OK, I posted about W's lunch with her dad today. Now, the Sh*t hits the fan.
W calls me at about 5 pm and wants to know when I'm coming home. Why? Because she has D15 and her boyfriend here and she needs to go grocery shopping and doesn't want to leave them home alone with just D10. I say 'ok' D10 will be there so they won't 'do anything'. She comes back with some bogus reason why that won't work and says she'll staty there till I get home at 6.
Something doesn't feel right. So I tell her 'no problem I'm leaving right now, I'll be home in 15 minutes'. So I leave and I'm driving home. About 5 minutes from the house D15 calls me and says 'are you coming home Dad?' and I tell her I'm a few blocks away. SHe says 'well you better hurry, Mom's losing it!'. OK. So I get home in about 3 more minutes and go upstairs to the master bedroom (my room) and D15 catches me at the door and says "You do NOT want to go in there, I thinks she has PMS or something because she has been trying to do things then suddenly crying all over.
So, I go into the bedroom, then the master bath where she is cleaning the sinks. I let her know I'm home and she looks like she is crying and needs to be left alone, so I do.
A couple minutes later I come back and tell her she doesn't have to clean the bathroom. She reminds me that she had offered to clean it to make up for the fact that she can't afford to pay the utilites for our house. So I say it's not necessary and she goes off the deep end!
She is crying and hard to understand as she says stuff like :
W: Well it's all I'm good at. It's the only way I can make up for living here since I DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY. I'm just living off you. If I didn't have you I'd probbably be homeless!
She sits down on the bathroom floor and puts her head in her arms and starts to cry hard. She says:
W: The only reason I have this business is because I can live off you while I start it up. And I've hurt you so bad, I don't know why you are doing this for me.
So I say "You would have moved out, worked hard for a couple years and saved enough money to start the business that you are starting now. All I did was make it so you don't have to wait 2 years, you can do it now instead. No big deal on my part because it's not like I'm putting any money or time into it - you are. It's all you, I have nothing to do with this.
I said: And, Did you INTEND to hurt me, or did it just work out that way? She says "I didn't mean to hurt anybody I'm just trying to make my life my own."
So, I sit on the floor across from her and I say: Lorri, I FORGIVE you. I let go of the past and forgive you.
She cries again. Then she goes on to tell me how afraid she is to go to her new 'office' because she doesn't know people there and she's made a big mistake because it's not going to work, and on and on...
And, she says, "I'm so needy right now and I don't want to be!" How am I ever going to be independent if I'm needy? I'll never be able to be in a relationship with anyone ever.
So, I say "You aren't NEEDY you are IN NEED OF SUPPORT" Big difference. "Needy' means you want someone to do it FOR you". "I'll support you because I have faith in your success" I'll be your friend and listen to your complaints. I'll always be there for you. Because I Love You. I always will.
The conversation goes in many directions, but for the most part she is feeling like a loser, has no self esteem, I think her Dad said something about moving out if she really wanted 'independence' and learn about the cold hard world. What an ass he is.
We talk more during dinner, just she and I. She is wondering if I can come tomorrow and help her hang up a heavy mirror. she asks me if that us being 'needy' and I said 'no, that's asking a friend for help'.
We decided to go grocery shopping together which is a sort of quality time event with her,. While were shopping, at one point she breaks into tears and says that she should have stayed just a mom since she can do this 'right'.
So, I point out her career as a series of steps. When I met her she was a preschool teacher mostly working with 2 year olds. Then we got married and she was a stay at home mom till about 6 years ago when she learned her massage techniques. Each a step that came with changes and each time she grew and was ok.
So she calms down, we go home, one of the topics at dinner is how she's lonely, I'm lonely, how can we reach out to each other a little and have some 'human contact'. So I suggest rubbing her feet with lotion at nite while we watch TV. She likes that, I like to do it. She mentions that she has a lot of bad memories wtching tv while I was drinking and that maybe we could make some new memories.
I said we can do this kind of stuff after the kids go to bed so they "Don't get the wrong ideas about us".
Later we sit to watch TV and I lotion up one foot and massage for about 20 minutes, then the other one. She is very happy. Then she sits up and says 'maybe you could rub my hair for me?". So she lies with her head on my lap, and I spend about 20 minutes stroking her hair and scalp. This is too much to believe.
Eventually the show we are watching ends, and it's 11pm so we decide to go to bed. I tell her 'I hope you sleep much better tonite'. She gets her head off my lap and I go into the kitchen while she goes into the bathroom. I decide that before she comes out of the bathroom I am going to go to my room, so I can be detached and slightly indifferent to what we have just done. She walks by the stairs and calls up to me and says 'good nite frank'.
And here I am writing this now. I am not exactly sure where her boundaries have just moved to. I do think I need to stay calm, detached but in the moment too.
Oh, and her femal friend who has been giving me massages apparenlty called to talk to her about something and had "Lot's to say about me". That was interesting, she would have told W how impressive my growth has been. Good timing. This is geting crazier
This is good news and a light in that dark tunnel in which you have been walking for some time. I am sure you are being cautious (very smart to get out of her way before 'bedtime') and will take care of your boundaries. And I take away both great encouragement and a lesson for myself from your handling of the Crash itself. It really sounds as though you said ALL the right things!!!!!!!!!! You let her have her dignity, you showed how she HAS made progress in developing her career in the midst of taking care of her family, and how very kind and true of you to point out that she is NOT beholding to you for the success or failure of her business, you've just made it easier - as a FRIEND - to give her a head start...the work will be her own. I think you're right that she pushes you away, loathing herself for loving you because it is all bound up with need at this time. If she can have the time and space to unravel this need (and you are giving time and space with willingness and generosity), she might be able to separate these two oh-so incompatiable emotions, stand on her own, and start, perhaps, to see her way back home. Keep on fighting the good fight...you're doing wonderfully, Frank!
Frank, I think your FIL couldn't be more wrong! I see a pattern here that I've seen with a lot of other DBers and if you can keep your cool, I think it is a matter of time till you have your wife back. She seems to be torn right now because she wants you badly but she doesn't WANT to want you. She feels like she shouldn't be wanting to fall in love with her husband all over again but yet that is exactly what she is doing. Be wary, Frank. She may start pushing some buttons in an attempt to prove to herself that you haven't really changed. Be expecting this and keep up that calm exterior. Prove her wrong and then she has no where to run.
I'm excited for you!
Email & MSN Messenger: Becca_1975@msn.com
Yesterday Is History
Tomorrow is a Mystery.
Today is a Gift.
That Is Why It Is Called "The Present"
Frank this awesome! You are one of the most seasoned DB on this board so I know you are aware of all the pitfalls we have experienced when we get to this position. The old "get my hopes up to high" I did that last nite my self! The classis pursue and chase. You get a little close and the WAS starts to run again. I know you have all the tools to tackle this and get the result you want! Godd job!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
You caught your wife in the middle of one. Frank it took me two years to admit to having those feelings about myself! That I felt so dependent, needy, that I couldn't do 'it' on my own.....your wife is on the brink...there will probably be more days when she breaks down but if you handle it just right you can come out of this and be so blessed.
There's a middle ground. It is so easy to miss. I used to think to be "free" and "on my own" I had to break up my family (namely get rid of H). I did not think there was any other way. But I now know, after learning the hard way, that I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO DO IT ON MY OWN. The VP of a company out here called "Cybernetics" took me under her wing and gave me VISION. She literally took me off of the ground floor of her company and gave me a position working for her. There, she taught me so much about the way things work in the world...and NO ONE does it on their own. Every time I doubted myself that lady told me "you can do this". Pretty soon, I came to believe her because I just had so much respect for her and what she'd made a big success of that had started in an apartment with her two partners! She groomed me for a year and a half and then do you know what she did? She fired me. She said if I stayed any longer I'd be smothered. I was devastated! She wrote me a glowing letter of reference (they say she'd NEVER done that before). I soon found myself working for an attorney and rubbing elbows with State Delegates and the like. Last Thanksgiving I went to her and thanked her for firing me because if she hadn't kicked me out of the nest, I'd have never learned to fly. Now, you don't have to kick your wife out of the nest, you can lift her up and let her look over the edge though. Help her meet people, talk to people. Carving out an identity for myself filled a huge void in my life. Give her wings. Your wife can have that, too. All she needs to come to understand is that all "help" is not evidence that she 'can't do it alone', but a declaration of faith that she CAN do it. Lift her up. She needs to broaden her perspective. She needs to talk to people who have had help. MOST have had to have help. There are no "self-made men or women" in this world. Somewhere, each of us, at some point caught a break, had a helping hand extended to us, etc... She just needs to SEE that. She's thinking too narrowly. It's not all about the 'all-mighty" dollar, but to her right now, it may seem that way. I used to think that way too. If I just had the money, I could leave and do this "on my own". Truth is, without PEOPLE who believe in us, especially when we don't believe in ourselves, we can't do it, money or no money.
And here is the BUT. It is very likely that she will now retreat ... she will do this because it is a human reaction - it will not be about you, but about her, questioning what happened last night and what she thinks about it and what it tells her about herself.
How long and how far her retreat is will be somewhat in your control. If you let her retreat and stay where you are, lovingly detated and a true friend with no expectations, you can expect her approach again, but chase her, show her you are pursing and she'll go much much future away.
Please Frank, play it really cool now, it's quite a critical time.
Take care, I'm thinking of you, V
V
Never make someone a priority, who makes you an option.
Another bit of insight from the woman's point of view -although I'm sure men go thru similar things, this is definately the processing method including all the fears of a woman just taking flight. Her wings are tender yet - in fact she may not even quite know she has them - but you are SO doing all the right things. May you be blessed by your love and what you are doing so lovingly.
Thanks for the supportive posts. I really needed them.
I saw Counselor today and told her all the events and some other stuff that has since happened.
AmyC, your story about mentoring is so close to something that happened to me. I'll have to tell the story but the short version is I went from 'just a programmer' to 'president of an internet service company with 4,000' customers in 2 years because of this persons FAITH in me.
And you're so right on with your description of where she is at, and what she needs to learn. Counselor said almost the same thing, that she needs to realize that 'freedom' DOES come from being in a healthy relationship, a family, a group. And that WE are developing one slowly. She has hit a bottom in her faith and self worth, and the person who lifted her back up was ME. As she said 'how can you do this after all I've done to hurt you?'.
Because this is true love. Not 'in love'. I hope she sees that soon.
C said she was thinking of me the past few days because I have been so worn down by all the support I have to give, and none of MY needs are getting met. She said she could see my glass was almost 'empty' and she could feel that something was going to happen soon. And it did. She was totally unsurprised by the crash but had been predicting it for weeks, and said my supportive responses without trying to FIX things were excellent.
She said that W has got to be totally confused because everything she thought was true about me wasn't, everything she thinks about 'freedom' isn't, and in her current life of building a new 'independent' business I'm her biggest fan.
Anyway, today something else happened with W that has changed the dynamics yet again. Not a bad thing, but I can't take the time right now to give a meaningful explanation, and you know how I like to be precise in my writings.
Counselor will see her thursday which is just in time during these crises. She'll be ok after this meeting. I'm leaving for the 3 day mens retreat on friday and I think everything will be clear to me when I get back.
I just want to say, that I've learned a lot about myself, about my strengths and weaknesses. But the most important thing I've learned it to reach out to others, instead of believing I can do everything MYSELF with nobody's help. It actually makes me stronger knowing that. And, I have a mission in life that I am seeing slowly defined by this experience.
It's people like all of you, who come together and reach out to each other during our times of crisis that have opened my awareness to a part of myself that has been dormant for a long long time. Thank you all for letting me have some of YOUR strength when I was out of mine.
I'm emotionally drained right now, I need to take a few days for me. W is 'lifted up' again and C will finish the job in a couple days, then I can go do what I have to do. And then it will be over, that long 5 years of living in the dark.
Frank you really have been the guiding light for many of us. (Not the soap on TV!) Your words have enlightened many of us especially me. I have been experiencing many of the same feelings you have. My W is in a very intense program becoming a Paramedic. It is actually a 4yr degree up here in Canada. I have been making sacrifices personally and financially to ensure she completes this program. People that I know who have an idea of what is happening in our R can't believe that I still will give so much to my W to complete this program! I know it is because I truly love my W unconditionally, and that will never change. It is amazing over the last few days I have a seen a change in my W attitude toward me because despite all the crap she is doing with the OM I still have stood by her to support her in her goals of doing well in her program. She even said the other day she can't believe that I am still supporting her! It makes me feel good, but it stil makes me wonder if she truly appreciates it. Regardless of what happens I will do what I can to help her complete her program because it is something I WANT TO DO FOR HER! Frank you have come so far and deserve some time to yourself to recharge your batteries! Good luck and we are here for you!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
I'm sure I am not alone in saying that we all have been as lifted up and as strengthed by YOU as you have been by US. I am also as sure that I will not be alone in my promise to keep you at your retreat and your W and her counseling in mind and heart this weekend...I'll "light a few candles" for both of you...
