Thank you. I am sleeping very well these days. I used to stay up and wait for my W to come to bed, not I go to bed when I'm tired and am getting much more sleep because of it.
The lawyer thing still bothers me. I said the admitted seeing her but now that I think about it, she really didn't admit it at all, and when I asked her about who was asking for directions (she said it was someone following her) she said it was just some random person who asked her at a light. I know, STOP. Fine, tell me to stop but this woman is expecting me to just lay here and and accept that she's really a good person who would never do something like see a lawyer without telling me? Sure. Ok.
Detach. The word for the year. I look at Tim, Frank and Vince and wonder what would have happened if they really detached early on in their sitches? I don't know. It seems like many WAS see detachment as more of the same if the LBS was in the habit of being gone or aloof already. Mine will. I am tired. I have a C session today and while I will tell her about the conversation last night, I want to focus on me and what I need to do to grow and be myself, free from this R. I appreciate once again all who helped me last night. Your efforts were not wasted.
Detach. The word for the year. I look at Tim, Frank and Vince and wonder what would have happened if they really detached early on in their sitches? I don't know.
Detaching is just one ingredient. It serves to detrigger a person from reacting on emotions in a negative way. What effect would it have had on these men's situations? True, we don't know what effect it would've had, to what degree, though it most likely would've lessened their emotional pain some, and without their usual reactions, their spouses may have responded differently. But it's not as if it's a magic pill that would resolve their situations. There's much more to the dynamics and history, plus the variable of their WAS, in each of their respective situations.
But not detaching, we can say for sure, would keep them reacting the same way, and get the same results, more likely than not.
It seems like many WAS see detachment as more of the same if the LBS was in the habit of being gone or aloof already. Mine will.
This strikes me odd. This is like inferring that you guys were practicing detachment before the bomb... but you really weren't, but quite the reverse, I'd guess. Detachment is not about acting "gone" or "aloof". If detachment is nothing but disengaging from old reactive negative behaviors that result in loss of one's PMA and add fuel to the pain of the WAS, then detachment is a good thing.
If one of the marital problems was that the WAS felt neglected, detachment doesn't fuel that. For example, if being "attached" meant that one would react by being controlling, then eliminating that attachment so as to not respond that way helps the situation, not the other way around.
If the WAS was feeling neglected, there are other answers to that question. In what ways was she feeling neglected? Chances are it was in not meeting her emotional needs. Did she want you to really listen to her, validate her, for example? You can do that while being detached. All that detachment would mean in that circumstance is that you're not going to react negatively to what she says. She'd feel freer then, to speak of her thoughts and feelings without the typical repercussions; she'd be more comfortable, feel safer, understood, loved. Being detached, you'd be freer to afford her that environment of comfort.
Holy crap. I didn't realize just how far off the path I really was. That part about WAS taking detachment as more of the same was straight out of my thinking from 3 weeks ago, before I realized the key to detaching:
Detachment is not about acting "gone" or "aloof". If detachment is nothing but disengaging from old reactive negative behaviors that result in loss of one's PMA and add fuel to the pain of the WAS, then detachment is a good thing.
Thank you again for setting me sorta straight. DON'T REACT to WAW's stuff. I thought that was SO easy for a couple days last week. I had it right when I said it was only because there really was nothing much to react to. She went out the first night I "saw the light" and I only think I did so well that night because I had a C session hours before. I need to get control of myself. I am not only reacting to her, I am OVER reacting to her. She even said so herself. "You still do it now. I understand but you are still doing your over reacting thing you've always done. I can't go out to get milk without you pacing around, looking like you're going to have a nervous breakdown." Damn, and I thought I did ok covering that up. Guess not.
Its good to see that you're doing a little better than last night and it looks like NYS has once again shown us the error of our ways. I guess our committment to the stated goal of yesterday has faltered? LOL
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
Thanks Rob, I am better now. Not fully, but better than last night. One more thing to add about the lawyer thing. When I questioned my W about it, and said it looked like she was starting to get legal advice, she said "I'm not hiring a lawyer. Even if I wanted to, with what money?" That has been a thought to me too. We can't afford lawyers right now. Is that a good thing?
I quess its good to know that at least she won't be serving any papers :-) In all seriousness, I guess that's really the least of all your worries. It truly is one of those things that you have no control over. Even without the lawyer, things are going to be as they are. Thw WAS is going to still feel the way she does and we have no ability to change it. I truly believe that we both are on the right path here, we may falter, but, at least from my personal observations, its not nearly as far as we have faltered in the past. I used to process, talk and badger to death about issues that I had no control over. Do those things still bother me? Well, yeah, but I have the ability to let them go a LOT quicker than I used to. It appears that you have come that far as well. You figure, its only been a month since you and I have begun this process, relatively speaking, its a short time to expect results...it both took our marriages several years to get where they are today.
Patience, love and understanding!
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
I used to process, talk and badger to death about issues that I had no control over. Do those things still bother me? Well, yeah, but I have the ability to let them go a LOT quicker than I used to.
Rob, you hit it right on! I haven't really thought of that before, but like last night. The convo ended and I just went on to watching TV. I did not pursue it. That is a DRAMATIC change in me. I would talk something to death for hours if my W would stay in the room and take it. This convo lasted about 15-20 min and then I let it drop. Sure, did I have a million things to ask her? Was I disappointed that she chose to say so little? Did I want to clarify, and re-clarify what I said instead of giving her the benefit of the doubt that she heard me? Sure, I wanted to do all that, but I did not.
Back to last night though, she kept telling me I was giving her no credit. Somehow, my lack of trust about what she is or is not capable of doing behind my back is my fault! Oh well, agree with her feelings, don't argue and validate. Rinse and repeat.
GH
P.S. I hear the guy with the keys coming down the hall...
Quote: That is a DRAMATIC change in me. I would talk something to death for hours if my W would stay in the room and take it
This was me to a tee...I used to actually get into work late almost everyday because I had the need to talk about an issue before I went to work....recognize that W just worked an overnight shift and obviously wasn't in the mood for a talk, but darnit, if I didn't want to talk!
I think, and NYS may be able chime in here, that this IS a crucial thing to recognize.
Quote: Oh well, agree with her feelings, don't argue and validate. Rinse and repeat.
Sometimes its hard to agree with those feelings when they seem so irrational...but that's part of validation. They are THEIR feelings, not ours and because they are unique, special people, those feelings have merit. If you haven't already, you should try to get the book I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better. I have started to utilize some of those principles in there with my D's and its pretty amazing the result you can get. Of course, it will take practice to employ those principles everyday, but it really is an eye opener.
"Achieve success, but without vanity; Achieve success, but without aggression; Achieve success, but without gain; Achieve success, but without force." Lao Tzu
If you haven't already, you should try to get the book I Don't Have to Make Everything All Better.
I have been trying to find that around here. I suppose I will order it online. That will be my next read. Thanks.
Sometimes its hard to agree with those feelings when they seem so irrational...but that's part of validation. They are THEIR feelings, not ours and because they are unique, special people, those feelings have merit.
Yes, I suppose. It is VERY hard to even SEEM like I am agreeing with some of the stuff she says. This is semantics I know but (sorry NYS) when I am arguing with my W over her feelings, I am not telling her she is wrong to feel that way. I am telling her that what she thinks happened, or thinks I feel, that CAUSED her to feel a certain way is incorrect. I suppose that's just another way of rationalizing not validating someone.
when I am arguing with my W over her feelings, I am not telling her she is wrong to feel that way. I am telling her that what she thinks happened, or thinks I feel, that CAUSED her to feel a certain way is incorrect.
It's all in the way it's phrased. The message she gets could be "You're wrong to feel that way", which would be invalidative. When you get to read the Lundberg book, that will help you see how to help other people figure things out on their own rather than you telling them in a manner they may be defensive against. Also try "Feeling Good - The New Mood Therapy" by David D. Burns.
I guess our committment to the stated goal of yesterday has faltered? LOL