i think you know how I feel about your situtasion. But maybe there is a point. Your not like me. If you left and met a great girl and your wife kept on with OM and a year went by you might go back. i dont know but I think so. Thats your choice and for you it could be great. But look at all the great things you would have enjoyed for that year. And maybe at that you could see more clear as well as your wife. I think in situations like yours a given amount of time and then you move forward and let what will be will be handle the rest. But its that hope and all that stuff I TRULY believe kills the human spirit and crushes the heart. \
once the mind moves on th eheart can follow. I hope you see my point. I think I have said this before.
Quote: I think you know how I feel about your situtasion. But maybe there is a point. Your not like me.
Actually Marty you and I are a lot more alike than you think. I don't know what kind of businesses you have been in, perhaps you could enlighten us, but I have always been in technology. And both you and I are geared up to do one thing VERY well: We Solve Hard Problems. They may be financial, or technological or whatever but that's what we do.
Then we create an environment, a company, where smart people can find their full potential and we all make more money as a team. And that's how we make the big bucks.
Am I right so far? Close? I think so.
And if we have any kind of soul we know in our hearts that there are a number of famlies who depend on paychecks that come from us. Letting them go is very hard if you have a conscience. I had to let over 200 people go from a company that failed to evolve competitvely, had $12 million in the bank and couldn't make their business work any more. It was a hard thing to do. I didn't keep a lot of 'friends' after that but it had to be done or EVERYBODY would lose their jobs.
I bet some of these descriptions might be similar to your life.
We both have been wronged in our youth. By people we trusted. Trust is hard to find in this world, there are so many people who want to control or hurt others. This hurt and betrayal followed us into our adult lives and businesses. We live our lives as if we are still that young person who is being betrayed and act accordingly.
It follows us into our relationships, into the bedroom. We rarely, if ever, feel that deep love that comes from feeling every fiber of our being feel like it has been filled with love and we sleep for once in our ilfe with true contentment. The rest of the time we 'get off' and sleep.
Which do you feel? I USED TO feel the first, deeper one. Then I left the world and only felt the 'get off and go to sleep' feeling.
The difference between you and I is that I have gotten past the wrongs and betrayals of my childhood and learned that the world, and the people in it are not simple. And, our society has created people like you, and me, and your wife and AmyC and all the others we know. Each has their strengths and their weaknesses. But all are fellow humans. And what I have learned about fellow humans is how to forgive.
Quote: If you left and met a great girl and your wife kept on with OM and a year went by you might go back. i dont know but I think so. Thats your choice and for you it could be great. But look at all the great things you would have enjoyed for that year. And maybe at that you could see more clear as well as your wife. I think in situations like yours a given amount of time and then you move forward and let what will be will be handle the rest.
Fair enough. I don't know if I would go back to my wife if I met this new woman you describe. If she was so great then I would be happy. I think that W would be likely to come back to me because she would see a happy person who is desirable.
Quote: But its that hope and all that stuff I TRULY believe kills the human spirit and crushes the heart.
When it does that, then it's because it's an OBSESSION or a FEAR, not a 'hope'.
Quote: once the mind moves on th eheart can follow. I hope you see my point. I think I have said this before.
Of course. the mind and the heart are tied together.
Quote: So its not a joke. There arte not second chances like that. It ends and that ends for life. Now we will have a great freindship for the kids and be good parents. But us ever sharing a bed or anything else for that matter. done
Ok, no second chances. Then your wife should be filing quickly and getting this over. Because you said there are no second chances. And since that is TRUE then she should NOT give YOU any second chances. Just file and get it over with.
So, why are you here. Just wait for her to file and then you will be 'done'. You should be able to buy someone new real quick. Someone superficial. Someone who doesn't know you, your likes , your dislikes, all the things you learn abot someone after you spend years together.
You can break another one in. Won't take long. Kids will be FINE.
Why are you here Marty? When you answer that question AFTER thinking about it and looking inside then maybe our advice will mean something. Until then, it seems like you're trying to think of reasons to go. So go already!
This is what I mean. Two adults sit down. Look each other in the eyes. Talk about what they have done to each other. Talk about life without each other. And one says " I have hurt you. I am sorry. What can I do? I am in this, I am confused, I have been hurt. I am sorry and there is no out. I took vows and no matter what I am in this till the very end and not a minute sooner"
These are the words of the truly committed IMO.
Now take my wife. You know what she has said. I think I have given her enough sit downs, eye to eye conversations, remember the vows, remember what family is and the sacrifices you make for family and marriage. Now I ask you, if my wife files for divorce now do you honestly think she should EVER get another chance with me?
Why?
Are the vows you take only valid for 10 years or 15 years? Or before the failure of a buisness or another problem. No they are for a lifetime.
I am hanging in there like you and on a scale of 1 -10. I am a 4 or 5 while you are 7 or 8. (the scale from no big deal to very serious) It is not a perfect scale but I know you get it.
Frank, I was confused by the hope/obsession comment. I am not sure about you cause I never could be. But when I got married I never thought I would be waiting to find out if my wife was going to ask me to come home or continue the marriage. And without a doubt my wife NEVER thought she would have to deal with what I handed her. So I think marriage can be a very selfish thing in some ways.
So with that being said, Don't you think both parties should fight until both parties can sit eye to eye and say we gave it our all and not a minute sooner.
Other than the above statement, I sit here and hope she reads some thing, a friend says something, or anything to trigger a thought process that makes her see the light and want to become that person who is willing to do the hard work.
Then and only then would I NOT have to say "Once my wife leaves she will never get a shot again" Because at that point both parties would not be looking at the grass. They would be crying and saying sorry and hugging. Both souls would know they did all they could.
I find the grass is greener statement insulting. Don’t You?
I feel that once you have made it to that point and both parties are as committed as each other you will have success. Both sides will read, go to CT and/or single T. You see, in my minds eye a winner never quits! But when one does in a marriage doesn’t the other at a specific point in time have to as well? My wife has not filed yet, so I am in. Most on this board think my wife is a little crazy J very confused but if I study, learn, grow up, change and play it right I’ll probably go home.
Second chances? I am not sure I understand. You deserve a million chances in a marriage. What a spouse does not deserve is to be dangled, left out on a limb. A spouse does not deserve to be told some of the things that are said to all of us on this board. But we get it anyway. And I can deal with it, god knows I have said things very hurtful. But if she files than that is not a second chance I need to give. That is her breaking the vows of marriage which if she comes back turns into green grass just over the fence.
This was a good oneJ
So, why are you here. Just wait for her to file and then you will be 'done'.
You know I don’t want my wife to file but I get your point. So I’ll explain. I am here to better my self and listen to others who want the same thing that I do. To here there stories so I can feel better about mine, see hope and get strength. But yes Frank, one thing that is true about your statement is, if she does file than I would be done.
When I took vows with my wife I did not ask her if a divorce or separation would be needed around 35 or 45. Maybe I should have. Maybe I should have asked if during our life together she would get really confused and need time apart or a maybe worse yet a divorce. But you know I could never ask these questions, you just assume it’s for life. I did, didn’t you? So what do we need now? We need the commitment we thought we had the day we were getting married for strength during these trying times. I can’t speak for you but I don’t think I am getting that right now. So with that in mind if my wife decides to leave, then nope, there will not be any more chances for her. Why? Because the grass on the other side of the fence has never been trampled on and you cant see the weeds. Who needs that type of commitment in there life?
I hope this clarifies a little better for you and all.
And Frank if you think I am full of it. Share it I welcome it. How else can I learn and get better.
And the life we both share. Yes some things are very similar.
You seem to be doing a bit better, and I am glad of that. What you are going through just breaks my heart. I honestly have tears in my eyes whenever I read your posts, which doesn't happen to me with most other threads. We all have sad stories, but yours really affects me. Maybe because I can see my husband in you in some ways; I'm not sure.
You are such a good man and you are a sensitive soul. I'm not going to give you any advice b/c you know what you need to do; I don't. I just want you to know that I am thinking of you and praying for you.
And do have hope, Frank, hope for yourself if nothing else. I agree that hope doesn't have to bring pain; we need it to survive in this world of ours.
Nicola
Life isn't about finding yourself; it's about creating yourself My thread: Trusting God's Plan
I also decided to MENTALLY 'divorce' my wife. She made it clear to me that she deserved to be 'happy' and that 'happy' was not with me. And she WILL 'have her OM' no matter what.
How can I stay 'mentally' married to someone who is emotionally immature and dishonest - with herself! And she does these things that hurt me, the 'flirty' things so we can 'be friends' I guess. Regardless, I want a divorce from her. I don't care if it's 'legal' just 'emotional'. It's better for my PMA. Isn't that what DB'ing is about, taking care of YOU?
Maybe in this context 'divorce' and 'detachment' mean the same thing. I don't care to move out or get a lawyer, just not to care for her or for her actions. Not be angry or mean, just not feel hurt or angry at what she does. And to start erasing her from that special place in my heart. I'll always love her, but she can't stay in that special place.
She has an OM who is basically a loser and uses her. She thinks so little of our marriage, and SHE was an energy drain on ME when I was hurting, and not any kind of help to me at all. I have forgiven myself and her for each of our roles in this. And I'm focusing on GAL and healing myself for ALL the past hurts, and the new ones she is inflicting on me.
I will 'act as if' she and I are divorcing and it's what I WANT and she can have it. It's what I said to her the other day when we had our argument, and I need to follow through with action. I want to divorce her emotionally. My actions will be to GAL, and live with her, acting as a man who is divorcing her, as she has requested. SHE still has to file since SHE is the one who wants this but I'M going to begin the mental process of divorcing myself from her.
And it DOES feel like a weight is lifted off my shoulders. I'm not trying to please her in any way, just to be a good and decent man to her as I would to anyone else I care for. And to find the rest of 'myself' and get on with living my life as it is supposed to be lived.
Maybe she will play her 'pull me closer' games but I won't respond. She can't have both OM and me. I deserve, no DEMAND much more respect than that. If you say you are divorcing me AND have OM then I am not going to be a source of support. She forfeited that.
I made financial and housing commitments to her and I will keep them. I promised to 'be there' if she really needed me and I will. She is the mother of my children and has earned that from me. But she can't play emotional games with me any more. Or expect me to be more than a room-mate / friend. Not till she makes an effort to earn that right.
I still love her, too much. If she wakes up and decides that maybe we are worth fighting for then it will be different. I'm not holding out any hope that will happen soon.
All I can control is myself. Holding on to hope just hurts. Letting her go completely, 100% will be better for me and help me to GAL. Who knows, maybe for her it will make a difference in her attitude. She's emotionally gone from ME anyway so what do I have to lose? Nothing really.
You are not wrong but welcome to my world. If my wife told me something then I would know. If my wife ever said anything about her feelings then I could react.
And Frank, there is nothing I have not told my wife about my past. She knows it all. I just think I am amrried to soemone who has nothing inside or very little and needs a lotof work. But welcome to my world.
If someone gives you something then you can act on them. Otherwise you are always looking at yourself to mold with them and change for them.
I just want to make sure that I say that my wife was, and still is, a kind and gentle soul who I loved dearly. When I looked in her brown eyes I could see all the way into her heart. It was the one thing that overwhelmed me, that soul to soul connection we had. She told my counselor a few weeks ago she had the same feelings about me when she looked into my eyes.
She was a preschool teacher when I first met her, she loved 2 year olds because of their spirits. She has gone on to becoming a Massage Therapist, learning all the various massage techniques, sports massage, and many spiritual types of massage. She does these things so she can be of service and help people to heal their hurts. And anyone who receives from her always walks away better than they came in.
She has always been easy to love, there was never anything about her not to love. She has no enemies, anyone who knows her sees her gentle and kind nature. She was born to be a mother and is the best I have ever seen.
Even now she is still that person.
I always thought we were together because our souls were so similar. Kind, gentle, caring people. It wasn't "true love, meant to be" but two souls walking the same path in life, looking for the same things.
Even though I'm hurt and angry, I still have to say she isn't a bad person. She's just hurt for so long because we lost our way together and she doesn't see that we will ever be happy again, and she wants to be happy now. And I'm seeing a selfish side of her that I haven't ever seen before. But she is still the same woman inside.
And I know, as she said, she has loved me for so long she "doesn't know how to NOT love me" but it isn't enough any more.
Anyway, I just felt like I needed to say that. It seems that sometimes when we post we don't take the time to define who our spouse really is to us.
You are such a good man and you are a sensitive soul. I'm not going to give you any advice b/c you know what you need to do; I don't. I just want you to know that I am thinking of you and praying for you.
Thank you Nicola. I know, I am a sensitive soul. And I live in an insensitive world. Maybe I'm here to change that about our world, or at least the parts that I can touch? I think I am.
I wouldn't have been given the great gifts of compassion, love and intellect I have for no reason. I don't think I was quite ready 8 years ago when I used them all to create a company from nothing, that was a place for so many people to have the opportunity to grow up and become 'more than they were' than when they met me.
The tragedy of how it ended and the people who took so much from me caused me to run away from my life, and not to use my gifts any more. I know that those things about me are what my wife saw in me, and what attracted her to me. She was one of those people who needed me to pull them along on their journey. When I stopped, she hurt and waited and finally gave up.
With my counselor, who is a 'psycho-spiritual' counselor besides all the MFCC and other 'normal' certificates, I am re-integrating all those parts of me again. It's hard, and as AmyC and others on this board have commented, I've gone from totally defeated in life 3 months ago to where I am now. I couldn't have done that if I wasn't already the person I am. I just got lost.
The prayers I get from you and others are also part of that healing. I sometimes think I don't deserve them but then I realize that I won't be able to be in the world again, and touch more lives, without the prayers. I so want my wife and I to stand together again and it may very well be that the prayers of others will help to accomplish that.
I feel very unworthy to ask for it, but maybe that's part of my lesson - to allow others to prop ME up instead of always being the one to prop OTHERS up all the time. With me energy flow has almost always been one way: I give, others take. Till I can't give any more.
In my life I've given so much to so many, and asked for nothing in return. I never thought I needed anything from anybody. I never thought to ask for anything. I've always been the strong one.
So I'll humbly ask. Whomever feels moved to, please say a prayer or think of me and my wife when you have a free moment. Pray for whatever you think is right. You're all in my heart and I feel for each and every one who is hurting and I do my best to be there in spirit and in words.
I just want to be able to help people again. I really miss that part of myself.
Right now I could sure use a miracle. No matter what though, I will be ok.
While I am detaching / divorcing I felt compelled to send this e-mail to my wife. I guess so that she sees I'm not angry with her when she notices my detachment. I hope it doesn't come across as anything but supportive words from a dear friend. ---------
I was thinking about you, and how much you have done to expand your career and further your growth.
I see strength and determination in you to succeed in your new business adventure. And to do it yourself. I have infinite faith in you and I know you WILL succeed because this is the time for you to do it. This is your time.
You've always been a wonderful mother and friend, and the girls and I have been blessed with your presence in our lives. It's your love that makes you so very special to everyone you touch, either touching their hearts, or healing their bodies.
I truly believe with all my heart that the world is a much gentler place because you are in it. You have such a gift for taking the wounds and sadness that so many are holding in their bodies, and gently pushing them free, helping them to find peace in their lives. When I look into your eyes I always see that gentle woman who loves, who heals, who brings peace into each persons world.
I have learned that it's important to hear heartfelt words from others, telling us how they see us, and how they feel the world sees us. I think it helps our perspective to be more balanced and counteracts a lot of self-doubt.
So, these are my words. You are a true Goddess, a healer, a source of infinite love and compassion. Everyone you touch is forever changed in small or great ways by the experience.
I know I have been.
This message is not meant to be replied to. It's just for you because I was thinking of you. Take care.
