What if you could never have sex again?

[Stigmata]

And to you also PH-

Let me get this straight. You waited around for an entire year passively observing if your W would ask for sex like some kind of male Jane Goodall with binoculars and an "F Ape Initiation" clipboard?

Does she ever describe you as a "romantic" to her friends and family perchance?

And this waiting around wringing your hands for the day you rock her world with the D bomb. Sorry, man, that's just cold...especially if she thinks things are humming along from now until then.

What will you say when she asks, "how long have you felt like this?"

"Ohhh, YEARS."

If you're unhappy and don't want to be more proactive into what makes an F want to have sex with her attractive partner...and you are insistent this will end in an D, then, please, spare the poor woman these next months or years of her life which will be wasted via your schemings.

Tell her you're done NOW so she still has a chance to find another M more suitable to her needs or lack therof.

Sincerely-

-Stigmata-

[blackfoot]

My post was not angry in the slightest.

I acknowledge your pain, and admire your integrity to your children.

Lets face it, all the crying, and the "woe is me.. she won't play with my john thomas anymore" does no good.
A lesson I mentioned you have learned. which places you ahead of the game for any potential chances there maybe.

I did not even mention sex.. thought I would see just how cold she was. After a year without her complaining once,

This just shows a complete lack of understanding to the fact that women are wired completely different then us.

I choose to honor them with a good nature and not only no complaints but happiness
This is great. but the following belies it.
recently told me " isn't it nice that we are so in tune now?" I almost fell on the floor laughing.

this attitude is completely incongruent to your being happy with the quo

I suggest you reread the beginning of my post. aintgetany needs some tough love, but he didnt come to Divoce busting to listen to someone tell him its hopeless and to tell him to plot his D. There are myriad other places for that.
If its safer for you to remain hopeless, well I understand that too.

[Greeneyedlass]

PitHarmon,

I absolutely disagree with you. What you are telling him to do is to not even try to fix his R. He wants to fix things, he wants to improve....what did you do? Did you try anything or did you find it easier to think "she's cold, it's all her fault." If you think that, you're disillusioned.

What you are doing IMPO is cold, colder than having an SSM. You are living a diliberately cold calculated time in your M until YOU decide it's time for it to end. I have this feeling in my gut as I said.....your W doesn't have a clue what's in store for her....because you haven't told her....she thinks you two are "in tune" because you aren't clueing her in to the fact that you two aren't....so YOU are misleading her.

So...if this is your take on things, why are you participating on a BB where people want help FIXING their R's....in order to be happier and live in a more fulfilling R?

I notice you still haven't mentioned ANYTHING you tried in order to address the stich in your R. Did you try anything you read on here or did you just give up?

GEL

[CeMar]

blackfoot:

I did not even mention sex.. thought I would see just how cold she was. After a year without her complaining once,

This just shows a complete lack of understanding to the fact that women are wired completely different then us.

Can you please expand upon this one. I know I have gone for months without touching my wife in any way just to see what would happen and NOTHING happended. Now for the HD women on this board that would drive them nuts, but it did not bother my wife at all. So what exactly ARE women wired for? And why are HD women wired completely differently. And which one is normal?

[Greeneyedlass]

CeMar,

Of course nothing happened when you sat back and waited on her....she's LD, that's the nature of an LD person. Same thing happened when I was LD, same thing happened when I waited on my LDH to come to me.....nothing. For whatever reason an LD person is LD, and there are many reasons this could be (disconnect in M, abuse, hormones...or other reasons)...they don't think about sex like the HD person. I still get the feeling from you and your posts that for you this is a right/wrong issue....and you feel your W is wrong, rather than different from you. That you are still looking for us to agree with you, rather than really looking at your R with your W and seeing where you hold accountability.

CeMar....let go of the notion of trying to find "normal"....there isn't a "normal", it doesn't exist. Really, get thee to a counselor....ask these questions of him/her, see what the response is you receive then.

GEL

[honeypot]

MrAint,
Why do you think you have such a hard time insisting on a certain nonnegotiable level of affection in your M?

Are you afraid that something will happen if you do this?

Why would you seek out affection from a stranger but yet not have the wherewithal to insist on it from your wife?

I encourage you to really think these answers through. It is hard sometimes to see where our own culpability lies, when our partners are so darn neglectful of us, but when the smoke clears, I believe you will see that you are contributing to your own unhappiness in a significant and continuous way.

Here is an example: I was afraid of bringing it up, of insisting on affection because somewhere deep in my mind I thought it meant that 'if I had to insist on it, then he didn't love me. It was all a mistake and our marriage was as sham.'
None of that turned out to be true, but I had to take a leap of faith when making that first step. I didn't KNOW that it wasn't true. As long as I wasn't making waves, I didn't know the potentially painful truth that he didn't love me, but at the same time I kept myself stuck in a sexless marriage.

In other words, you can't have one without the other. There is no painless or vulnerability-less way to approach this. You can't baby her (thereby babying yourself and your potential loss, for that is what you are doing) AND change the dynamics of your affectionless M at the same time.

One last question: What does it say about how you feel about yourself that you'd let a person continue to not touch you and yet beg them to come back when THEY threaten to leave?

Your wife does not respect you, or your requests for touch, because you do not respect you.

[HappyGiant]

I find this all very interesting... for a number of reasons.

First, Honeypot, while my wife will not see a counselor, I certainly am on my own as I try to come to grips with what all has happened and he said on of the same things you did, something that I have thought about alot: I went through all the effort to pull off a stunt of getting some attention from a stragner all as a ploy to get her attention. Now I have it, so what am I doing with it? According to him, not much of anything.. and that frustrates him to no end. So I am analyzing why that is and what I am afraid of.

And after this board yesterday, I am now alanyzing my "self pity", something I never realized I had. Almost everyone who meets me says the same thing, that I am one of the few people that can see positive in ANY situation. My parents constatly have commented over the past few years in seeing the relationship I am dealing with, that I must have the patience of a saint. I feel like I have always have a positive outlook.. until yesterday... So I am looking into the comments here to really try to figure out if the way I am coming across to others is completely different from the way I come across to others in my own mind.

Another thing that I have thought about since yesterday is my own relationship power (or lack there of). And MAny of you are right.. Somewhere, sometime I gave up all of my power... why? and how did that happen? I need to evaluate that.

I know I have been a bit gun-shy in this relationship. I have been a total push over. My first marriage ended in an absolutely shocking to me divorce that I never saw coming. (took my wife out to Dinner for Valentines day thinking all was fine in the world. Loved my wife, loved my 2 kids, life was grand, then as I gave her a diamond necklace, POW I got the 'I want a divorce' line that I just didn't see coming) I had to deal with that slap for a long time.

So in this relationship, I have always gone above and beyond the call of duty to make my wife happy. I do ANYTHING she needs regardless of if I want to or not, because I think that if I can just make her happy, all will be well. I also suck at confrontations. Arguing is just not my strong point. So I avoid them like crazy. It is far easier to say what I know she wants to hear and keep peace than thrust in my own opinin and muck things up. But in the process of trying to this "ultra husband".. easy to get along with... will do anything she needs, I have given up all power. I just need to figure out how to get it back.

Without sounding whiny here, I am just stating the facts as I see them as I work to sort out what to do... I have tried to do what a few have mentioned. I say I need a neck rub so I take her hand while watching tv and put it on my neck... that will provoke an argument. "I told you, I don't like touch and when you do something like that, it makes me feel forced and it is a sign that you don't respect my feelings. You told me that you'll do anything for me, even if you don't understand or are not in the mood and what I am asking of you is that you respect the fact that I cannot touch right now. Maybe I will be able to again after I lose some weight but right now it is something I cannot do, so start respecting my wishes and not force me into an uncomfortable situation"

After that, I feel bad. I retreat, I try to understand her feelings, but bottom line is that I still feel rejected. I feel there is no where to go. I think I have spoiled her, spoiled her rotten. She even admits that she was living in the perfect relationship up until a few months ago. Of course she was.. she had a cook, a servant, a baby sitter.. she could kick back and relax knowing I was taking care of everything else.. why complain.. all somehow oblivious to the fact that I was screaming out as unhappy. (If that is leaning towards self pity, I apologize, I'll snap out of it)

Soooooooo, the question now in my mind is this: You all have brought up the fact that I have given up all power in the relationship... You have a point there.. But how do I get it back without suddenly looking like a jerk.

I don't mean to sound like a self pitying whiner..
My sex life stinks..
I'm not gettin any..
My wife wont talk about it..
She wont go to counseling..
waaaaaaaah.

I am just trying to figure out how to fix it. Even with all the insanity, I love my wife. To me it is way easier to fix something that is broken than start over and put my kids through upheaval and pain. I have been down that divorce road before, and have no desire to do it again.

And maybe you all just need to keep slapping me with a 2x4
(Or REALLY BIG RED LETTERS!) until I get it, if so... bring it on.. I appreciate the insight.

[Greeneyedlass]

mraintgettinany,

One thing you can do to regain power in your R is this (as I see it anyway). When she tells you she cannot touch and that you aren't respecting her feelings....call her on it. Tell her she "can" touch...she's able bodied. The fact is...she's decided she won't touch you, and won't let you touch her....and that she's not respecting how YOU feel. If she starts to throw a fit, tell her you said what you meant....then drop it. Walk away if you must.

You've got to start asserting yourself and your wants/needs in this R if you are going to get anywhere. It's not easy to do, and it's likely to make you so very nervous the 1st time you do this....but you are going to feel better about yourself after you do stand up. It will become easier for you to assert yourself the more you do it, just try to remember that.

Also, I can easily see how people might see how you can see the positive to any situation....you want people to see that side of you. Here, you are asking us for help and support in problem we all share in one way or another...from one side or another. In telling us of your problem...we are more easily able to spot the self-pity

GEL

[blackfoot]

Can you please expand upon this one.

I can, but I'm not going to.

Im capable of replying to questions, are you? your non responsiveness and apparent dismissiveness have annoyed me sufficiently.
Dont ask me for anything you are not capable of demonstrating, in the way that I need it to be shown.

[Stigmata]

[block quote start]Without sounding whiny here, I am just stating the facts as I see them as I work to sort out what to do... I have tried to do what a few have mentioned. I say I need a neck rub so I take her hand while watching tv and put it on my neck... that will provoke an argument. "I told you, I don't like touch and when you do something like that, it makes me feel forced and it is a sign that you don't respect my feelings. You told me that you'll do anything for me, even if you don't understand or are not in the mood and what I am asking of you is that you respect the fact that I cannot touch right now. Maybe I will be able to again after I lose some weight but right now it is something I cannot do, so start respecting my wishes and not force me into an uncomfortable situation"[block quote end]


-- AGA. Two things. First, never ever ever again tell your W you will "do anything for her." especially even if you don't understand. That's a huge suck of power from you right there. She does not have carte blanche to do or feel like she can do whatever she feels in your R. Period.

Second. "I don't like touch." WTH? Does sh have that horrible painful disease where if something touches her skin her skin falls off? At some point you're going to have to stop enabling this behavior and demand that she open up to you about what the hell is bothering her so much. And, if not you, then an IC or MC or psychiatrist.

Now. Don't ask me to explain the irrational comments that Fs sometimes make but this one is a doosey. "Maybe after I lose some weight" I can touch you? WTF?

This makes about as much sense to me as an soup sandwich.

You're asking her to just simply rub your neck. That's all. What the hell does her losing weight have to do with putting her fingers on the back of your neck--even as a freaking friend? How will that affect her caloric intake or exercise burn?

Is your neck made of cake? [scratching head]

Does she have a sense of humor? Man, I would be all over this one. Like this:

"Ah, what better way to burn some calories and exercise than by starting with moving the fingers? Like they say, gotta start gradually. [grabbing her hand again]. Come on. My neck's killing me, you have great hands, and I need your mojo to get the knots out."

Is she ever playful? If she still resists after this and becomes bitchy about it [which I can't imagine in my sitch] I would be very direct/curt with an F who did this.

"All I am asking from you is a ridiculous little neck rub. My neck is stiff. I can't reach it myself. Two minutes and you can go back to your TV. Otherwise I'll just see you later. I'm going out for a bit."

And once I got her to do it, even if begrudgingly, I would tell her exactly where to rub and how hard. And I would reward her with a hell of a lot of sincere praise and compliments...followed with appreciation. Believe me, we all like to feel appreciated for something, including your W.

...But if she still adamantly refused? I would even acknowledge her at that point. I'd get up, whistle to myself a happy little tune, grab my coat and head out the door just like I said. No explanations. And I'd get a beer somewhere or whatever you would do. Go to the pharmacy and look at the magazines. Put a wager on the ponies at an OTBetting place...blah blah.

Finally, Thanks for being a good sport and taking my previous comments in the manner in which they were intended. And I'm not speaking from some place of high horsedom here as the reason I am on these boards is due to the fact that I, too, gave all of my power away in my R. And my tone was partially directed towards myself. Trust me, there isn't a person out in cyberspace or alive on this Earth who can kick my a$$ better than I can kick the living $hit out of myself.

I had power, loads of it. I was pursued by x on and off for 9 years. I couldn't be tied down. I roamed all over the country at any given moment. Then I committed. Then she cheated and I never believed it would ever happen nor saw it coming.

Huge raw bleed of power from me. Massive power hemorrhage of confidence, assertiveness, self-worth and, yes, even humor. I piled on the AOSs, became needy and supplicating, and gathered up any of the few needs I had and fed them through my psychic shredder.

Result? Wuss-bag. And I was left in the sitch you're questioning now. "What the hell happened to my power? Why did I do that?"

To correct this. I fairly recently mentally/psychically blah blah used sheer will to take back all of my power from her; and I forgot that I had loads of it at one time. She dropped the ILYBNILWY bomb, we split up, and I am living my life on my own terms now.

I am GALing. I do not initiate convos. I decide when and if I will speak to her. On the rare occasions I do return her call I am happy, confident, aloof, humorous, cocky maybe; and, frankly, projecting a "don'tgivea$hit" attitude about the R. And R talk never comes up. And, frankly, I'm starting not to care if it does because I am hording my power as I see fit and focusing on myself, since if she doesn't want me then I know eventually someone else will. And, besides, if she doesn't want me; I want me all to myself for the time being since I spent a ton of my time on her over the years. And I know she wants some of my power back because she knows who I am and she knows I am the type of guy who can burn a person out of my life forever if they cross my final boundary...smirk in his/her
face...flick my cigarette butt into the fire...walk away and never look back at the burning flames.

So don't worry. You're in a good community here. You'll get your power back. Gotta start slow as if you do it too fast it won't be congruent to your past personality and you will look like an a-hole with a chip on his shoulder and an ax to grind.

Start by not supplicating to her wishes and desires to be freakishly coddled. Yes, you lov her very much. But you have to love yourself first. And she has to respect you and not keep you in limbo/the dark while she deals with her "issues." Again, from what you're describing, your W needs some big time professional and perhaps medicinal help.

-Stigmata-