I read your posts this morning. You are both so kind to say such nice things about me; I really appreciate the comfort. I am a little upset with myself for allowing H. "in" so much that he had the power to hurt me like that. I'd been doing very well at detaching but he seemed so eager to see me, and of course that's what I wanted all along.
This is the back step now- albeit a big one- that the WA's always perform after a period of closeness I did consider this. I figured he would retreat, but I didn't expect him to say the awful, final things that he did.
How many times have you tried to put more "force" into your words when trying to make a point, etc., about something you were not entirely sure of... Yes, I've done this, too. Maybe he was trying to convince himself, and not just me.
I talked to a friend last night and she feels that what is going on here is H. had enough space and time over the last month + to begin to miss me, and feel curious about the possibility of working things out. So he pursues by calling a lot over the last 3 days, and then comes over Mon. night. But once he got here and spent some time here, his guilt overshadowed anything he could feel for me other than a physical attraction, because he hasn't even lived here since right after I found out about the affair. Being in our home, being around me, reminds him of the lying and cheating he did right before he moved out, and he has not forgiven himself for all of this. It isn't enough that I can get beyond it; he can't. So he feels he doesn't love me that way anymore because his guilt is clouding it.
If that is true, I don't know what I could do or say to make things better for him. I have told him before that I do forgive him for what happened.
Needless to say, he did not call me back last night. I wasn't expecting him to.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
but I say give him more space and his “truth” may change as well.
I will try; I have nothing to lose. The thing is, I don't think he is going to feel differently for me unless he does spend more time getting to know me again, and slowly allow himself to feel comfortable here. But this would take time and work, and he has said he doesn't want this.
tell him you appreciate his honesty and how he shared his feelings with you. Try not to question or correct him or point out how this is hurting you Ok. If I get the chance to, I will somehow get this message across to him. I don't want him to believe that I don't think his feelings are important. I do care about his feelings and thoughts; I just find them hard to believe.
Thank you for sharing your story with me. I'm very sorry for what your H. has put you through, too. This is so unfair for all of us; we deserve love and happiness.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Hi, and thanks for taking the time to post your story. I benefit from reading how others have handled similar situations...and it sure helps knowing I'm not alone.
It stung to know I was unfairly scrutinized by him in his confused and alien state. Yes, I know this feeling. I didn't even know what was happening until it had already happened.
These wa's are so confused and looking for some kind of divine moment of truth that's just not realistic. I agree. I have no idea what kind of sign H. was expecting, but he didn't seem to find it so he's being firm with me about it being over.
There doesn't seem to be much I can do, except leave him alone right now, and see in time if he really is going to stand by his words. I do agree with him, it was uncomfortable off and on, when he was here the other night. But I'm wise enough to understand why: we have rarely spent any time with each other in months, and you can't just expect everything to feel familiar in a matter of hours. I think he honestly believes that is how it should be, and if it's not, he's taking that as justification for not coming back. I realize how much work it would take to build a new R. with him; he thinks it should magically happen instantaneously.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Hope- I wish i had some words that would comfort you right now, but i know that nothing will help...i'm sorry that you are hurting. I don't even know what to say, as it seems like everything has been said already. You do have to try to get back to being detached. Its interesting that as soon as you started to push him a little (by asking him to stay the other night when he went to leave), that he retreated again. You started the pursuit. Now, we may not view it as pursuit...you wanted to spend time with your H. But, he might have felt pressured. Not that you did anything wrong, but you have to remember that these WA's are in a whole different world with a different language. And anything that challenges their position, be it words or actions, is going to cause them to dig their heels in deeper, as they are trying to convince everyone, including themselves, that they have made the right decision. What i have learned throughout this whole thing is that no decision on their part is permanent...how can it be? They have no idea what they want. What i see is that your H was willing to explore his feelings for you...thats good. It means, IMHO, that he hasn't completely closed the door yet. As others have said, give him space. Do you think it is any coincidence that when you start getting mysterious (not answering calls, going out), he starts coming around. No, i think not.
I will check in with you later. Gotta to run to a meeting.
Thanks for posting and offering support today. I stayed home today, to rest and pull myself together. My eyes were so swollen when I woke up from crying so much. Not good.
Imdi, I do agree that my distancing and being a little mysterious prompted H. to be curious about me, and it led to him wanting to see how he felt with me again.
But now that he's had the chance and gotten his answer, I don't feel I can get him interested anymore...no matter how detached I behave. I'll still try to detach from this for my own mental health, but I'm not expecting the results that it brought before. It feels like he has closed the door and isn't going to look back this time.
I talked to my mom; she is very supportive, too. She said that none of this is about me, it's about H's problems with himself, his lack of self esteem and his issues about his past w/his family. She said, "We always hurt the ones we love" and that she thinks H. still loves me deep down inside, but he is incapable of showing it or even feeling it when he is feeling so miserable about himself. So, he ends up hurting the one person who has always been in his corner...me.
All this does is make me want to find the way to help H. stop hurting, because if HE could stop hurting, then maybe he'd stop hurting me. If there is still love there, then what can be done to fix all of this?
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Hey, Hope. I got caught up last night on your sitch and was disheartened to read about what happened -- not because I think you screwed up, or that your H is as finished as what he says he is, but because you're hurting from the exchange.
Everyone else has provided wonderful advice, especially about the need to emotionally detach yourself from H. That's all you can do -- for yourself, and for your M if it has a chance of surviving.
Though you've gotten really good advice already, and mine is not that different, I want to remind you of my personal experience with H, in the hopes that maybe it'll show you that what happened with you is certainly not the end of your M, especially if you don't want it to be.
When my H started coming back around in December, I realize it was due in part to me "dropping the rope." H could tell a difference and he realized that I wasn't going to chase him. I believe he came around just to see if I would still have him back. When he found out I would, remember what happened? Less than a week later, I caught him in bed with OW, and the progress he and I had made toward reconciliation flew right out the window.
Now that he's back home, I've asked him what was going through his mind when he started coming back home in December. What happened with H then seems to be similar to what's happening with your H now. We ML and everything during that time, and then he turned the switch off and went right back to OW.
My H has told me since he's been back home that he was still very confused at that point. He really didn't know what he wanted. He said being in the house made him feel really uncomfortable. And he admitted that he didn't know at that point if he loved me or not.
Here's what I'm trying to say in a nutshell: Your H is still very confused, so you can't attach to anything he says or does right now. But the fact that he let his guard down, then started freaking out, makes me not believe all the things he said during his freak-out session. If he's anything like my H, he said it because he got scared. He's not ready to re-commit just yet, and he's certainly not wanting to think of all the work it would take to fix what he has broken in your R. He's scared and confused, Hope. And that's a lot more promising than being apathetic.
I know you feel that the road has ended, but I wouldn't count your chickens just yet. I will tell you that your H obviously became more attracted to the elusive-you, and I think you should take note of that in a big way. In the coming weeks, as the emotional fire from what recently transpired between the two of you begins to burn down a little, pick yourself up and start all over. The *only* way you can win this, Hope, is if you "act as if" you're moving on with your life without H. Eventually, you won't have to act. It's going to happen -- with or without him. But if you want to try *everything* before giving up on your M, try to truly emotionally detach. And try to stay away from H in the meantime. It's gonna be hard, especially if he starts chasing you again.
I remember, when things started falling apart for me after those two good weeks in December, I started grasping and clawing and scratching in an attempt to keep control over what was happening with H. Everything I had worked for was slipping right between my fingers, and I thought that I could grasp it to keep it in my hands. It didn't work.
That's kinda what you did after the incident with your H the other day, and it's to be expected. I've always said that DBing is toughest during the times when you need to be doing it the most.
But *I* didn't screw up by scratching and clawing a little, and you didn't either. We're not superhuman and can't be expected to not be emotionally invested in what's going on.
Just hang in there, and don't beat yourself up, okay? You'll be back in the game before you know it. I know you're tired of it all, but you've got it in you to hang in there just a little while longer.
Honey, I was way behind, got caught up on your stich. Sorry about the emotional upheaval. but relax, so he is guilty, shouldn't he be? Time, time time.
Your post really helped me feel better today. Thank you for explaining to me what was going on with your H. I think it is SO helpful when one of these WAH's comes back and is able to share with their spouse what was going on, and in turn the spouse can share it with the rest of us LBS's.
My H has told me since he's been back home that he was still very confused at that point. He really didn't know what he wanted. He said being in the house made him feel really uncomfortable. And he admitted that he didn't know at that point if he loved me or not. Well, this is almost word-for-word what I heard on the phone last night; esp. the feeling uncomfortable part. Although my H. says he knows he does not love me in that way anymore, not that he's unsure.
He's not ready to re-commit just yet, and he's certainly not wanting to think of all the work it would take to fix what he has broken in your R. He's scared and confused, Hope. And that's a lot more promising than being apathetic. I'd like to believe he's still confused, but he surely didn't sound it on the phone. But I know I didn't imagine the closeness I felt when he hugged me while we were watching tv. There are some things you cannot fake. You are right, he does not want to think about (or do) the work that it would take emotionally for us to be together. I think perhaps he feels a lot of guilt when he is with me and it is something he would need to get past. Maybe he can't, I don't know. But see, when he does see me, it only takes a few hours before he wants to leave because he can't deal with how it makes him feel. He would have to go through it to get over it, but he never sticks it out long enough, if that makes any sense. And now, he's telling me he doesn't WANT to.
I will tell you that your H obviously became more attracted to the elusive-you, and I think you should take note of that in a big way I have. Today is my recovery day and boy did I need it. Tomorrow I will put on a smile and go back to work and try to forget that this even happened. And as for him calling, I don't expect that he will for a while, but if he does I am not going to answer.
I've always said that DBing is toughest during the times when you need to be doing it the most That is very true. I can hear my little inner voice telling me to DB during those very difficult moments, but I get too emotional and end up grasping, just like you said.
Just hang in there, and don't beat yourself up, okay? You'll be back in the game before you know it. I know you're tired of it all, but you've got it in you to hang in there just a little while longer I'll do my best. It's very difficult when I miss him so much, and he comes over like he did and I want so much to think maybe things are improving...and then they clearly don't; in fact they worsen.
A part of me wants to tell H. that I really want us to be friends, and that I don't think he can do that until he forgives himself for what has happened. To be honest we have not been conducting ourselves as friends; it's been more like a business relationship for the past 2 months. Then out of nowhere he expected to come home and be all in love with me after one stir fry dinner. That is completely unrealistic. I wish he could just slow things down and start being my friend again, and let things fall where they may in time.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
Although my H. says he knows he does not love me in that way anymore, not that he's unsure.
Oh, don't get me wrong. That's what my H had been saying *during* the fiasco. Only after he came back home did he explain what was *really* going through his mind. He would have *never* admitted to being confused at the time. Remember, my H had told me that he hated me and couldn't even stand to look at me. I would have said at that time that he seemed very sure of what he was saying. But look at him now...
I'd like to believe he's still confused, but he surely didn't sound it on the phone.
Again, he's not going to let you think he's confused. Maybe right now he doesn't even know he is. However ...
But I know I didn't imagine the closeness I felt when he hugged me while we were watching tv. There are some things you cannot fake.
Bingo. Actions speak louder than words. When H and I were intimate in December, I *knew* I felt something, even though it was all a little awkward, and I could tell H was uncomfortable. And he was uncomfortable and awkward, but he says now that he knew even then that his uncomfortableness was caused by his own guilt and anger at himself. Even with all that, though, I still felt "closeness" with him, just as you did with your H. And so your thoughts here:
I think perhaps he feels a lot of guilt when he is with me and it is something he would need to get past. Maybe he can't, I don't know. But see, when he does see me, it only takes a few hours before he wants to leave because he can't deal with how it makes him feel. He would have to go through it to get over it, but he never sticks it out long enough, if that makes any sense. And now, he's telling me he doesn't WANT to.
...seem to be right on the money. He can't deal effectively with his own guilt. It has nothing to do with you. What *you* have to do is stop letting his self-anger affect you and send you into a downward spiral. That's the hard part. As you know, the best thing you can do is back off and let him stew in his own guilt. I can promise you something: I would have *never* believed that my H felt as guilty as what he now says he did during the four months he was gone. He had me convinced that he couldn't stand me and that it didn't hurt his feelings one bit to feel that way. But you should hear his stories now. I can assure, if most WASs are like mine, things certainly aren't always as they appear with them.
And as for him calling, I don't expect that he will for a while, but if he does I am not going to answer.
Good idea. Build that strength up for a while. But once you feel enough time has gone by, pick up the phone and act like the past week never happened. That'll throw him for a loop. Be happy. You know the drill.
A part of me wants to tell H. that I really want us to be friends, and that I don't think he can do that until he forgives himself for what has happened.
Yes, but that would be you telling him that he has a problem, and he doesn't want to hear that. If you're going to become friends, it's just going to happen. If you mention that you *want* the two of you to be friends, it's going to push him away. Let things happen, instead of trying to make things happen. See for a while how that treats you. If it doesn't work, tweak the game plan a bit.
we have not been conducting ourselves as friends; it's been more like a business relationship for the past 2 months. Then out of nowhere he expected to come home and be all in love with me after one stir fry dinner. That is completely unrealistic.
No, he got the sense that you were getting over him, so he came over to make sure you're not. And it worked. Then, because the "excitement" of him thinking that you were going to be a chase for him went away, so he had to pull something out of his a$$ to tell you for why he came over and did that. Any WAS's first line is going to be: "I just wanted to see if 'it' was still there." That's what they *have* to say, because they don't want to tell you that they actually got scared for a minute that you were moving on with your life.
They're silly. And kinda transparent. Don't let him fool you. He has absolutely no plan. You do. That's what puts you at an advantage.
