What if you could never have sex again?

[Stigmata]

Hi, MrAintGettinAny,

Thought I'd follow your sitch a bit. Interesting comments from others who know what it's like to feel the same frustrations. I'd heed their words; good people.

I'll be blunt. After reading some of your discoveries I think you could add: ...foralonglongtime to the end of your poster handle.

First. Your sexual R is officially dead. RIP. That paradigm has utterly imploded. You are now caught in the void between the now destroyed paradigm and the prospect of building a new paradigm with either your W, or, worst case, someone else.

The submarine is sinking fast. Only way out is blowing all the tanks and jettisoning all weight to try to get your M back to the surface. This tank and weight jettisoning I'm talking about here is any and all thoughts from you of sex and "gettinany." Forget about it. Having sex is the least of your/your W's problems right now.

You mentioned your wife said during this initial discussion that she has "low self image." So low, in fact, she says she feels "paralyzed?" She said this to you? If so, she is probably extremely depressed; and depression kill kill kills the libido. And the fact that she said this out loud makes it that much more significant. Cry for help though she doesn't know how to go about getting it right now. And the "what if" scenario she posed. She's been dealing with this in her head for a long time to go to the length of backing it up with such detailed examples (paralysis, you being a singer, soccer player etc.) so she could confront you with it.

There's an 800-pound gorilla somewhere in her background that, for some reason, she never felt comfortable enough to tell you about it and, also for some reason, it has resurfaced in her psyche over the last 5 years. Why won't she share--even if only a little bit? Does she think you will judge her re. the "incident?"

Very hard as I don't know your convo and EC dynamics. Could be she doesn't want you to judge her negatively or feels shame (ie, her low self image comment), she doesn't feel you truly listen to her and put your needs in the R always ahead of hers...any number of things on which I can't speculate.

"...Last night I had a lengthy discussion with a church leader that had been keeping up with our craziness. He said a few interesting things I thought I would share. First, my wife is going through a very unstable time. There are a lot of things she is having to mentally deal with and her past is so crazy that this is no surprise. Something somewhere must have happened that is really bad and she knows that if she goes to any counseling that this could resurface and that would just be too painful for her to deal with. It is far easier for her to repress and maintain than to deal with whatever it is. So the prospect of going to any kind of counseling is immediately nixed.

Next, This is a time I must come to grips with exactly how much I do love my wife. With all that she is mentally dealing with and without help, could mean that if I do really love my wife and want to keep my marriage intact I must love her completely.. unconditionally. Excepting that that means for a while, I may not get anything in return. I need to see this as though my wife had been raped. If something like that happened, I could not realistically expect my wife to bounce back and meet my sexual needs right away. She would need to heal and recover and who knows how long that could take. Even though the "incident" whatever it may be happened before we were married, and I don't know what it is, it is effecting her in the same way. So do I love me wife enough to go through this, understanding that may not get my needs taken care of. He thought this was not a problem that would take months to solve, it could take years."


-- Little confused. Did she tell this church leader of her "issue?" Sounds like it. He says it will take years, not months, to undo. So I assume he knows something you don't. And if she can tell him she can tell an IC or MC, frankly. Suppressing this kind of "paralyzing" self-hatred/loathing, thus enabling her depression to continue unchecked, will only end very badly for the whole family. She needs to spill...purge...unload...till it's all out in the open and the monster is killed by the sunlight.

About this choice she first posed to you. Worst case scenario too...lifetime of no sex? Will you stay with me? Pretty drastic as well as hopelessly unrealistic ssenario. It's not reality-based. Part of her probably knows it. She's testing you. She's testing your commitment to her, which, again, shows that she doesn't fully trust you not to judge her...accept her...stay with her even if she tells you the awful, awful truth. It might freak you out so much you'll run and she cannot handle that. Being rejected and left alone. She cannot handle that final blow to her already decimated sense of worth and self-image and right now she's not willing to take that risk of revealing the monster to you.

And the bluff I saw. Think HP and others saw it too from their comments. The "day I go to to an MC is the day the M will end." Then why all the histrionics over packing up and leaving and leaving that "I'm gone" message? See what she's doing? She really doesn't want the M to end b/c her words are incongruent with her actions. Her comment suggests she has no real intention of being the one to end the M.

Gotta call her bluff, friend. It's on you now. This is where you throw up a rock solid boundary. If you let her get away with her threats she will eventually lose all respect for you as a strong, assertive man who knows what he wants and is willing to fight for it (and, more importantly, her). And she will continue to threaten...and leave...and conflict avoid ad infinitum in an endless black loop.

"The day I go to an MC is the day our M will end." Your response? "Well, as far as I'm concerned, the M ended when you left me that message and took off. Message received. I won't live like this. If you won't go to a C or MC then you may as well start the paperwork because it shouts to me that you have zero interest in saving our M. You started this, so you're going to finish it."


"...I tell my wife all the time that there is soooooo much more that we can do, if we just stay caring and creative. It doesn't have to all be intercourse.
Sometimes it may be cuddling on the couch, sometimes it may be showering together, or sleeping naked together (to pull from another discussion). Heck,
I'd be ecstatic to sit in church and have my neck rubbed like I see other couples do, like CeMar mentioned. I"D LOVE THAT! But to my wife "that is all
sex" in her mind."

--Sigh. Another one fallen prey to verbals. "Telling her all the time." Sigh. Her defensive walls are so thick and soundproof your words are the last weapon on Earth that will do anything to break them down. Might as well be throwing pebbles at them. Stop talking. All she hears is Charlie Brown teacher "wah wah wahhhh."

You want to cuddle? Pull her to you on the couch. She gripes? "Shhhh, you smell good tonight and I like it. Relax. Here's a pillow. Put your head on my lap.." If she complies? Rub her head/hair. And don't turn it into sexual groping etc. If she thinks you're just trying to make a move on her? Blow it off. "Nah. Not in the mood anyway. Just thought you'd might appreciate a nice head rub." (believe me, if she continues to push away she's going to feel like a real a-hole after a comment like that.)

And why did you give up all of your control? If you want a neck rub grab her hand and put it on your neck. If she complains? Gets grouchy? Blow it off. "My necks' stiff. Your rubs feel good to me. Sheesh. I'm not asking you to jump my bones, for godsakes. Get over yourself already, babe." (then laugh and tease so she doesn't take it the wrong way) Stop waiting around for her to initiate anything; her black state of mind ain'tgonnagetchaanywhere. Lead. Be confident. Be assertive. Counter her pi$$ines with humor and positivity. She will mirror your frame of mind eventually. That's why it's vital for you to not project negativity.

And if you 2 really haven't touched etc. for a very long time you're going to have to take charge of this. Touch her as you walk by or reach for something. Put your hand on her lower back as you walk through crowds etc. Baby steps. Gotta start there with touch. It's why premie babies do so well in incubators when volunteers come into the ICU to "touch" and caress them. Proven fact. Amazing effect on recovery when compared to isolated babies who aren't regularly touched. That doesn't go away just because we age.

You just said you crave physical touch and she hasn't given it for the last 5 years. Obviously one of your love languages. Did you tell her this? And I don't mean in a sexual outcome way. And if she's unwilling to even do the very least of touchhing or kissing you, for godsakes, as a start then she needs to deal with her issues ASAP and sh!t or get off the pot in this M. There are 2 people here and it ain't all about one or the other griping/freezing out the other because their needs aren't being met or their internal issues resolved. That's called unfairly wasting the other person's life and acting like a spoiled child.

What you need to do:

Immediately drop all thoughts of sex as that is a very long way off.

AS MWD says, "believe half of what you see and nothing you hear." She tells you she will never have sex again? You should accept that? BS. Testing. A positive person who is happy with herself does not say these things. Get to the bottom of why she does not like herself to be willing to deny herself pleasure and hold herself and you in an ice block of total marital misery.

When she is happy with her life she will be having sex again.

Stop waiting around for her to lead. She won't. You want her to sit closer to you at the movies? Put your arm around her and pull her to you gently. If she protests? "Shhhhh...you don't want the other people to know I'm afraid of the dark do you?" Then laugh and blow her off. Believe me, it's very hard for an F to stay grouchy with a guy insistent on having a good time. Her negativity feeds off your negativity and anger. If you get rid of yours and replace it with humor, confidence, and positivity hers will starve and die. Trust me on this.

So that's a start. Stop being so passive. Forget the sex for now until she deals with her issues. And if MC is that important to you then you'd damned well better hold her to respect that boundary and she'd better start participating in trying to revive your M because her issues are way beyond the scope of the 2 of you and she needs a 3rd unbiased, solution-based professional.

And I would add maybe some antidepressants as well...

-Stigmata-