Chrome Lets Talk About SEX!

[haphazard]

Thanks for sharing your "not in the mood" scenario, it does help me understand better how my W might be feeling at times. There is one difference though, and you may find this hard to swallow but it is true. I have NEVER approached my W for sex physically, and when she didn't seem interested just kept on fondling her, etc. until she gave in. This is for two reasons. One, I am not assertive in the bedroom, something I am trying now to change about myself through the coaching of some rather assertive gentlemen here on this board and by reading some books.

When I approached her in the past, it was through words, asking and even pleading for sex, always accepting a no or a maybe later, never pushing the issue. Two, I have always had this feeling that if I did push the issue, my W would not have just gone along with it. That doesn't mean she hasn't just gone along with it at times, I'm sure there are times she didn't want it but did it anyway to pleasure me.

Words! You must really have a way with words Chrome - LOL. I can't believe she can go for it because you ask without starting anything more physical. I will tell you a little story - A long time ago in a far off land when I was in college I hung out with a guy and we were strictly friends. Well one day we were riding back from somewhere on his motorbike and he said - "hey we do everything else together, how about we go back to my place and go to bed together" YAARRRGGGHHHH! I politely turned him down. We're still friends. :-) Now if he had approached the whole thing more subtley and more physically he might have got somewhere. I mean if he had suggested we go back to his place to hang for a while I most likely would have agreed. If he had stuck some music on and kind of engineered some sort of physical activity such as dancing or play fighting he could have crept towards first base (say a kiss) and it would've have built up from there (maybe). Just asking me in words was a disaster! Mind you as I say we're still friends I'm not sure that would be the case if we had had sex - LOL
But I have just always had this gut feeling that me pressuring her into it by physically fondling her to get her excited would result in disaster. Maybe I'm wrong.

Yes I think you are wrong - not pressuring her but leading her along all the while being alert to her cues as to whether she is enjoying it. Maybe she doesn't want to be in charge of saying Yes or NO. Maybe she doesn't know yet when you use words but just doesn't think so. Words are engaging her conscious mind, the one that has been brainwashed into thinking of sex as bad. The clues you have been getting from NOP, BF and Stigmata are all good. Stuff about going so far and then stopping is all good.
As far as your quickie suggestion, I do like the idea in general. But what I fear is that my W will just get into the mode of giving a quickie every time. Is that an irrational fear? Maybe quickies are a good way to just keep things going until she finds her inner hottie. Again, I'm just confused by all of this.

I understand your fear that that is all you'll get, but I doubt it. You will rev her engines with quickies. Women's engines like to be kept running, if you let them go cold they don't fire up as easily. Sometimes I can go for a week or two not even noticing that we haven't ML then we do and the next night I'm like "where's the sex in this M - we NEVER have any" Maybe try a quickie one night and then try for another the next night? She will still be a little warmed up from the night before and start getting into it. Maybe as you get going a little teasing with "I'm starting to get an idea that maybe your interested in more than a quickie? Am I right" - said in a teasing I know you're a naughty girl really kind of voice. Maybe she'll say "No a quickie's good" or maybe she won't answer if she doesn't answer at this point she more than likely means YES but doesn't want to admit it. At this point start to get to work on more foreplay type activities (it doesn't matter if you are already having IC), thrust a bit harder and say things like I'm right aren't I? You do want more don't you? The conscious part of her mind, the one that is hearing your questions is confused because you're giving her a chance to say NO and she's not saying it - so it gives up and lets her body do it's thing. I feel it would be very unlikely that she would be turning you down by this point so I won't go into details over what might happen next.

Stigmata had a good point when he said:
All of this is why I would avoid the "quickie." for now as you and Fran have been discussing. Maybe later down the road. Cart before the horse. Yes, her feelings of shame combined with the wham-bam-thank ya ma'am vibe of a quickie will only lead her to believe you're just interested in using her body to get your rocks off. After all, she Os from fondling along with kissing so that means to me she ascribes a deper connection to kissing/fondling. Opposite ends of the spectrum here.

But I would say two things, one is the quickie is HER option not yours so it is not wam-bam thank-you mam. Second one your youngest is still tiny and she is nursing right? Libido is not high in this situation that is nature trying not to get her pregnant again too quickly. When mine were that age and mums would get together conversation would invariably turn to sex and H's wanting more of us than we felt ready to give. IMHO most mums of babies under a year would prefer a quickie. Which isn't to say you can't try for more if the moment seems right.
I was spot on when I said you sound like a more mature version of my H, I have read my way through most of your current posts now Chrome and you are another self-hater with low self-esteem. If I know anything about guys like you W will pick up your vibe when she turns you down and the pain in your eyes or the nervous smile of it's OK coupled with deadbeat looking body language will hurt her. She will want to avoid hurting you as much as she humanly can, because your reaction of personalising everything serves to transfer alot of the hurt back to her. Self-haters cannot bear even the slightest knock, raw and tender self-esteem winces with every percieved blow. That is why she will have gone along with you even so-called not pressuring her and she will nonetheless have felt pressured. But I think you are starting to understand that.
I can see how my W could turn my own self-denigration into me thinking she was at fault and thus having her own version of the self-denigration. I'm seeing that the only way out of it is for me to approach her confidently, repeatedly over possibly many sessions until she internalizes the fact that what I mainly want is the EC, and not expecting hot sex. At the same time, when it is sub-par, don't personalize it as a failure on my part, which in turn makes my wife feel like she has failed.



See you are getting it

take care Chrome, I can understand why you might want to give writing on this board a rest for a while. Geez I've been here nearly three years on and off but mainly off.

Fran