Thought I'd start a new thread since I've had a little hiatus from the BB. I've allowed myself free rein to do what I want, feel how I feel and not *do* much in terms of our R. It became such a burden trying to figure out what to do next and where we're going.. so, I just gave up for awhile. The break was good and enlightening! I feel stronger and more at peace than I have in months.
H had back surgery seven years ago. Was thinking about a vasectomy then blew a disk. Funny how life works, if not for his bad back we probably wouldnt have our precious boys now. After one of the tests before surgery he had to go to the emergency room for a blood patch. While I was waiting for him I read an article in a mag. It was written by a catholic priest. He was talking about marriage counseling and what makes a marriage work. He said that he counsels young couples before M to realize that marriage is an institution first, and that it's not meant to make the H and W happy all the time. He said that expecting continual happiness has led to the high D rate because we expect our needs to be met and aren't willing to work through the times when we're unhappy or not getting what we need. He went on to say that a good M can be measured by something other than personal happiness. It can bear fruit during times of dispair and disharmony too. That the real measure of a marriage is what it produces as a whole.. children, community involvement, personal growth, service to others, etc. I've never forgotten that article. I've never forgotten that he said the key to long term marital happiness is just staying with it. Or that the rewards we seek today sometimes don't come until our children are grown and we can look at each other and say - we did it and we did it well despite the obstacles we've faced. We sacrificed and it was worth it. He said it's often then that we find the soul mate and lover we ached for but couldnt find in the person we married.
I have a lot of other thoughts, but I'll save them for now and update instead.
H has found a new job and starts Monday! He'll never be working with ow again! From what he's said many times, I know he sees this as a chance for a new start. He's always said that we can't work things out until he's away from her and his efforts have been focused on getting that done. As a result, I've had months of disappointment waiting to see other changes. Maybe the new job will free up his energy for a new challenge. We went out of town Thurs-Fri and had a good time. It was preceeded by a huge argument about him continuing to write checks on my account and lie about it. He admitted that he has a problem with financial things and said that he needs to get help with that. He begged me to give him a chance to show me that he's willing to get help and change. I didnt respond much to that other than to say that I need to see changes and can't rely on what he says or promises.
On the way out of town he stopped to pick up some study material at his new job. He took me in with him.. something out of the ordinary for him. He also asked me if I'd go with him to resign from his current job. I haven decided on that yet. Then out of the blue he asked again if I'd be willing to go to counseling, even if it's not to work on our M, that we have some things we should work through and put to rest. I responded that he's asked that before, but has never found a C. He then dialed his cell and talked to a friend of his that's a MC. I didnt know that this friend has a PHD in MC. He left a message. His MF called back and left a message and H immediately called him back to talk about it. I was surprised. They agreed to set something up this week if I'm willing to go. H said he's had this guy in mind for weeks, but wasnt sure if I'd be willing to talk to him because he's a friend of H's. I still havent told him whether I'll go or not. We'll talk about it this weekend some time.
On the way home we started a discussion that was quickly turning into a common argument between us. It was about ow. We'll never see eye-to-eye on that subject. I have to ask myself if I want to be happy or if I want to be right in this case. It just torques me to no end that he still insists they were just friends. It's insulting really, and it's the biggest hurdle I'd have to get over I think. He says I also refuse to accept that most of what happened was a result of his struggle with depression. I feel like he wants to write everything off to depression and a tiny mistake he made sleeping with *a friend* when they had too much to drink. It makes it sound like I'm being unreasonable to feel the way I do about all that's happened. Yet another attempt to discount my feelings and convince me I need to just "let it go".
Anyway, that's where we are. I'm inching towards giving this another try. I know to do that I'm going to have to shelve a couple of issues, and I'm having a hard time doing that. I'm going to have to accept that H is a financial wreck right now and might be for quite awhile. I'll also have to accept his view of his R with ow and let it go. Those two things are huge obstacles to me wanting to continue with H. When I think about how irresponsible he is and all the ways he hurt me last summer I can't see a way to piece this back together and feel like it's the right/smart thing to do for me. When I think about our family and our children though, the sacrifice seems worth it. I'm gonna have to Byron Katie those issues a little and see if I can find the peace I need to move forward.
For the time being, I've decided to do a 180 on the financial issue. We've separated everything and it's working well in some ways. But.. H isnt budgeting his personal money well and is dipping into mine. Knowing that I'm going out on a limb here. I'm going to just start asking him if he needs a check or money and giving him the opportunity to be honest about his financial sitch instead of hiding it. It all comes out either way. It would be nice for it to come out honestly rather than to feel like he's constantly screwing with my bank account and lying to me. At least this way there's hopes of getting his spending into the budget rather than to be surprised by it. As long as he's living here and has access to my checks, I'm apparently gonna have to deal with it one way or another!
Hey Sheila. I see lots of baby steps with you, and it made me feel good to see all your thoughts on marriage. I think H is working on things and so are you (although you may not feel like you are). I'm hoping you are doing things just for Sheila too.
I think it is great that he got a new job, that he called his friend the C, and I hope he gets his $ things straight too. Seeing the C call and how worked with him, I was reminded of how I overcome the problem of not doing what I said I would/or should do. I do it the instant it comes up. Just like H, I do best if I say "You wanna do C?" and then pick up the phone right then and there and set it up. Don't ask me why (cause I don't know), but if it I had waited till Monday morning or whatever to do it, I would have forgotten.
Sheila: New to your thread, but a couple of suggestions. "Do I want to be happy or do I want to be right?" This is the key to success... you know the answer here...
Re: money - divide and conquer. View it like one of your children. They have an account, they can't get to yours. They need to meet their budget or they are out of cash... simple unless I'm missing something. This will allow H to "work on" his "problem" without affecting you.
Re: Counselor - what do you have to lose going to his friend. It either helps or doesn't, at least it's a step forward.
Oh, and our good times starts and end
Without dollar one to spend.
But how much, baby, do we really need
Re: money - divide and conquer. View it like one of your children. They have an account, they can't get to yours. They need to meet their budget or they are out of cash... simple unless I'm missing something. This will allow H to "work on" his "problem" without affecting you.
Just a little history.. we do have our finances separated and I thought that might solve the problem, but it hasnt! H *takes* my checks, signs my name and cashes them for cash at a local store here. The only avenues I havent tried are to have him arrested or to lock up my checks in a safe. I'm still hoping he'll stop doing this voluntarily.
The MC. You are right in a way that we have nothing to lose going to a friend, and we could gain alot in the end too. The only prob with this is whether or not my H will actually commit to work through our problems with a MC help. We've been through 8-9 weeks of counseling in the Summer/Fall and he just couldnt hold up his end of the deal. I stopped stating I'd go again once he had enough IC to convince me he is serious about changing some things. Even without that IC history, I might give this a go anyway... any help is welcome.. I just can't throw myself into it to the point of exhaustion like I did earlier in the process. Any work done on our R by me.. or efforts is gonna have to fit into my life and schedule now. I'll no longer be shelving everything to focus on making us better!
Do I want to be happy or do I want to be right?" This is the key to success... you know the answer here... This just can't be said enough can it?
BigAL I didnt miss your post earlier and I'm sorry I didnt reply. I was waiting to journal, but didnt know what to say! I hope you know that I appreciate your thoughs and support sooo much.. {{{BigAL}}}
Journalling:
H started his new job today. He mostly did a medical in-process and starts training Weds. He's still waiting on word from the job he really would like to have. They called today surprised he hadnt received a job offer by mail and said it should be here soon. Then he received a call from a job he interviewed for in Dec.. they gave that job to someone already working there, but another job that H is perfectly qualified for has come open and they want to discuss a salary with him if he's interested. Should know more about that tomm. Whatever happens, it sounds like he'll be back in his *career* before too long. After 20 months, that's bound to improve his outlook on life.
On the homefront - I've been reading a little of The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. My first reaction was "H has it freakin made!" reading letters from wives who won't cook or spent QT with their H's. Then I got down to finding something for me to chew on. Ended up with H giving me three things he's like me to do better. 1) Spend more QT with him. 2) Talk to him, not AT him when I have a problem and listen better when we discuss it 3) Keep loving and caring for him the way I always have. I asked for more on this one and basically, he wants me to be caring, compassionate, loving and encouraging like I was before the bomb dropped.
So there are some goals for me right out of H's mouth. I'm still faced with my reluctance to be a part of this R and keep trying. I've been trying to get down to my bare feelings about things and it's hard, but I think I can try to do better at what he's asked of me until I *know* to do something more or not.
He told me today that he talked to the MC again. He wants to meet with us Sunday evening. I didnt have to remind him.. that's a positive! I've decided to go and see where it takes us. I don't have a plan.. I"m basically a clean slate, so maybe that'll work in our favor? I know the last time we went to C, I had some notions of how I wanted things to go and was disappointed when my expectations weren't met. I'm anxious to see how being the one in the driver's seat influences H's actions. Maybe there'll be some pleasant surprises.
Other than that, we're getting along OK. I swing from being happy and at peace to looking at H and thinking "I don't even like this man!". Trying not to dwell on the emotions of that too much, but it bothers me. If I knew it was just a defense, I'd feel better, but I fear that I'm going to keep waking up and seeing a man that I don't see myself sharing a long future with
How do you know when things are just too far gone? I really try to feel more positive about us working this out, but can't quit hearing "I just don't feel the way I should feel for you anymore.. I haven't loved you in a couple of years". I'm afraid that and ow were mortal wounds
Hugs to you too. You need them more that I do. Just a thought, is anything permanent? Did the feelings you had for H say, oh, ten years ago, before bombs and D's and crap, seem permanent then?
I know it sucks to feel what you feel, and I don't discount it, but I wouldn't assume it's permanent either.
Think of this way, if the M ends and you go your separate ways, would your feelings change then? I think they would. They may also change with the alternative route.
Thinking about you and hoping for the best. And have a little fun for yourself, pleaassssee.
Hugs to you too. You need them more that I do. Thanks sweetie Although you're probably just trying to feel my rear..hehe..we'll call it a hug anyway!
Did the feelings you had for H say, oh, ten years ago, before bombs and D's and crap, seem permanent then? Good point. It's more of a lack of feeling that I'm dealing with right now, but still, things change don't they? He came in an hour ago being very chatty and loving. It bothers me that I don't feel an urge to respond to that lovingness I feel it comin' from him, but it just bounces off and I'm *trying* to go through the motions hoping the feelings will follow.. must be the snails! I view so much of what he does differently now. The pet names he uses .. he could just get rid of them for awhile.. I'm not at the pet name point with him. I'm at a friend point with him at the moment and considering the anger that's had to subside to get there, that's progress. I don't want to be snuggly cuddly.. it's uncomfortable. I want space, but I'm afraid space will lead to wanting more space. That's how we got here. I don't know how to address the issue with him other than to just let it go and not say anything and make my baby steps emotionally when it feels right. It irritates me that I don't feel the need to be close to him and I want to be close to him because I *should* if we're going to work this out. Feeling *flat* about anything is not my nature, so it's disturbing!
Other than that - I'm gonna have to post some fun stuff every once in awhile so you don't worry I have fun.. honestly. This is serious stuff, but I'm mostly happy every day in general. Spent thurs and fri away from the kids.. gambled a little, shopped some, ate good food.. was FUN and relaxing Wallpapered the DR all weekend.. that was WORK! My knee is bothering me a little from being up and down on it so much. H asked if I needed him to run me a hot bath or massage it. Now isnt that sweet? A MAJOR improvement from the summer. My knee totally gave out.. couldnt walk on it at all, I was here with three kids.. crutches in the attic and he didnt even offer to come help! Told me he'd call me back and check on me the next day Yeah.. I might just have to go sit in his lap awhile and not worry about what I'm feeling or not feeling. He deserves some closeness for his efforts.
Well I am glad you have fun. I promise I won't try to feel your rear (unless you want me to of course). I wish I knew the exact answer, but the "act as if" does seem to be a good idea. He is, I would say, reaching out to you. He senses your feelings and is hoping for a little glimmer. You don't HAVE to give him one any more than you HAVE to feel a certain way. You feel what you feel. Can't be helped.
But I still think sitting on his lap just because is a good idea. When you feel down, physical contact makes you feel better even if you want to resist it at first.
Quote: Thanks sweetie Although you're probably just trying to feel my rear..hehe..we'll call it a hug anyway!
that bigAl sure has a reputation!
Sheila, I started going thru this thread, picking out and pasting all your positive reasons for giving it another try, to work it out. It's all there, you know it, you feel it, you're just not sure that's what you WANT to feel. So! here we are, all your buddies, saying - go for it. H wants to try, he's willing to get help with MC and financial. I would ask him to do it in the other order. Didn't you say financial and ow were the two biggest obstacles? Take care of the one that is black and white. That should generate positives that will make it easier to deal with the next issue.
You have an advantage over me. You have a H that is talking to you, and taking steps to prove that - a new job, counseling, admitting his weaknesses. Listen to me, I will type this very slowly - YOU ARE VERY LUCKY!! Yes, you really are. (What I would give to have my H say "honey, I've decided to stay and work with you, work on our finances, quit keeping secrets, quit leading my double life. I made a mistake, and you're the best thing I have and don't want to lose you.")
Have you stepped back and thought about how life would be without H? when you wake up in the morning, when you go to bed, the weekends, the school functions for the kids, the weddings, the grandkids. Is it worth taking this time to help him work on himself and your marriage?
I do understand how you feel about wondering if you can love him again. I have wondered to, and see it elsewhere on these boards too. What happends when he comes back? I am so busy in the daily dilemnas of what to and what not to do, I haven't given enough thought to what happens when/if my H gets to where your H is. I got a taste of it this weekend, what happened to me? H and I were physically close for the first time in 2 months. I didn't get that high like I always have. It really looped me in my mind, what is wrong? I'm still not sure, but I know that we've cycled up and down so many times, that as much as I am ready to move forward, I still want it to be with him, because I know there is still a great wonderful guy buried in there that comes out once in a while, even when I am around.
Make sure you have plenty of you time, plenty of happy time, and H time. Don't let him smother you, and don't put him on eggshells.
Hang on Sheila, we're here for the Long Haul.
Live your life while you are still living. Riding the trail less traveled.
Thanks for the comments! Here is the link to my last thread, but I'll warn you, I'm a lengthy poster!
