After reading through this thread, I have to agree with Corri, (and Stigmata I think, if I can get through his long post…). Your tendency to hang on to your ex smacks of heavy codependency to me. That has everything to do with you and nothing to do with him. Until you clear up these issues, trying to get your ex to address his issues will be an exercise in futility. He is smart enough to see through your walls and any contradictions or weaknesses within you. He does sound a little narcissistic too. Trying to out-rationalize him will not work.
And like Blackfoot says, threatening him will just cement his position to stay distant. You know he is emotionally damaged. My feeling is that he does want to “feel”, but he has built up such strong walls that he cannot. He convinces himself that he is happy, only because he knows that at the moment he is not unhappy. So learns to believe that he doesn’t need affection and he stays within his walls. I believe he is not unlike any other human being and he does want a loving relationship. He is in VERY DEEP denial. His glints of anger toward you sound like projection. Pulling him out of his shell into a healthy emotional state may be next to impossible. But working with him and learning more about how the two of you interact will help you deal with your issues.
So Stig and Corrie agree, and Stig and BF agree, and Cobra!!!!! (welcome back WTH you been?) and Corrie agree and Cobra and BF agree,
but Corrie and BF disagree? LOL. your killing me. LOL. <head shaking> Corrie I completely agree with you. So there, I know you would rather fight, but work and life and excellent women posting about how hard they work at a R, (my x was hard working, and really pretty excellent, up till the pesky A thing. frack Ive owned mine allready, get outta my head.) and stupid barrel biter songs with bad synth music, got me worn down. I could have gone ..... mmm... forever whithout hearing that particular piece of crap.
I was leaving ideas, and giving Landica things to ruminate on. She needs to change how she comes at the problem and institute some new thought pattens as all three of you specifically pointed out.
Quote: What would a confidant person do.... what would defuse the situation, yet set boundaries at the same time
So if you think she is currently being confidant, setting boundaries and defusing rather then escalating the current situation, them by all means we disagree. Is that checkmate yet?
Since she does want to have a good R with her SO, she cant exacerbate his issues, just because she decides to work on hers. There is this whole other option besides attack and retreat.
I love your championing of womens boundaries posts though. They make me wanna shout, "YOU GO GIRL".
give me a few days, I wrestle with you somemore. Im taking a timeout right now.
Landica,
Have you ever been angry? Did you see Mrs. Nops people pleaser post?
Well, darhlin... <makes squeaky sound on teeth with tongue, scratches her head in a bit of confusion and bemusement>...
.... how, exactly, did my post to another person become about you, sweetpea, simply because I disagreed with one very small part of your post... and referred to it in order to explain my own thoughts on what might be going on with Landica?
And if you'll re-read my post, it has nothing to do with boundaries or Getting A Life... I'm probing for something a bit deeper here with her... and no, it has nothing to do with her xH or some "Strong Women Rule <snap!>" stand... or anything else...
ah, bf... < chuckle >
Landica: <-- indicator of who I am addressing In my opinion, listen up if I wasn't clear earlier... I think you are feeling very confused on certain aspects of your life... you feel the confusion... it expresses itself as sadness and perplexity within you... you seem to be looking for this source of confusion so you can fix it... fair enough. Smart thing to do.
Given your personality type, and your propensity to blame yourself for everything... I don't think you are going to find your source of confusion... because you aren't looking in the right place.
I think your xH is part of it... he is a symptom... a by-product, if you will... of this confusion... but him, his problems, how he acts, doesn't act, decides to change, not change, etc., has nothing to do with why you are confused... and you continuing to look to this R as the source is only going to keep you confused.
In my opinion. The R is NOT the problem, never has been... and once free of the clouds of confusion... never will be. Landica... whether this man loves you or not, wants to be with you or not... has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING.
Let me know if you would like to explore my direction. If not, cool.
Wow. I'm going to try to work my way through all of these responses
Blackfoot said:
Quote: And just let me add that H was a real sweetheart these last couple of days.
Figure out what the dynamic was that caused this. Do what works.
Yep. I'm pretty sure I've figured this one out. See below.
This is simultaneously the pot calling the kettle black ,by him, and an insight into your H. You needed him, he stepped up and 'took care of you'. This is a very strong desire/motivator for men --to be the rescuer. He does care for you.
This is exactly what's been going on over the past few days. I've been having a hard time at work (new and unpleasant supervisor) and H has been seeing my hurt and trying to support me and take care of me[/red]
L: I understand you feel that way, but is that how you really want to feel? Maybe you could change
Quote: ... Don't say this again
Point taken
I ultimately respond to the barrage by saying something like "I refuse to be around someone who talks to me like that" and leave the room or the car or the house. Which, in essence, means his strategy works
Quote: This has to be changed. Its threating to him, invokes his abandonment, love avoider issues, brings up his walls. change it to what though? mmmmm...... thinking..... what would a 180 be. What would a confidant person do.... what would defuse the situation, yet set boundaries at the same time.
Give us some of your ideas, smarty pants Lawyer. Ill hold back on mine for now.
my ideas: sorry, I'm stumped. I've tried ignoring it, saying something equally hurtful back, trying to make it into some kind of joke, saying very softly "you know, that really hurt me." None of these have worked at all. So I welcome your thoughts.
Quote: YOU are the issue... what is driving you, internally, is the issue.... and I think since you are unclear about what is 'driving' you, you are continuing to be confused by seemingly outside occurrences and using them as the reasons for the discontent in your life... reasons for the problems in your life.
You are extremely hard on yourself and leave little, if no room for yourself, to be human. You are beautiful, smart, successful in your career... have a great home, a son, a man who you consider to be 90% perfect... yet you feel like a great big failure. You know ALL of this, and I'm sure you are even perplexed by why you continue to feel like a failure. You keep looking for your answers, because no matter how with it and together and successful it all appears, you still feel unhappy and confused. So you figure if you are feeling this way, there must be a reason for it... so you keep looking... OUT THERE. You continue to look OUT THERE because all you find IN HERE is sadness and confusion.
Yet as I say this, I bet you feel like "the answer" to all this 'stuff' is always right there on the 'tip of your tongue.' Right there... but just out of reach... it'll flit through your brain every so often... you feel it zip through... then it clouds up again.
Am I in the ballpark here?
Corri, (to use your analogy) you just hit one out of the ballpark. That's pretty much exactly how I feel/think.
Quote: L, Do you think you have a problem processing and/or feeling anger?
There's nothing wrong with being angry. Sometimes it's even necessary.
I definitely have a problem with feeling anger.
It's not that I think that being angry is wrong. It's just that, even when it's totally appropriate to be angry, I search my soul and what I feel instead of anger is intense sorrow. In fact, I sometimes feel like a failure because I know I "should" be angry, but I just can't feel the anger.
I realize that it's said that depression/sadness is often just anger turned inward. In my case, it's something I've become an expert at.
Quote: L, Do you think you have a problem processing and/or feeling anger?
There's nothing wrong with being angry. Sometimes it's even necessary.
I definitely have a problem with feeling anger.
It's not that I think that it's "wrong" or "bad" to be angry. It's just that, even in a situation where I know that it's totally appropriate for me to be angry, I look inside myself and I can't feel anger. Instead, what I usually feel is an intense sadness.
I know that it's said that sorrow is often just anger turned inward. In my case, it's something that I've become somewhat of an expert at.
Stigmata: I'm going to try to respond to as many of your points as I can, but I do have to put in some work today to justify my salary....
Quote: This man is very very unhappy. Why? And I doubt it's you. he is not happy inside/happy with himself, judging from these and other comments. Almost self-hatred. The denying himself the basic human esential of ever physically touching another person ever again.
You're right. I think H really does almost hate himself. And, over the years, he's tried so many (mostly self-destructive) ways to try and make himself feel better about himself: alcoholism, running up enormous debts buying things he can't afford and doesn't need or use, OW, bulemia, daily psychotherapy... Not surprisingly, none of them have helped and most of them have hurt.
Quote: but get to the bottom of why your H is so unhappy with himself. Not enough info. Is it possible he is threatened by your career and success? I've known my share of academics who, despite being geniuses, can't get past the "those who can't do, teach" stigma; always feeling inferior to their peers with similar educational backgrounds yet who had gone into the high-paying private sector instead of lower paying academia.
I'm almost laughing at this one (not to be mean to you), but just because I guess I haven't really explained the work/money situation clearly. I'm the one with the (relatively) low-paying public sector job. I'm a prosecutor, which is rewarding in many ways, but certainly not financially.
H on the other hand, has tenure at a so-called top ten law school and makes way more than twice my salary. You see, unlike other academics, law school professors at the "best" schools (besides having all the perks that go with being academics, summers off, short working hours, no direct supervision) get paid a boatload. And I'm talking salaries that top out at well over $300K (not that H gets paid anything like that). Plus the opportunity to do lucrative "consulting" at the tune of $500/hour.
If I had to guess, I'd say that H feels like a failure partly based on his current complete inability to produce any publishable work. He's had writer's block ever since he got tenure and that makes him feel worthless.
In addition, as I might have mentioned before, he had a pretty bad childhood. His father left (for OW) when H was very young, leaving H's mother with 3 kids under the age of 5.
H's mother's was a mathematician and workaholic who, although I'm sure she loved H deeply, never said "I love you" and never hugged or touched him in any way. Because H (unlike his brothers) had no particular talent in math, H was always considered the "stupid" one of the familiy.
H's father didn't pay any child support, didn't see H very often and most of the time didn't show up when he promised to visit. On the other hand, H's father lavished attention on his new family with his new wife and eventually told H that the new wife wasn't "comfortable" with H and his brothers visiting any more.
H's mother got breast cancer when H was about 10, and, while she lived for another 15 years or so, was constantly in and out of the hospital. She was also hospitalized several times for depression, leaving H and his brothers in the care of a neighbor.
The only person who ever gave H any "positive" attention was the coach who sexually abused him for years. So, I can certainly understand H's unhappiness and anger.
Quote: Does he exercise and get out, as BF asked?
In a word: no. Though he did go skiing yesterday with our son.
Quote: Think BF again mentioned, maybe incorporate his academic etc. or intellectual interests so he doesn't think it's all a bunch of yucky sticky R hooey.
I'm going to think about this one. But H is far from stupid and my bet is that he'll see right through it.
Quote: Also. Another bluff: "go find another man." He is positive you won't call him on it.
Let's just say, maybe he shouldn't be so positive that I won't.
Okay. So in summary: PMA, GAL and get to the gym more often. I can do that.
Quote: Corri, (to use your analogy) you just hit one out of the ballpark. That's pretty much exactly how I feel/think.
Okay... give me some time to draft the theory that is floating in my head. Just had one of the most amazing business days in a long, long, long, long time, and I've got so many ideas racing through my head right now, I can barely keep up with myself. Writing notes all OVER the places... yeesh. Wow... ever had that happen? Oh, thank god, it's come back... thought it was gone for good...
Sorry... I digresses... k... I'll be back at you. Hang tight.
I may be way off base in what I am going to say to you, so take this however you need.
But I get the feeling that your primary problem in finding happiness is that at the very core of you, you don’t feel lovable. That sounds very simple, but the undoing of it is anything but.
I don’t know what it was like growing up in your home, but I would venture to say that either one or both of your parents were emotionally distant (probably your father). Emphasis was probably placed on performance, and you somehow began measuring your worth by what you accomplished, how you acted (proper or not), etc. You never felt like you were ‘good’ enough, and probably wondered why you couldn’t be loved just ‘for you.’ This does not mean you had an unhappy childhood, this does not mean you aren’t a pretty happy person in general. As a matter of fact, I would go even so far as to say you have a hyper-sensitivity to others – picking up on their feelings and emotions – and in order not to become overwhelmed by this ability of yours, you learned to stifle it over the years. In your authentic state, I’d say you are probably one of the most understanding, radiant, happy people on the planet… but over the years, this part of you has diminished because you’ve been around people who have sucked that life force right out of you.
If this is the case, I’d like to ask you a question. Really think about it, and if it hits home, it’s probably going to really smack you in the gut.
What if neither of your parents really loved you? What if that were true? How does that make you feel, and where then does that leave you?
Think it through. Don’t be afraid to consider it, even if it stings a little.
Let’s start here. I think we should take this one step at a time so you can find the answers yourself, rather than me just writing a dissertation and telling you. I do have a direction with this, so please be patient with me.
If I’m off-based, please explain, or add to what I’ve said here as needed.
I know you would rather fight, but work and life and excellent women posting about how hard they work at a R, (my x was hard working, and really pretty excellent, up till the pesky A thing. frack Ive owned mine allready, get outta my head.) and stupid barrel biter songs with bad synth music, got me worn down. I could have gone ..... mmm... forever whithout hearing that particular piece of crap. 
