Okay, first off, let me just preface this post with this: I am still positive and still in a good frame of mind (I think), but I need to get something off my chest...so here goes...
I come home tonight, W is getting ready for work. She chit chats a bit with me, all is cool. Then she says:
W: Sorry you had to read that note M: That's okay, I understand...I shouldn't have put myself in the position to read it in the first place. W: Its still not right.... M: No I understand, there are his words, not yours W: You're not upset by it? Another man professing his love for your wife? M: Absolutely, I'm not happy about it, but what can I do? W: right M: How did it make you feel? W: Oh, I don't know, I really haven't thought about it M: You really haven't thought about it? Don't you think you should? W: I just haven't had the time.
And so on and so on, I start to backslide a tiny bit, but catch myself and alls well that ends well.
Now here's the rant. Number one, if you really didn't want me to read it, why keep it in the first place? Secondly, WTF? How do you THINK I feel about it? Ecstatic? And here's the million dollar question, what happened to the note? It magically disappeared right after I found it...this question would only lead to another lie I'm sure (that's why I haven't asked it) because I guarantee she would tell me she ptiched it in the garbage..well I got news for you, it wasn't in the garbage. And another WTF moment....what do you mean you haven't thought about...to busy? Okay, lets place everything on hold until you get time to actually think about it.
Another one of her excellent suggestions: "You dwell on this too much, way more than I do" Uhm, maybe because there's some loser out there writing you sappy love notes? Explain to me, dear W, how did you feel when the shoe was on the opposite foot, how much understanding did I get? Where was my space?
Okay, I'm sorry guys...I had to rant. I feel a million times better now. Stay focused, stay positive!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Rob you handled yourself well! bravo! Sounds like things for now are going well in your sitch! Good to see! It is amazing that are W would expect us to react so calmly to a love note or in my sitch the OM coming to pick her up! When the shoes is on the other foot JUST WATCH OUT!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Tim, I'm tellin you, I swear they sense a positive mood and swoop in to quash it the best they can. But, overall, the whole thing did end up upbeat. Thanks for checking in!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Okay, well my stated goal yesterday has already failed. I've been on the down hill slide for most of the morning and I really don't like it. Everytime I start to feel a little better, it seems that I'm kicked in the face with reality. Today, it was nothing more than a carry over from the conversation I had with W last night regarding the note....I, stupidly, moved into R talk and of course was looking for a litmus test on where everything stood...well from what I can gather, nothing has really moved. Basically, she's "not thinking about it"...what's that supposed to mean? Today I said to her that I asked whether we will ever be better...her reply, I hope so. *SIGH* not much positive in such a statement as that. In any event, today I will try and continue to focus and move past these events. I have to keep remembering patience, love and understanding, mixed with a little of emotional detachment. I know it is the only way, but sometimes lack of patience gets in teh way....
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Ok, my turn now Rob. You helped me a LOT yesterday and I need to help you now. You HAVE to stop asking her for validation of your fears. She knows you're afraid of the unknown. Basically, she's "not thinking about it"...what's that supposed to mean?
It means either she's not thinking about it, or doesn't want to talk about it with you right now. Remember, detachment is not reacting to her "stuff". I would throw her not being proactive about this issue as "stuff". Just focus on you, what YOU KNOW, not what you think you know. Remember me last night. NOT GOOD. Like Tim has said to me many times, look to my sitch and DON'T do that.
I know it is the only way, but sometimes lack of patience gets in teh way....
Yes, indeed it does. I have the same problem, coupled with an overactive mind and a short fuse when it comes to reacting to something I THINK is going on. Live your life. Love your wife. Count the blessed days she's with you and you get to demonstrate your love in ways you never knew how to before. Remember what my W said to me "You are STILL doing it!" I thought I was changing, but really I was just trying to do whatever I thought I needed to do to get her attention and then I just went back to my old ways. DO NOT DO THIS. You are at a really crucial point. You are where Tim was months ago and screwed up by pushing and pressuring, and worst of all, taking his W being back for granted and as a license to be the "old Tim". You are NOT the old Rob, so don't act like him. Kick his a$$ out of your mind and be the guy who knows all this great stuff about detaching, expressing love in their language, communication, living life for yourself, and most of all, not forming expectations about how your W should be acting/speaking. You can't KNOW what she's thinking right now so until the lines of communication are fully open, stop trying to figure it out. You'll do great today!
GH, Thank you! Yes, everything you have said makes perfect sense and its a little of me needing to practice what I preach. I can imagine that my W would say "you STILL doing it." I am at a crucial point and I need to stay the course...I really believe that she does recognize that there have been changes, I just need to make sure, for myself and for her, that they are real.
Thank you for the reality check GH. I feel much better than I did an hour ago!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Thank you for the reality check GH. I feel much better than I did an hour ago!
Hell, I wouldn't know reality if it sat down and spoke directly to me, in a love language I could understand, but you're welcome. I am just trying to project what I KNOW to do on you so maybe you DO it! Good luck, and have a great day today!
Well, I don't mean to be redundant or to hijack, but I identify intensly with alot of what GH says here, so I'll play off of that, and also because I still see you PArob as in a much better position that I am/was because you have a great shot at avoiding my mistakes:
You HAVE to stop asking her for validation of your fears. Yup. I did this constantly. We would get into R talks constantly, most often spurred by me, whether intentionally or intentionally, and I would start talking in hypotheticals, unknowns and unpredictables to read her reaction. Sometimes I would even go so far as to not-so-subtly hint how I would react, and even make veiled threats and warnings. Either way, passive or aggressive or both I was being manipulative.
Just focus on you, what YOU KNOW, not what you think you know. I think you (rob) just gave me similar advice in my daily sitch update. Good advice.
Remember me last night. NOT GOOD. Like Tim has said to me many times, look to my sitch and DON'T do that. Ditto. I might be out of the woods by now if I did stuff differently 9 months ago. Stay on target.
Quote: I know it is the only way, but sometimes lack of patience gets in teh way.... Yes, indeed it does. I have the same problem, coupled with an overactive mind and a short fuse when it comes to reacting to something I THINK is going on.
Same problem with me. You're not alone. I have an active imagination, working paranoia, little patience and fragile ego. We want it fixed and want it fixed NOW, so we can feel safe again. But in retrospect, it is highly, highly, possible that even though some of the language I read in emails between W and OM was "bogus". Not to dismiss the language, or say "nothing was going on", but it is very possible that it was nothing more than a fantasy for one or both of them, and deep down I want to believe that deep down in my W's heart she knew it was just a fantasy. And maybe if I just left it alone it would have died on it's own.
Remember what my W said to me "You are STILL doing it!" I thought I was changing, but really I was just trying to do whatever I thought I needed to do to get her attention and then I just went back to my old ways. DO NOT DO THIS. Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. I don't if I went "back to my old ways" so much, but I certainly "kept doing it", doing it meaning, looking at her and expecting a certain reaction, expecting her to say "I love you" or say it a certain way, expecting her to give me kisses and shower me with affection or expecting her to say "I'm sorry, I was wrong, I'm so in love with you, more than ever and I want to grow old and happy with you," or ... you get the point. It reached the point that we stopped marriage counseling and she went to solo (and so did I) just so she could get validation that it was ok for her to feel and act a certain way, because she knew she was being dishonest (of course she was being dishonest about no contact with OM too) towards me and acting a certain way just so that "I would not be disappointed". She could see I was changing, but because I was obviously "looking for something", the changes appeared phony and she could see right through me.
Don't do that. Don't put pressure on her.
You are at a really crucial point. You are where Tim was months ago and screwed up by pushing and pressuring Ditto again. I can't stress enough how you need to stay here on this site, listen to advice and experience and keep reading. I actually came here and maybe one or two other "save your marriage" type forums within a week after discovery last May. I devoured Michelle's books and some others. I talked to a co-worker who was a WAW and came back. I let my rage, fears, anger, paranoia, pride, suspicions and everything else take control and I turned to hacking and spying and fretting and anxiety and lame and pathetic behavior instead of turning to support and listening to what other say to keep balanced, stay focused and calm and remain positive.
most of all, not forming expectations about how your W should be acting/speaking. Yes again.
You can't KNOW what she's thinking right now so until the lines of communication are fully open, stop trying to figure it out. Could just as easily be applied to my sitch.
You're doing good PArob. Don't fall down.
Crow Jane, Crow Jane, come 'on, I wanna know,
how you love some man, but don't love me no mo'
YES. Thank you! I am in a much better place just by virtue of having the support of the others here today. I have regained balance and found my center again. I still see myself in a good position at the moment and I DO NOT want to go back to the way things were several months ago. I need to stay the course here because I do see some progress. I want her to say, do and act certain ways only if SHE wants to, I don't want her to say ILY's, give hugs etc., just because she may see that I am disappointed. Sadly, I see this happening occassionally...well, more than that. A lot of times in the morning I get down because, well I haven't detached and I will reflect her mood. 99% of the time this results in a follow-up call by her while I am on my way to work, asking me if I'm okay. Obviously, I made her feel guilty or otherwise for her to want to make that call. That's not the feelings I want for her to have, because its a far cry from validating. She must be free to have and express her feelings, whether glad, sad, mad or happy without intervention or passive/aggressive tendencies on my part.
Again, I stress to myself that I am a lot better than what I was just a month ago (new years holiday was just horrible), but I still have such a long way to go....for myself. I know in my heart, deep down she loves me very much and values what we have, that is a positive!
Thanks again to GH, NYS and WTSI from preventing myself leading myself astray!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
One more thing from my talk with my W last night that may apply to you. It is a variation on a theme but... She told me that she felt she was always responsible for my happiness and if she did not say just the right thing, or act the right way, then I would not be happy and it was a terrible burden for her to carry all these years. I told her I understood that now. I bring this to you because your W may feel the same way and you need to be careful of how much she sees you down, and to what extent she thinks it's because of her.
Good advice.