Chrome Lets Talk About SEX!

[Stigmata]

-Salutations Chromo et al-

First of all, I am not very sharp at present, so take into account. Up till 5 a.m. last night dealing with London and my sleep continues to be out of whack. Up till 5 again now. Taking "tomorrow" off.

Secondly, as I had reminded everyone ad nauseum, and as I am a man of my words, I had every intention of making this post, post #69, my final journaling post on this board. (wink-wink, nudge-nudge, Corri for the idea). I had been writing it out even, and was ready to post but decided to trash it to the recycle bin. I frankly don't care anymore what the number is and I am quite positive no one else on these boards really gives a flying fcuk either (gee, can ya tell what kind of mood I'm in?)

See, I felt I had to set a strict limit for my "journaling", posting, and "fixing things" as it is my bent to get sucked into problem-solving as is one of my stubborn-a$$ed Taurean traits. I've been keeping a detached eye on the sitches lately but have noticed you in a bit of the throes of the familiar ups and downs again lately, Chrome. (I saw your other thread and may pop in there as well after this.)

I also came across I think Chrissy's invocation for some words from the males, ie myself, NOP and BF so I'm always glad to help if I can. I've found it actually allows me to get out of my own head, which is currently a maelstrom of R thought nasties, and the SSM board gives me hope that not everyone in the world is an a-hole and that there are some damned fine people out there.

Speaking of, it's been nice to follow all of the ladies comments here as I continue to be extremely focused on trying to understand a little better the fairer of our species.

And this is also why I won't be jumping to some other forums that are more situationally apropos to me. I find the pain contained therein is a painful reminder and counterproductive to my maintaining a balance somewhere between the peaks and valleys of my well being.

(Man, whose thread is this anyway? F'ing hijacker, Stigmata. Get over yourself already.)

Anyway, I like to help others in life as a general modus operandi. And I like helping others more than trying to figure my own sh^t out. So if you find any of my comments helpful in yours etc. then I'm glad to oblige with my takes. And don't be shy about calling me out if I'm way off base on anything. Thick-skinned here.

So let's get busy as we embark upon our new 300-level courses in "man building" together, shall we? And, lest you forget, I am sitting right beside you in these classes too. After all, this f'ing doormat, ended up on this site for a reason. LOL.


"...When I approached her in the past, it was through words, asking and even pleading for sex, always accepting a no or a maybe later, never pushing the issue. Two, I have always had this feeling that if I did push the issue, my W would not have just gone along with it."

--We've discussed this before. I am all for communication and verbals in an R but this hasn't done much for you thus far, has it? And the begging, pleading for sex? Blech! This is a knot we're going to have to unravel as it has been tightened over the course of your R. You revealed something very pertinent in this manner about your W's core belief system that I'm going to try and help us both understand. After all, my name itself swims in religiosity, chuckle, so who better?

It's ingrained in her that sex is naughty. Lust is shameful and the like. This is why you cannot, cannot use verbals to "ask" or get her "permission" for sex. Do you see what I mean? Doing this puts the control of the decision right into her lap, so to speak. Her FOO shame simply will not allow her to make that proactive decision of, "yes, baby, let's do it. Let's have some hot sex." Yes, Chrome, don't point out to me she'd never say that. I have an adequate handle on her processes.

What I'm saying is she will thwart or deny the decision to engage in sex every single time unless she gets to the point where she can get past her FOO hangups. (Cobra? I'm using FOO a lot here. Knock-knock?)

--And, yes. These are half-hearted because you're using verbals. What is she supposed to say? You're cornering her insecurity. Stop asking.

And stop thinking in advance what she will say to your approach. You're dreading she will say no to your pushing and you're killing it before giving her a chance to respond negatively. It's okay to push (I would prefer "lead"), it just can't feel to her like "pushing."

"...That doesn't mean she hasn't just gone along with it at times, I'm sure there are times she didn't want it but did it anyway to pleasure me. But I have just always had this gut feeling that me pressuring her into it by physically fondling her to get her excited would result in disaster. Maybe I'm wrong."


--Yes. They all do (go along with it sometimes halfheartedly). As GEL says, don't take perceived negatives so hard/personally.

And, yes, you are wrong. Your gut feeling is projecting wussyman insecurity. So as you think so shall it be. If you're showing her a pessimistic vibe her intuition is going to spot it every time. And, besides, since when does a woman saying, "not tonight, I have a headache," equate to "disaster"? Come on, Chrome, it ain't THAT bad. It's not like this is your first month in an R and you're worried about being rejected. She's an captive audience. You have her. She's not going anywhere. She's not in the mood? So be it. Confidence. "Hey, it's not me; that's her deal." Along with, "There's always another day."


There is a lot of uncertainty and doubt in my mind right now about whether my wife does have an inner hottie or not, or if it is just me and my interactions with her. I know that one of these days, I'm just going to have to take the plunge and find out, otherwise I'll just live the rest of my life wondering. But I'll admit, I'm scared that I will find out that she truly does not want sex at all levels of her being, and that would be a devestating thing to learn."

--Okay. This might get me in a lot of hot water but I'll say it anyway. I frankly don't believe in HD, LD, ND BS. Sorry, don't. Not in any long term R that started out with some real physical interactions/sparks anyway. And if someone had zero desire from the start? Then you knew what you were getting yourself into. These are labels for which I have no use. I prefer to see it as an imbalance between partners--one that ebbs and flows like a tide or is sidetracked by the complexities and stresses of life in general.

Your W is not an LD/ND IMO. I don't believe it. Not someone who can O from a deep kiss etc. (more on the kiss dynamic in a bit). You just haven't found her figurative sexual sweet spot yet. I'm not talking physical necessarily here either, but that is an important part as well.

I think you need to get out of your own head as far as sexual needs/desires go, Chrome old boy, and focus on gently coaxing out her own sexual desire. Like I said before, this is all about her--especially seeing how you feel she is damming up the physical expression in your R, which, in turn, is compounding other problems that may exist therein.

And I'll reiterate, I can guarantee she hasn't been dwelling on this singular aspect of your R a fraction of the time as you. Besides, her religious leanings will not allow her to dwell on sex anyways--these "shameful" behaviors and religious doctrines only instigate her to push them out of her head even faster, in fact.

This is why it is vital that you take control of the decision to lead the sexual R. No talking, begging, asking. Get out of your head and relegate your own selfish sexual desires to second place behind her buried desires for now. And you'd better believe she has them. We all do. Even priests and nuns, as much as that makes me cringe to say.

Pay attention to her. Watch for the reactions to touch, foreplay, etc. etc. I'll use myself as an example here. When I engage in sex I am completely outside my own head/thoughts as to how it's making me feel. I am totally focused on pleasing her. If I do something or hit a spot that gets a positive reaction I file it away into the memory banks. I never engage in the same touch etc. patterns, approaches, or the like in any encounter. Stimulus-response. She doesn't like something? Ooops, won't go there again. With practice and allowing yourself to be a little creative you will eventually find exactly what makes your W crazy or at least very satisfied. She literally has dozens of spots on her body that will trigger her hard-wired pleasure centers .

And once I find that combination and I know she will let go and enjoy only then do I then turn my attention on how I'm feeling. Frankly, getting someone else off really is what gets me off. More Stigmata TMI for ya.

This is why it is, again, so vital that you lead her. It takes the shame/culpability in making the "okay, let's have sex now" decision away from her. "Hey, this is my H's idea. I'm not a naughty dirty girl." Which, in turn, allows her to at least enjoy the pleasure since marital sex is condoned everywhere in The Bible. Exploring each other's bodies is part of God's gift to us and completely natural if done so with love for our partners.

So, if you must talk; and this may be necessary if she really resists after your assertive leading, you have to tell her something like:

"God gave you an incredibly beautiful body. And God gave us the ability to feel great pleasure as we explore each other's body. This is normal and natural. And my sexual desire for you is my way of showing appreciation for having such a beautiful and desireable W."

Anyway, not exactly these words maybe but something along these lines IMO. You see where I am going here. Coaxing. Fostering. Watering the seeds of desire etc. It will take time so you must have patience.

All of this is why I would avoid the "quickie." for now as you and Fran have been discussing. Maybe later down the road. Cart before the horse. Yes, her feelings of shame combined with the wham-bam-thank ya ma'am vibe of a quickie will only lead her to believe you're just interested in using her body to get your rocks off. After all, she Os from fondling along with kissing so that means to me she ascribes a deper connection to kissing/fondling. Opposite ends of the spectrum here.

Ah, perfect segue for my earlier mention of the kissing dynamic in your R. As I predicted way back, she IS continuously thinking about the A/OW as not enough time has passed for her to process it. It took me years to deal with the A/OM but, rest assured, what happened there was way worse than a kiss or two.

HOWEVER. And this is a big however. The fact that, as you stated, your W can O from a deep kiss etc. means that you might as well have gone ahead and engaged in IC etc. in many ways. She might be thinking your kissing caused these O feelings in the OW and that, my friend, is a very painful and intimate thought for her to swallow. Only way to rebuild her trust now is to start thinking about using WOA on her as you're kissing etc. And not all of your kisses have to be deep and passionate--exp. if she thinks you'll want more.

In the mornings or whatever, occasionally mix it up by grabbing her face with both hands, pulling her to you, dramatic and playful "Mmmmmmm...Smack!" to her lips, and a term of endearment or whatever is natural in this situation: "Love you, beautiful." Or, "Till we meet again, my love.". Something sincere that reinforces that you love kissing her etc.

Finally, in this kissing dynamic, it would be wise to occasionally reaffirm to her that she is an incredible kisser during the act and how lucky you are to have her. Best kisser. "No comparison." Be very careful not to get too specific. Just, "no comparison," or "Hands Down." then drop it.

Her subconscious will pick up the meaning (OW value can't compare to her) and allow her to get the subtle message without causing her to feel uncomfortable. But you should only do this very sparingly, maybe once or twice every dozens of kisses, as if you do it often/regularly it will lose it's meaning and start to appear contrived or phony.

"...a situation unfolded. She was unable to open a jar, so she said "come here you manly man and open this for me." I hopped up quickly before she could step out of the way, put my arms around her, reached past her and opened the jar while nuzzling her neck from behind. She seemed to enjoy that display, so I picked her movie monster style and started carrying her away making moaning monster sounds much to the delight of the twins. A little fun in the chrome household to help me forget my troubled heart. Later yesterday, when were on messenger, and I thanked her again for opening up to me and honestly validated her POV about "not being able to say no." I compared it to my self-esteem issues, in which I don't feel in control of myself and feel lots of pressure to do things (self-inflicted being the difference). She opened up again and said this time that "in my mind I want to start doing things the right way but every time I try to get started, I feel this internal resistance." And she said she feels like she needs an "attitude adjustment." I was stunned yet again. What I wanted to hear being said. I told her I would be willing to help her with her attitude adjustment as much or as little as she wanted. Next time we have an R convo, I plan on asking her what she wants to do about it."

--Stigmata stands up and applauds heartily. A tear at corner of his eye. A Shout of: "You Da Man!" Outstanding Chrome, you couldn't have reacted any better in this situation. Perfect.

Weren't you just saying you never get WOAs? "Manly man" way counts in my book. Fantastic. She's picking up the signals. "Attitude adjustment." Even better news. She's starting to change her entire outlook on intimacy and your R. Very good news.


"...Then, later that night we were watching TV together and I snuggled up to her, and no response from her. Finally, I just grabbed her hand and put it on me, and then she started caressing me. It reminded me again how far we have yet to go before this affection/intimacy thing feels comfortable to her."

--See? You're leading and asserting yourself. Taking her hand, placing it where you want. Reinforcing to her that physical contact is one of your important LLs.
You're doing great. Just watch the negative talk and taking rejection hard. She loves ya, man. It's not you, these issues she's dealing with are hers and, on some level, she is beginning to see that they're irrational and unjustified.

-Stigmata-