new, blue and searching for a clue

[Stigmata]

Hi, Landica-

Glad you're getting such great input from these folks. I'm multi-tasking today. Valentine's Day coming so the busier/more distracted the better KWIM?

As the ladies like HP, Corri, LFL, HapH, GEL, Karen, Chrissy [sorry if I forgot anyone]are saying, you need to take inventory and start outlining concrete boundaries for yourself as to what you will NOT accept in terms of your ultimate happiness in your R. You might not be surprised to hear that you have become the martyr in your martyr-user R. Willing to give give give while expecting crumbs in return, along with backing down when your H lays down the law as to what he is willing to give back to you--which isn't much at this point IMO.

Forgive the utter dissection of your posts but it helps me try and understand where you are a little better.

First, the argument. Yes, your H pulled out the big hurtful guns and went overboard...but there are seeds of truth spilled out in every angry outburst. You just have to parse them out and winnow them from the angry chaff.

"H: Well, I guess we're just different. You like affection and I don't like affection. You like having people touching you and I don't like people touching
me. In fact, I'd be happy if no-one ever had any physical contact with me again."

Are you F'ing kidding me? Seriously. Ask yourself this. What would be your reaction if this man said this on a date with you the first month of your R back at 22? I'm betting there would be a dust trail behind you as you headed for the hills.

And I'm also betting this man liked more than "touching" you and you "touching" him back in those early days. Which is why this is total BS from him. And what M "genericizes" his own W to the status of "other people?" Dear, you are WAY more than "other people" IMO. He had better remember why he fell in love with you in the first place or this R will turn into the Titanic and another M will reap the benefits you have to offer--which I see are many BTW.

Also. This man is very very unhappy. Why? And I doubt it's you. he is not happy inside/happy with himself, judging from these and other comments. Almost self-hatred. The denying himself the basic human esential of ever physically touching another person ever again. jeez Louise, Mr. Drama Queen. A fundamentally content/happy with him/herself person will NEVER say something like this. Happy/content people radiate positivity and charisma and they touch others and others want to touch them.

Negative self-hating people on the other hand drive people away, as BF verbalized,via "their psychological stench."

It's akin to someone with cancer, and I've known my fair share unfortunately. The ones who withdraw, are angry, negative and black, always talking about the cancer, God's unfair, nobody understands how they feel usually end up alone because no one wants to be around them It's too painful not to mention psychologically based. All of us have enough of our own life crap/trauma to have to be reminded how someone else's is so much more horrible. Theirs reminds us of our negativity about ourselves and we want to run away.

On the other hand I've met people in same sitch who speak not a word of their suffering, are afectionate towards others, and basically somehow have learned to quash the "woe is me" sorry for myself vibe amazingly. They actually radiate charisma and positivity and everyone wants to be near them and return their afection.

An extreme example, admittedly, but get to the bottom of why your H is so unhappy with himself. Not enough info. Is it possible he is threatened by your career and success? I've known my share of academics who, despite being geniuses, can't get past the "those who can't do, teach" stigma; always feeling inferior to their peers with similar educational backgrounds yet who had gone into the high-paying private sector instead of lower paying academia.

And you pulling long hours while he is at home. Do you think that bothers him on some level? Not the typical traditional stereotypical M-F dynamic of F in apron/M holding briefcase--and we all know it shouldn't matter--but it still affects a lot of Ms internally and makes them feel inadequate/insecure.

Does he exercise and get out, as BF asked? This is vital. Physical activity and sunlight kill dark brain moods. Endorphins. Sitting around reading while internalizing unhappiness is a dangerous cocktail. If not, he should watch his diet, go for walks, swim, lift weights--something to get his blood flowing.

And this goes for you too BTW. Like you did way back when.

"L: I understand you feel that way, but is that how you really want to feel? Maybe you could change.

H: I don't want to change. I'm happy the way I am and if you don't like it, you can just get out."

- Ouch. I bet looking at your "change" comment now you can see his reaction coming a mile away. Hit full on his defensive hair trigger. He's right. Only he decides if he wants to change. And the irony, eh? "I'm happy the way I am." Uh, no, I respectfully disagree. No, you aren't.

"...and if you don't like it, you can just get out."

-- Posturing, as I'm sure you know. He knows you are unwilling to put up a boundary here and call him on it so he's walking all over it. He's pretty darn sure you would never ever actually leave on your own volition. If you did I'm guessing it would scare the hell out of him.

"...L: Well, if you feel that way, why did you want to get back together with me?

H: It was just for our son. If it weren't for him, I'd wish I'd never met you."

-- So what was the REAL reason he came back then? I'm guessing he said something entirely diferent the first time he asked you to take him back. I'm guessing he would rather spend the majority of his time with his W than merely cohabitate with her in order not to unwittingly "scar" his son.

And this "wish I never met you"? Whoa. Seed in his anger. Get to the bottom of this ASAP> No one says something like this without a big stinkin' pile of resentment attached. Use big time boundaries to drag it out of him if you have to.

If my x said this to me? You would hear brakes screeching etc. as everything ground to a halt. "What the hell did you just say to me? I am not leaving here until you tell me EXACTLY what you mean by this. You'd better sit down and tell me what's on your mind right now because you're not leaving until it's all out."

"...L: Well, you know, I'm not going to stay forever in a relationship with no affection and no sex.

H: Fine. Go out and find some other man. I'm sure you won't have any trouble. I just don't want to hear about it. Now, please stop whining (at this point
I was in tears) and leave me alone, because I need to read this article about the revisionist analysis of the signifier in post-modern structuralist art
criticism."

--Yeah, he shut himself down. The last word he heard from you was way back at "change." These comments are just his brain on autopilot. Next time pick a better time to confront him with the R talk maybe. Is he ever in a pleasant mood where he wouldn't feel threatened by a little open and honest discussion? As I think BF again mentioned, maybe incorporate his academic etc. or intellectual interests so he doesn't think it's all a bunch of yucky sticky R hooey.

Also. Another bluff: "go find another man." He is positive you won't call him on itt. Another boundary that doesn't exist for him to be thwacked with. And your tears [I'm giving you a big hug BTW] while completely understandable only reinforced to him that he scored a direct hit in that you are going to back down every time. A controlling person feeds on that kind of power trip.

Again, i highly doubt he means any of this hurtful behavior. He's very defensive, reactionary and takes off the kid gloves to wallop you due to his total self-loathing. A confident happy guy projects positivity and never ever ever would encourage his F to seek out other Ms. No f'ing way.

The only time he would would be when an F is purposely spiteful: "Gee, so and so is single now. Great guy. Maybe I should go after him since you can't seem to do anything right." Confident Happy M: "Okay. go ahead. I'm sure I won't have a problem finding another F if that's how you feel."

It's called an iron-walled boundary.

Now. Something you said. I'd like to compare your voluntary descriptions of 2 men in your life:

"...I am really really fond of H. I'm very attracted to him (he has gorgeous broad shoulders, long eyelashes and killer cheekbones). He's one of the smartest
people I've ever met and (trying not to brag here), one of the few who can keep up with me intellectually. And he's not totally hopeless on the romantic
front. In fact, he just e-mailed me one of Shakespeare's sonnets."

Two things. "I am really really fond of H." And "he is not totally hopeless on the romantic front."

I would have preferred to hear you say, "I love my H like I have for no other." In the second example, bit of a negative spin. Yes, he's hopeless, but not totally hopeless. Not quite a ringing endorsement but I know what your intent was with it. Not a big deal that can't be overcome.

Your other characterizations were of his intellect and a few physical attributes.

now. Let's compare the above voluntary description of H with your later description of "Steve."

"...but I fell in love, hard, fast and in a way I'd never experienced before, not
even with H. Steve and I dated for about 2 years. I adored Steve, loved his kids and wanted to marry him. Unfortunately, Steve wasn't interested in committment.
At least not with me.

I talked incessently about my relationship with Steve with all my female friends, how much fun he was, how sweet he was, how much I cared about him, how
great he was in bed.
I was especially candid with my best friend Sarah, since she was one of my few single friends and could understand what I was going through. Anyway, I'm
sure you see where this story's going."

-- Whoah. Now I am going to answer a question you later raised with your own words:


"...So, I certainly can't blame all of my empty feelings on H. And I don't really understand why I have so much trouble letting go and moving on from the Steve
and Sarah incident."

-- And the answer is? you have trouble letting go because these were 2 people in your life for whom you felt a very very strong emotional connection (ie, "like no other"); you had immense trust in both of them, judging from your willingness to share intimacies, and they both betrayed you in the absolute worst possible way...ever. You should give yourself a ton of credit, here Landica. You are a hell of a lot stronger than you may think. Forget about isolating yourself from friends today etc. I'm surprised this didn't send you off the deep end and straight into an isolated wordless monastery.

--And the solution? The following...

"...city with lots of ethnic restaurants. We (meaning me and H) spent a lot of time together, doing ordinary chores like grocery or furniture or antique shopping
or going on weekend trips to art galleries or nearby B&Bs. I had a challenging new job, working with some wonderful people. I was teaching myself to cook
and spent a lot of time entertaining and trying out new recipes and fun "theme" parties. I was in fantastic shape, mostly because I was a workout fanatic
(there was a brand-new gym in the basement of my office, which we were encouraged to use during lunch hour and after work) and often I worked out twice
a day. H used to pick me up at work every day and call me all sorts of sweet nicknames."

-- This Do as Often as Ye Do it.

Get back here. Square one. Engage your H with what got you both there in the first place. how did you interact? Future plans? goals? Dreams? Gotta go find those things that attracted you to each other in the first place. Dust them off and get back there.

And work out. both of you. You will look and feel better towards each other. And make friends. And start entertaining those friends...

"...Some of those things are similar now. I live in a (different) big city and have a beautiful house and a great job. But I hardly ever get to the gym. I don't
entertain all that much. I spend alot of time alone doing chores and very little time with my female friends (see explanation below)."

--See? You already know the anser. I knew you were a smartypants. Go find a girlfriend who is positive and who has unshakeable integrity and character. Hard to find these days in Ms, Fs, but they're out there.

Now, back to hubby. Lest we leave thinking ill thoughts of the man you love. Yes, love. It's okay to tell us you love him...unles you don't that is.

"...And just let me add that H was a real sweetheart these last couple of days. I was having a hard time with a work-related issue and he comforted me, actually
gave me a big hug
, told how much I meant to him and took me out to dinner at my favorite restaurant. So maybe it's not as totally hopeless as I made it seem?????"

--Tsk-tsk. Gotta watch it with me. I'm an perceptive kind of guy. Probably to a fault. Gotcha. Second use of "not totally hopeless." This is not Landica confidence or positivity. I know. you're still not convinced you've made the right decision to take him back and you have doubts about it on a daily basis.

Now, let's bring back "Steve" again...

"...how much fun he was, how sweet he was, how much I cared about him, how
great he was in bed."

This is what you want. This is how you want your H to be. These are your attractors as an F. You can't change him but maybe by changing yourself he will start becoming a "Steve" over the next weeks, months, years?

Your H is the epitome of dark clouds. you are the epitome of doubts, internalizing, punishing, not forgiving yourself when you should be kicking H's a$$ with solid boundaries against his TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE disrespectful behavior.

And your sardonic wit in this midst. "he actually gave me a hug." Well, dress me up and call me Shirley. A WHOLE HUG? Is this what you will settle for in terms of a victory? Where's the parade? Please don't take this sarcasm as insolence from me. I'm actually angry at the guy and feel for you. Did he kis you at least? Hugs are for buddies and acquaintances. He'd better watch it or he's gonna find OM to kis you if he doesn't get out of his selfish funk.

GAL, Landica, GAL. It's the only way. No, changing yourself won't always change the other person but it will do a hell of a lot to give you some much needed self-esteem. You have a truckload of attractive qualities, so don't let H's dark clouds obscure them from your own self-image. Stimulate your mind and your body. Eat better. Purge the toxins from your system. And this includes toxic behavior from H. He's being an a-hole to you and pulling out the guns? Don't cry. Let him have it right back. Boundaries are needed by all to protect our vulnerable parts and insecurities so others don't wantonly exploit them for their own purposes.

Positivity. PMA. So as you think, so shall you project. Your H's negativity is sucking the life out of you. Don't let it. Being happy with yourself despite what his own issues are will burn away his negativity and starve it every time. "Why the hell is she so together/happy? What's her deal? And why didn't she cry after I ripped her a new one like that?" it will eat away at him and drive him crazy in the good sort of way. The way that lures people out of their shell to see what all the buzzing and hub-bub is about when the figurative circus comes to town.

You were your own person before H and you are still the same. if he can't appreciate it, recognize it and deal with his own misery then your GALing will leave you with a clear mind, great body, and a positive, confident charisma that will attract many a dashing fella like ants to honey.

Excuse the lenght of this. Wasn't my intention. Helps me get out of my head.

Keep the faith. And, as Gandhi said, "Become the change you wish to see."

-Stigmata-