At a turning point

[Kaly]

Dear PArobb,

Ask and ye SHALL receive...just look at the gift to you from grasshopper, PArob!!

Love,
Kaly

[PArob]

Thanks to both Kaly and GH. I really appreciate your insights in this.

The DB stuff does not have a clause in it that says something like "Detach, work on you, do 180's etc, UNLESS the bi@#@ does something that upsets you and then f@#$ it, all bets are off and it's go time!"

LMAO, thanks GH, thats the first real laugh I've had today. I thought I read that on p. 135......maybe I have a different version

Ok, so you are back to square one. I get that it's frustrating, but I still see a guy totally ruled by his W's actions and words. Like I said to Frank, our weakness here is that we crumble at the slightest positive sign. You did that

Yep, yep, yep and, just for good measure, yep. You're absolutely correct. I see a positive sign and its like I'm right back into it. I have to stay true to my principles.

So, in my opinion, your options are, in order of my (read MY) preference:
1) Start DBing again HARD. Pull back. Access the situation and go back to self-focus. Stop focusing on her and for God's sake stop focusing on the OM.

I really believe this is the path I must follow. Any talk at this point is really moot. She's not going to give me answers and all I'll do is get myself worked up.

So sorry you are going thru the crap. I hope this isn't unhelpful, but I'm not sure it's hopeless when your wife has actually SAID she valued and wanted the marriage. She just sounds very confused right now.

Thank you Kaly, I appreciate you empathy. No doubt about it. She is very confused. Just now, before she hopped in the shower to get ready for work, I talked briefly with her. I said that after today, I feel really like I'm being used (sorry GH, that's not DB) until its convenient for her to leave. She said (of course I'm sure it was with forked tongue), "I'm not leaving you". Again, she looked me straight in the eye and said "I love you." My last question to her, "do you believe that what you are doing is wrong?" She says, "I know that it is." Confusion? Yeah, I'd say. So maybe it isn't hopeless, maybe I need to ride this rough patch, get back on my path and not let her actions rule me. What else do I have to lose?

The point is, I've been further down than I am today and I managed to pull back through. This is no exception...except that I'm a little bit wiser. I trusted her words of committment, her desire to "want to set things straight" ...asking me forgiveness. I trusted all of that, but the point was, they were just words. Her actions speak otherwise. Do I blame her? Not really, I think she had good intentions. I really do. But as GH pointed out in one of his earlier posts, she came back before she was truly ready. Hopefully, she will be truly reaady someday. The point is, the more I react to her emotions and play to her guilt, the less likely that day will come soon.

Thanks again you guys, I will check back in tonight to see how everything is going.

Kaly, hopefully I'll be able to offer some advice to you real soon.

[Kaly]

Dear PArob,

Anything to help one another get thru the day.....

What you said about your wife SAYING that she KNEW what she was doing is wrong is the strongest most direct example I've seen yet about an A being like a drug!!! If only we could think of it like crack it would be easier. It really is that impersonal in that it's not about love but about filling some void, some need (and that ain't love!). So her drug is the EA..she's not feeling able to control it, knowing it's wrong...yet...being unable to kick the habit just yet. BUT she loves you! And said it! This is great! She may tuck her head back into the tunnel - and unfortunately leaving you hurting for a time - but there is hope! Remember, DB-ing protects YOU, too. You need that kind of detachment that comes from DBing (don't we all) to help shield yourself while being able to love your W at the same time.

Thanks for thinking of my sitch, too. I just feel like I can't compete with his fantasy world and need to be out of his way or he will continue to steam roll over me in his fight for freedom. It's hard to see others on this site that actually have S's who are 'peaking' out of MLC. My H and I have only just begun...

Ok...I've got to get back to work (piles of it!)...I'll be checking in later, too!

Love,
Kaly

[PArob]

Kaly,

I really feel for you and your sitch. What you are experiencing is really hard to deal with, but there is hope. I guess I'm a prime example really. I mean, if you would have known me then, it really was pathetic. You figure, it nearly cost me my family, it cost me my job and a lot of respect. Strangely, at the time, all I knew is that this woman completed me! Now I look back at it and say, ewww!

The thing is, none of us can compete with their fantasy world. We are part of a reality that they are trying to escape....but at some point, they must face that reality...there is no other way around it. And the point is, at some time, there comes the realization that the grass is not any greener....the person they so fell in "love" with turns out to be an ordinary person.

You're absolutely correct about it being analogous to a crack addiction, because it is. I kinda feel bad saying this but tonight when she called on her way to work, she actually said, "I know it doesn't mean much, but I am sorry." Mr. Sensitivity that I am, I said, "Don't say it because you know it will happen again." Was it the wrong thing to say, yeah, probably. I didn't say it mean, I just stated it matter of factly. But the addiction is there, she knows its wrong, but yet can't keep away. Maybe they should have re-habs for WAS?

I wish I only knew what emotional void he is filling for her. I mean, I obviously wasn't the greatest H in the world, in fact I was pretty bad at validating her feelings for the most part. So maybe that's the void...I don't know.

Yes, I have recognized that DBing is essential for the LBS as well as being the best shot you have to save your M. My problem, as succintly stated by GH, is that I follow the principles until she does something wrong then its game on!

Until next Kaly, take care. I'll be checking in with everyone later tonight.

[grasshopper]

I wish I only knew what emotional void he is filling for her. I mean, I obviously wasn't the greatest H in the world, in fact I was pretty bad at validating her feelings for the most part. So maybe that's the void...I don't know.

Have you asked her?
I know I wish I knew as well about my W's OM and what he was doing for her. I guess in my case I am afraid to know.
You are at a point where these kinds of convos may be appropriate. You might be surprised, she may actually answer the question but first of all, you need to stop being cold to her, i.e. no more comments.

Gh

[PArob]

I don't know, I did kind of ask her about, but considering where her head is it, she has no answers. Didn't really expect any anyhow.

She was all full of apologies and love last night, came home this morning cold as an ice cube. Oh well, just another day in the life of DBing.

[FireDragon]

Hi Rob,

wow, what an insight; I mean your previous experience being a WAS. Speaking about karma..

Well, the way I see it, if I may, you have nothing to be ashamed of, really. We all make mistakes, we are human, and it's expected that during the life course we face temptations such as in form of EA, OW, and so on.
It's predictable; what is not and can only be determined by the person's actions, is how we deal with such obstacles.
You faced yours, you gave in, but even then you retained some principles and in the end you made a major comeback all by yourself.
Unfortunately the way karma sees it, and I'm serious about it, you might need to reap what you saw, or to put it differently, to pay for whatever you bought.
Right now it seems like your past deeds transformed into a lesson for you;
but I'm pretty sure since you were able to do the right thing, and it's not the moral higher ground speaking - the right thing in terms of being true to yourself, your commitnents and your inner integrity, - your lesson will bring you reward rather than punishment.

Just don't forget The Books:
don't scrutinize your W, don't call her on everyhting you notice even if it has to do with the OM, pretend you don't notice or don't pay attention or don't give a damn.
Grasshopper, it goes to you, too. Lawyer's card? You dropped something, honey. Let her notice that you don't give a damn and are not worried.
Let them feel that they are free to do whatever they feel like doing, maybe then the forbidden fruit will lose much of its taste, that stems from forbideness.

Truly yours,
FireDragon

[Kaly]

Dear Rob,

I had a good laugh over your "EEWWW" reaction looking back! Definitely great medicine, laughter! Thanks!

I wonder about Firedragon's karma thoughts regarding life lessons. I bet you're being asked to TOTALLY put yourself in your W's shoes because...you've BEEN there! You KNOW what it's like and therefore you've kind of answered your own question about what she feels for OM and why. The A means NOTHING and you have the opportunity to bring the two of you back together by your responses! If you could allow yourself to get out of the "Game On" mode, you might find a way to get progress instead of payback. What's that old chestnut (I think another bloody Dr. Phil-ism) but would you rather be RIGHT (getting back at her) or HAPPY (finding another way to respond so that she has room to respond differently, too)? Believe me, as a woman I would totally shut down if my H was doing a "Game On" to me! It would be better if you found a way to soften up (this is a show of strength, not weakness!) and respond without showing anger.

Having said that, we've all have our Achille' heels, I gottcha...mine is guilt, maybe yours is anger. Lord knows, we have plenty of opportunity in these horrible circumstances to face our demons/guilt/anger issues and get beyond them. Part of OUR LBS Karma perhaps.

Thanks for you support with regard to my sitch Sigh. My husband is really, truly an alien. But he did call today to give me his hotel #. I'm grateful he was considerate in doing so. Tomorrow is our 11th wedding annivesary. Sigh. I told him I would be thinkging of him tomorrow not even saying WHY (he knew) and he said he would be thinking of me, too. Then I got off the phone quickly.

I have been totally quiet on this end when he's been out of town and was staying away from him as much as possible before he left - even, as I said earlier, going to a hotel when I honestly couldn't take it anymore. I have no idea what's going on in his head. He left me a HUGE 5 minute message on my cell phone two days ago. A launry list of things he's been doing (proving he's having a great time away?) but also like his usual way of sharing. I guess all I can do is make no effort to call him. What do you all think about this tactic, recalling, if you will, that I have not sent him any Plan B-type letter....yet!

Thanks!
Love,
Kaly

[grasshopper]

Congrats Rob! You da champions!!!!

GH

[PArob]

WOOOO HOOOOO! What a game!

Everything on this end is, well, pretty much stable I guess. No major updates happening, things are coasting along at a leisurely pace. W took last night off so we could watch the Super Bowl, so I was happy to have the little extra time, although she fell asleep at half time...but she did wake up at the end and we watched a few shows together. Friday morning, I began my usual backsliding R talk (last week was a major step backward for me....I need to pick up and move on), but I think I did okay Friday evening. All day Saturday I was pretty good, we had D8's birthday party at the roller skating rink and I was pretty good at mingling and otherwise. W feel asleep around 6 (she had worked the night before) and woke up around 9. We shared a couple of drinks, small talk, etc, then retired to the living room to watch tv before we feel asleep. Yesterday was a good day all around really....

Today is here, and I'm a little sad. Again, its obvious that my W does love me and care for me, but its amazing how you miss the "little things" that they used to say and do. I'm not sure if I'm hypersensitive to it because of everything, or if it is a genuine change in "attitude" towards me.

All in all, just trying to get back on track, hopefully things will look up soon.