. Go under the assumption that there is no future with her. What are you going to do with your life if that's the case? This is the hand you were dealt. I don't think the answer is "find someone else" because you aren't in a good place. When you can say..."I can take or leave a relationship with my XW and I don't need her to be happy" then you are in the place you need to be in order to weather this storm. I also feel you have no chance with your XW until you're at that place because you will appear too needy to her. Just look how you perceverated on the tickets. You had so many expectations about how pleased she would be that her not acknowledging it is a huge letdown.
I know you had this vision of the perfect life and marriage, but it's gone. No matter what happens, things will never be the same. You will need to focus on making a better future.
In the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years. Abraham Lincoln
It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. Theodore Roosevelt
As I said, my thought on the affair is that it may not have been physical or have started in her mind till months before the divorce; but I do believe that OM had been working her sympathies from day one of our separation. He pretty much admitted to her that he used to watch her from day one of them moving in!!! So, I think that in order to have an us, if ever, that she needs to get past any guilt, to realize that there is someone there who has busted his butt to become the man she married again and better. To realize that this OM played on her sympathies when she needed a sympathetic ear; but that his was not true and that mine is. I am sad that she keeps holding on to the "too late" theory. I never believe in that. Things can always be fixed. Both have to just give it a chance. I am there she needs to get there. 
That was to place in the box of her stuff that I had, a copy of Mrs. Doubtfire. He figured she might watch it and realize that regardless of US, that I love my kids and the extra time I fought for in court was not to get back at her like she thinks; but to have more time with them because it matters to me!!!