new, blue and searching for a clue

[Stigmata]

counselor.

old Corri post 2U:

"...See? You did it. Now practice more and more, with all kinds of things that happen to you on a daily basis, from that area of "KNOWING" that is inside you.
Become more familiar with it by deciding what YOU DO want... for yourself, no one else. By saying to yourself... "Okay, I AM worthy of life, I AM the driver of my own bus of life (not a victim of it)... so what does that mean, specifically? Who is this person? What does she want from life? What does that look like?..."

from new Corri post in response 2U:
[landica]
"...Well, this could be. Maybe I just learned to expect so little from my father, in terms of love, affection, affirmation, that I'll too easily settle for little from another man."

Block quote end
[corri]
"...This is the understatement of the year. Perhaps this is why you have dodged my question... what, exactly, are you getting out of the current situation with your XH? Exactly as it is"

And now. A word or 2 from my good friend, Robert, to tie together the above excerpts I plucked from the 2 corri posts :

"We all sit around in a ring and suppose,

While the truth sits in the center and knows."

-Robert Frost-

...and the "we" here I do not mean Corri or the rest of us on this BB. But as Frost intended. The "we" is each of us. Each of our inner dialogue, inner voices. Trying to understand why we do the things we do.

Repeating from corri's old post once more:

"...from that area of "KNOWING" that is inside you...."

"...While the truth sits in the center and knows."

Repeating from corri's new post:

"...what, exactly, are you getting out of the current situation with your XH? Exactly as it is"

..."While the truth sits in the center and knows."

Exposition:

There are 3 sentient "entities" within each of us. I've recognized each of them in me. There is the primary conscious proactive, physical stimulus-response day-to-day survival me. There is the secondary inner dialogue me who incessantly gabs away at the first me with his neurotic opinings about his fcuked up R and heartache (at present anyway.)

And there is a very...very goose-bump-inducing powerful 3rd entity in me who watches these 2 others with detachment. And he is always dead silent. Yet he is all knowing. Not God per se but definitely made of the same material. Frost's "truth" that "knows" perhaps.

Here is your inner dialogue "entity" trying to assume the rightful place of your own 3rd all-knowing "entity" I [and perhaps Frost] speak of. Also taken from an old post from you BTW:

"...In my darker moods, I sometimes phrase it to myself as I'm a character in a book that's really about someone else. And not a major character, either. All I can do is watch, from a distance and through a glass, darkly, and try to discern the "real'" plot of the story...."

Your secondary inner voice is helpless in this role. That makes you feel helpless. She cannot discern anything from the plot [your life] as you say because only your 3rd entity can do that. Self-directed people act. Self-victimizers react. Actors drive the car; captain the ship; pilot the plane. Reactors sit shotgun; aft; in coach.

Yank this inner voice from the center of the ring. She is out of her element/league, overmatched, and very weak at this point in your recovery. An ineffectual doormat. Looking at all of the dials/knobs/controls on the Boeing 777 in bewilderment...

Tap into that 3rd observer inside of you. The one who watches the primary physical you in constant discussion with this self-loathing supplicating, weak inner voice. If you are able to completely clear your mind you will feel her...and it might give you goosebumps when you feel her. Damned powerful. Damned knowledgeable. And damned silent...detached...radiating pure rational truth and thought.

Listen to her. She will tell you what to do. If you put her back in the center of the ring, where she rightfully belongs, she will show you the way.

She is a boundary goddess and she will not accept dishonor, disrespect, or selfish manipulation from others to her corporeal "host."

She is smart. She is gorgeous. She is desireable. She is successful in life. She is confident. She is assertive. She is good-natured/funny. She is someone any man or woman would be crazy to lose.

Let her point her finger to your secondary inner dialogue doormat. "Silence." Let this vibrant being take over for a while, what do you say?

It'll get rid of all the back and forth gab gab gabbing going on in your head. Her silent strength will clear your mind...so you can make your next decisions/actions in your R and in your life in general...

-Stigmata-

[landica]

Hey Corri, this is great (and I mean that). I feel like someone is standing up for me and really trying to help me out, since, g-d knows, I (clearly) have enough trouble trying do that for myself.

[NOOOOOOO.... Sweety you SOLD them to each other. You talked about your wonderful friend to your boyfriend... you talked to your best friend about your wonderful boyfriend... you KNEW this guy wasn't for you... you set yourself up.

---

You have *no* idea how true this is. I always thought that Steve and Sarah would be a better match than Steve and I. And not 'cause I felt like Steve was too good for me. In fact, exactly the opposite.

Oh, and, of course, now I see that they fit so together well because they're both lying, betraying, disloyal SCUM.

Actually, X ran into Sarah the other day, and told me that she not only has gained about 30 pounds, but also has developed some kind of weird disfiguring skin disease, sort of like leprosy. I said I would send her a bell as a present.

Perhaps this is why you have dodged my question... what, exactly, are you getting out of the current situation with your XH? Exactly as it is... and he's currently being sweet, my azz. His radar is up... something ain't right in dodge... he KNOWS you are onto him, and you are very close to kicking his poor worthless butt to the curb. Can we say... M-A-N-I-P-U-L-A-T-I-O-N?

---

Let's see:

1. to see my son every day (joint custody sucks)

2. interesting, stimulating conversation with someone who really understands me (I've often thought to myself that if I could only talk to one other person for the rest of my life it would be X)

3. support when I'm down (for example: I've been going through a tough work-related situation -- which I've fixed by arranging for a transfer to a different unit-- much to the dismay of my soon-to-be-ex-supervisor who is whining because she might actually have to do some work for a change. ) Throughout, X has been extremely supportive and helpful.

4. financial support: my life is a lot easier than if I had only my salary to depend on

5. some (but far from enough) affection and admiration

6. hard to put into words, but it makes me happy just to be around X. We can be sitting in the living room reading or out at a restaurant and I'll look at X and I'll feel happy just to be with him (You know the drill: I love him, but I'm not *in* love with him)

L

[landica]

Stigmata:

I'm not exactly sure that I understand exactly what you're saying, but I think that, at least in some circumstances, I am able to act instead of being acted upon.

For example, this work situation I was talking about in my previous post. The front office put someone in charge of my unit who I quickly decided I was not going to work for. I pulled a few strings, and within two weeks, had done something that is not easy to accomplish in my office, namely arranged for a transfer to a different unit (much to my new supervisor's dismay).

And I put down my foot and told my soon-to-be-ex-supervisor that I would not be taking any of my cases with me (except the few that related directly to my new unit) and that she was just going to figure out how to deal with them herself. She got really mad and slammed the door in my face. I just laughed and casually mentioned her bizzare and unprofessional behavior to a few well-chosen people.


You know, thinking about it, I suppose that what I'm really afraid of is that if I really start to assert myself that I'll have to kick X to the curb. Which I don't want to do. For, well, a lot of reasons. (see previous post).


But, Stigmata, if you could try to explain to me again about the three voices/entities (sounds a little Sybillesque)...... I'm still not sure I get it.

In fact, I'm sure that I don't get it.

L.

[Corri]

Lan:

Good Lord, woman... do you have any idea how flippin' NORMAL and HEALTHY you are? You have a serious propensity for accepting others' problems as your own (and this I would limit only to men with whom you are intimate)... but other than that... shoo'... you are about one of the most admirable people I've run across. So stop beating yourself up or you will be insulting my highly honed admiring skills. The job situation thingy you just described ALONE proves my point. Dam me girl, I really like you. You know Who You Are, and you know What You Want. And you know What You Are Capable of/what you aren't capable of. That is one rare person indeed.

Okay. Let's now revisit your confusion and sadness issue. Based on what you've described about yourself (inaccurate self-assement), and more importantly, when we compare it to your actions (which completely belie your self-assessment)... you will begin to see you are owning a problem that is not yours to own. This is where your confusion is coming from.

Your sadness comes in because you can't fix "you" enough to solve the problem. And when you can't fix the problem, you become more confused.

Again, you can't fix this problem because it isn't yours to fix.

I think if you can really and truly accept that what is going on in the affection/sex area with your xH is NOT your problem, (yet you think it is somehow about you)... then you will begin to see where your chronic confusion and sadness is entering the picture.

I realize I am repeating myself to death here... but I want to make sure you get this.

Even if you don't agree with me immediately... (cuz I know you aren't going to want to)... just for exercise sake... let's take you out of the equation. Would your xH's affection/sex issue still be a problem for you? No. Would your xH's affection/sex issue still be a problem for him? (I'm gonna go with yes).

Now. To be fair to you... when we interact with people who have a problem who, for whatever reason, legitimate or not, don't want to deal with their problem... the typical M.O. for that person is to make the other person feel as if THEY are the one with the problem. Projection.

What you've done here is accepted ownership of the football (the problem), and you are running full tilt down the field with the ball... and all the while you are saying to yourself... 'what the hell am I doing? Oh, I've got the ball... that means I'm supposed to run with it... well... okay... but, wait, I hate football... I don't want to play football... what the fck am I doing?...."

So you stop running, because you've got this ball someone gave you and told you to run with, but you don't really like playing football, thank you... and you go to hand it back... and then someone (xH) barks at you "You've got the football, RUN!!!!!" And so you take off again....

This making any sense to you?

Now. Do I think you're helping solve the problem? No. Actually, by claiming this problem as your own, you're making things worse. But that you CAN fix.

So. I need to know two things here from you. One, given everything life has thrown at you, you are an amazingly well-adjusted, healthy, normal woman. I'm sure you have your quirks, we all do... but for the most part, very normal, very healthy. Can you see this? Can you accept this about yourself? Read back over your posts if you somehow seem to think I'm shoveling sh!t at you. And I think most people here would agree that I don't stroke egos just to make someone feel good.

Two. Can you truly accept that this problem is not yours to own? You are not the problem? (You may not be helping it, but it isn't yours to own.)

Think on it. When you are ready to answer, when this realization truly hits you, you will know it. And then tell me how you feel about you now.

Then we'll proceed.

Corri

[Stigmata]

landica--

I've been avoiding you. I'd admit. And a big reason is I see a lot of my x in you in terms of where you are. This is her last summer.

And in the workplace she is a take no prisoners gal. Never have I seen another employee anywhere she worked reach her efficiency/productivity. At least 2x faster/more than next best employee. She wants a raise? Goes to CEO and gets it. New position? Makes sure it will happen sooner or later.

So what we're talking about here is a disconnect between your professional life in terms of assertiveness and your personal life, which is currently being controlled by an fear of abandonment supplicant. And this supplicant has been further entrenched by your deep wounds over Steve and Sarah. Sorta like venturing away from H for the first time into the street and getting run over by a meat truck. At which point H was there to scoop you up and bring you home to rehabilitate.


"You know, thinking about it, I suppose that what I'm really afraid of is that if I really start to assert myself that I'll have to kick X to the curb. Which I don't want to do. For, well, a lot of reasons. (see previous post)."

- And this is why I tried to stay away. Pain. I know this is exactly where my x was last summer. Your reasons not to. All of which I can see her saying to a girlfriend over lunch. And the love but "not in love" last line. Yep. That was my final bomb. She got over her fear of losing me and cut me loose so she could find being "in love" again.

In many ways, I was your H. Not quite the background issues but the sulkiness, yes, depression, frustration with keeping up with x in the financial measurements (which is not your sitch as we've already determined). And I became LD. But, unlike you, she never brought it up. We were actually having some good times but she started detaching from me in her new jet-setting new city, new country, new hotel life surrounded by scads of Ms and Fs either Ded or in midst of D. And all of these people have all the great convos to engage/network, are dressed to the nines, and all go out for expense account dinners, jazz/dance/comedy clubs and bars with plenty o inhibition-lowering booze.

Was very obvious it was sucking her in and she started leaving me behind. What kills me is she brought up the sex issue during the bomb after the fact. And, like you, all her x's are now sniffing around, sending things, making moves. When I read what you did to freezer guy I really admired that as it is easy to get sucked into a place from vulnerability. I can only assume my x is commiserating with newly D older guy with money, among others and was not so dismissive.

So there are the parallels anyway so far. I'll let Corri continue her questions etc. and at some point I'll try to give you some perspective from H's side. I speak from experience. Arrrr. I hate this. More revealing garbage. I suffered 2 crippling depressions over the past 13 years and I somehow emerged from them with zero assistance. I am currently in a mild one, if I am honest with myself, yet I am GALing to combat this.

Let me just say. Your H is in a funk and he doesn't even realize how it's affecting you, trust me. Those comments from your last post. I see how it would play out. Like my sitch. If you were to tell him the "not in love with you" line and firmly decide, as my x, to leave him I am pretty sure, like me, a month or so from now he will be on a board like this and trying to GAL to either get you back or rebuild himself into a more desireable man. When I get more info about him I can give you more M perspective.

Now...
"But, Stigmata, if you could try to explain to me again about the three voices/entities (sounds a little Sybillesque)...... I'm still not sure I get it.

In fact, I'm sure that I don't get it."

- Know what? I'll be honest here. I don't get what the hell I was trying to say either. Shrug. Late hour. Delirium from sleep wreckage. For some reason I went all zen buddhist on your azz. Not to mention way overcomplicating a straightforward issue, as I will be the first to admit I may do from time to time. Overthinking is an issue I recognize and try to not let muck up important parts of my life.

Sybil. Let me assure you I do not have multiple personality disorder with 3 voices in melon. I would tell you honestly if I did. But, on the other hand, having a gum-popping, hair-twisting, rope-jumping 12 year old girl suddenly pop out of me during a business meeting would add some much-needed spice and be fodder for some pretty cool convos afterwards.

The entity thing. Basically something out of Trance Meditation. What I was getting at is what I see from your interactions with H and others. And your comments about feeling like a minor character in your own story. What I think Corri is continuing with is showing you can lose your past issues that make you a victim. Seize control of the bus in your personal life and drive it to where you want to go. Perhaps via one of the ways she cites in her "Stupid Question" thread to make yourself heard to your SO.

In my last post I was saying that I see this weak victim inner voice in your head, who needs to get more assertive, confident, self-assured in the attraction/desireability department. But Corri is already all over this.

The 3rd voice maybe isn't a voice at all. Maybe just clarity of thought/purpose. But it's always there. If you just learn to quiet the feeling-powerless-in-your -R-voice and empty your mind for a period of time and listen for it; think about how you truly feel about H and landica-driven solutions to get yourself and H to where you want to be. May also be called F intuition.

Blech. Starting to get weirdo zen again. But it is what TM gurus do. And what Frost writes. Let this observer look at your R sitch with selfish, confident, detached, what's best for landica first perspective.

Ahem. Carry on. And if you're wondering about H's behavior just give a shout, esquire.

-Stigmata-

[landica]

but other than that... shoo'... you are about one of the most admirable people I've run across. So stop beating yourself up or you will be insulting my highly honed admiring skills. The job situation thingy you just described ALONE proves my point. Dam me girl, I really like you. You know Who You Are, and you know What You Want. And you know What You Are Capable of/what you aren't capable of. That is one rare person indeed.

---

She likes me. She really likes me. Thanks for saying all those nice things.

Even if you don't agree with me immediately... (cuz I know you aren't going to want to)... just for exercise sake... let's take you out of the equation. Would your xH's affection/sex issue still be a problem for you? No. Would your xH's affection/sex issue still be a problem for him? (I'm gonna go with yes).

---

Sure. I do agree with you totally, completely, 100% here. (surprised??? ) It *is* his problem. He's admitted that he's had this exact same issue in every relationship he's ever been involved in. And that that's what caused those relationships to end.

But, you see, that really does leave me feeling helpless. If it's his problem (and it is, it really is), well, then, there's nothing I can do to fix it. And he doesn't seem to want to fix it.

So. I need to know two things here from you. One, given everything life has thrown at you, you are an amazingly well-adjusted, healthy, normal woman. I'm sure you have your quirks, we all do... but for the most part, very normal, very healthy. Can you see this? Can you accept this about yourself?

---

Normal? Healthy? I dunno. Would someone who really was normal and healthy put up with the sh*t X gives me? Wouldn't someone normal and healthy say to herself, I am sooo out of here, kick X to the curb and go on to live her own life?

Life sux. At least my life. At least right now.

L

[Corri]

Corri:

But, you see, that really does leave me feeling helpless. If it's his problem (and it is, it really is), well, then, there's nothing I can do to fix it. And he doesn't seem to want to fix it.

Normal? Healthy? I dunno. Would someone who really was normal and healthy put up with the sh*t X gives me? Wouldn't someone normal and healthy say to herself, I am sooo out of here, kick X to the curb and go on to live her own life?

Ugghhh. Ewh. Ick. And you were doing so well.... tsk, tsk. We are talking about YOU, not him. Can anyone say FUSION here?

You should take a gander at my "Stupid Question" Thread. If for no other reason than to use some of that honed lawyer arguing savvy on Cobra... but I digress.

Okay. Let's leave his problem out of this for a sec. WHY did he come back to you? I know why you are with him... why is he back with you?

Corri

[landica]

Blackfoot:

He should <shudder yuccky word> respect what you dont want. He will only respect which you require.

---

Okay. But. But I *can't* require anything from X. Or at least I can't see how I can. He does what he wants. Example: I had a friend and her kids over for dinner tonight. X refused to come down and eat with us, saying he felt "sick." He made an amazing recovery, though, later in the evening when he had to go out to "teach" a class (ie, show a movie). I didn't say anything when he came down, but continued my happy, laughing conversation with my friend and her kids. But if I did say anything, I know what I'd hear:

"That's just the way I am, Landica. It's not my problem that you're not happy with it. If you don't like it, leave."

Ok last scenario. You in turn must also respect what he doesnt want. Which brings us back to choice. either he wants to talk about the R or..... ?? either you accept that he is the way he is or .....??

---

It doesn't look like I have too many options here. I guess I can put up with not talking about the relationship (an ex-boyfriend drove me absolutely up the wall with his constant need to discuss the re-lay-shun-ship). So I can identify with his dislike of those conversations. But I don't see what I can do --except tell him to leave -- if I can't accept him the way he is. He's got very clear boundaries.

Im going to differ with corries assesment of your marital contract. Marriages existed for millenia without POP. Pieces of paper. You and H have remarried for all intensive purposes. Joint dwelling, socially recognized, family unit, implicitly understood fidelity. Id wager there are even joint finances somewhere. my opinion.
at any rate those POP have no consequence on emotion and rarely on action.

---

I don't think I agree with you here. If we had never been married, I might consider a marriage contract just a piece of paper. But we were married. And now we're not. I think of myself as single. It actually would mean a tremendous amount to me if X wanted to get really, legally remarried. But I know he doesn't want to. And that hurts. And makes me feel less committed to him. And also more worried that he'll leave (which, yeah, I know, might not be such a bad thing). But, for me, it's not the same as being married.

L

[landica]

Ooops, guess that was the wrong answer. But I know you're giving me credit for trying....

You should take a gander at my "Stupid Question" Thread. If for no other reason than to use some of that honed lawyer arguing savvy on Cobra... but I digress.

---

I've read almost all of it, but, so far, haven't been able to formulate a coherent addition to the discussion.

WHY did he come back to you?... why is he back with you?

---

If you asked him (and I have) he'd say "it's because I can't afford to move out" or "it's for our son" or "it's more comfortable for me to live in the house" or "Landica, if you think that I love you, you're just fooling yourself. I came back because I felt guilty"

The real reason? Who knows?

The last day or so, I've been feeling a sort of constant low-level hostility emanating from him. He's always annoyed with me. I can't do anything right. Everything I do or say bothers him.

I would be better off without him in so many ways, though it would probably mean I'd have to sell the house (which I'm extremely attached to).

Not summoning up much of a PMA at the moment. Though I did have a fun evening with my friend and her kids. We just couldn't stop laughing. And I started today in my new unit -- which is going to be challenging, fast-paced and exciting. And my S14 is a great kid -- affectionate, funny and smart. And he really loves me (despite the expected teenage angst) and isn't afraid to say so. I am so lucky to have him.

L.

[LustForLife]

"Landica, if you think that I love you, you're just fooling yourself. I came back because I felt guilty"
That one, along with all of the other just charming answers you think he would give you (or has given you) about why he is back in the house, makes me wonder why on earth you would actually want to remarry him I'm lost here. When my H moved back home it was only going to be with bowing to the alter of LFL (at least for a little while ) Similar to what we have been telling GEL of late regarding how her H should be acting right now.
Why do you let him get away with that BS!!