.I know this is where NYS chimes in and says you're not detaching and if you did it wouldn't bother you that she is with OM...well it hurts and I guess I'm not detached and I guess I won't be until she is out of my life.
Vinces, I understand this. I too believe that my H must be out of my life before I will be able to *totally* detach. It's a very trying, very difficult, process. I can totally identify with your wanting to move on. You are not weak. You are human.
Spitfire
Always do right. This will gratify some people, and astonish the rest. Mark Twain
and I feel so weak for thinking about ending it, but I just want to move on ...not saying D for sure but
Yet, issuing an ultimatum or getting a divorce doesn't end anything really, nor does it have you move on. One truly ends it when they internally sufficiently disengage and have "fallen out of love" to a degree, have regained their center and are able to stand on their own confident feet again focussing on their own life and no longer obsessed with the WAS. It's not stating an ultimatum or filing a paper that accomplishes that.
The rollercoaster continues otherwise, even more bumpier because now having an issued an ultimatum adds its own particular consequences to the ride, filing for divorce and getting a divorce adds its own too. Not just when you do it, but in the time afterwards as well, in those times when your thoughts go back and forth thinking things like "Did I do the right thing?", "Should I have given it more time?", "What if...?"
I know this is where NYS chimes in and says you're not detaching and if you did it wouldn't bother you that she is with OM
Chime! It's not that it doesn't bother you, it's that you don't let it bother you, you process it differently instead. For example, instead of freaking out because you've found out that the two of them are going to Honolulu, you may say to yourself, "taking romantic trips together is something that couples, be they upright or not, do. It's to be expected. She's living her life, and that's what she chooses to do. I don't have to like it, I don't have to agree with it, but that's her choice, all the same. She's her own person, and it has nothing to do with me. There's nothing I can do about it, so I'm not going to give myself agita over this. Instead, let me think about me, not them, and what I want to do (not about the sitch but about activities concerning living your own life, putting the emphasis on you living your life)."
It's a path to "acceptance", which is where we need to end up or remain bitter, hurt. Reflect on how acceptance will help by lifting you out of the emotional turmoil, how that change will be for the better all around. Envision same time, next year, and ask, do I want to still be somewhere in the same emotional state then, or do I wish to have climbed out of it whole and stronger?
basically I told my W to either choose the OM, ruin her life and get out, OR stay with me and work it out! I blew up... told me to push her to be with the OM to find out what it would be like!
If I were of the opinion that my life with someone else would be better (even by virtue of the fact that by default it would be better if only because I'd no longer be in the relationship that felt was causing me pain), then that partner telling me to "go ahead and ruin your life" would only sound like sour grapes. How is it effective to vent like that?
"Pushing" someone out completely so that they can fully experience what they need to experience is not the best way to go about having them let the affair hit reality and see for themselves if the grass is greener. The aggressiveness and hostility of pushing will be remembered. The anger shown serves to justify the leaving partner's reasons for leaving.
Instead, you have the nonaggressive option of "backing off". When you back off and give space, the element of anger is no longer presented, so gone is the heaping of yet more fuel to the fire. The leaving spouse is free to experience the affair in daylight for all it's worth. In addition, by using a nonaggressive approach, one avoids creating a point of dissension for the WAS for them to battle against, IOW, one doesn't create yet something more for the WAS to use as part of their wall.
When you present an ultimatum, it presents an 'either or' choice, extremely limited choice with only two options, both of which imply a finality. Why put that into the WAS's mind... if only yesterday you really wished to 'save' the relationship? When you back off and give space, the WAS is still free to make choices, but finality is not implied. And you still have the ultimatum card to play down the line when and where it may work better in your favor. It may work better in your favor in time after some healing has been accomplished in both of you: the WAS's negative feelings may have dissipated, you may have provided consistent positives during that time that may have re-attracted the WAS favorably, the WAS may come out of the fog, see her grass wasn't necessarily greener, may have reflected on their part in the downfall of your relationship and realized that they were faulting you in error, have regrets... who knows? But then at that time, one would certainly have a better chance with ultimatums than at a time when all that's been happening is that the WAS doesn't want the relationship, wants to exit the relationship, is infatuated with someone else, thinks that they have an opportunity to experience a better life and wants to seize that opportunity, sees the primary relationship as all black, and has prepared herself for some time to be emotionally divorced from it, and sees the LBS as a person who spews and vents and rages and flip flops and pushes... all of which also seems needy and controlling and all in all, not a person one wishes to be in a relationship with.
When you issue an ultimatum, you must be at the point where you can accept however it comes down. If it does not come down in your favor, you need to be able to walk away. If you turn around after the decision has been rendered against you, you lose the ability to be equal in that relationship, for the WAS then sees you don't back up your words. You lose the ability also to be effective should you ever issue another ultimatum, the WAS will know that you don't mean it nor are able to back it up.
Being perfectly able to back it up means you establish equality in the relationship. You have equal power, IOW. The WAS does not have power over you, nor you her.
For when you surrender that power by not backing up the ultimatum, you effectively have given power over the relationship to the partner.
Back to choices, as a closing thought: many times, we see our options in an extremely limited view, typically, "I must do this or that". The reality is, there are several options very often. There is always the option to do nothing, for example. We "feel" we must do something at a certain moment, but that's just a feeling. For example, we may feel that "after considering tonight's events, I must say/do something about that tomorrow!" Why? Because we "feel" that a response is called for, we "feel" that we must do/say something to affect the circumstances in our favor. We're thinking with our emotions, however, not our heads.
These, BTW, are skills and views to be developed not just for this situation today, but useful in life and applicable to other situations as well, other relationships, be they employer/employee, parent/child, friend/friend, sibling/sibling, you/a stranger.
Really take a look at hat NY said. The quote he used was from me about "telling my W to be with the OM". Everything he said in his post is exactly how I have been feeling since it happened. I worked for months to get back with my W and it finally happened, and then after it started to fall apart again I was ready to give up. I forgot of the months of hard work and pain I endured, and then in one moment of emmotional weakness I throw it all away. I stopped taking the high road, and put all my efforts into myself, and the people I care about and love. I became selfish, and took the low road! I hurt now! Thanx NY for your wise words and brutal honesty. Please read NY's post, and learn from me. Tim
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
NYS, those times when your thoughts go back and forth thinking things like "Did I do the right thing?", "Should I have given it more time?",
I will always regret that it did not work out, but I will not ever think that I didn't do enough or give it enough time...only I know how much pain she has caused me and for how long I have been taking it.
Pushing" someone out completely so that they can fully experience what they need to experience is not the best way to go about having them let the affair hit reality and see for themselves if the grass is greener. The aggressiveness and hostility of pushing will be remembered. The anger shown serves to justify the leaving partner's reasons for leaving.
agreed...but I'm past the anger...I'm hurt that she could do this to me...but actually I knid of am over the hurt a little (maybe the meds)...When I give the ultimatum(for lack of better term)...actually...I don't want to call it that...It's an agreement that I would like to have with W that she nor I see other people while continuing MC...now if she refuses there will be consequesnces but she wont know that at the time as for it not to sound like a ultimatum. It is setting a boundry and limit as to what I can handle for myself...that is it. Not asking her to choose me or reconcile...but lets just see where this leads for 4 weeks of MC free from any distractions on either of our part.
It may work better in your favor in time after some healing has been accomplished in both of you: the WAS's negative feelings may have dissipated, you may have provided consistent positives during that time that may have re-attracted the WAS favorably, the WAS may come out of the fog,
I agree with this also...I think W is losing some of the anger...This is what gave me such great hope in prev MC... Do I think she knows for sure that the grass is not greener or that the fog is for sure lifted...NO...She's not that far...is it going to take 2 more weeks, 2 more months...who knows...but If I am going to start doing things for myself...This is what I need. I want her to tell me (after telling me and MC that OM is a non factor) that she does not want to stop seeing him...then I will make a decision...maybe I'm just talking big right now and come Wed night, I'll have some other favorable sign to give me hope and change my mind. We'll have to see but I'm not expecting anything.
When you issue an ultimatum, you must be at the point where you can accept however it comes down. If it does not come down in your favor, you need to be able to walk away.
I'm more worried that she will say that she WILL stop seeing OM...that means huge amount of work on my part to contribute to getting over the A...and oh by the way...can we say trust...I'm just supposed to trust that she is going to stop cold turkey...I've been on this BB long enough to see that that does not happen...In the movies maybe but not in real life...and with her not living at home and it not being "her time or her decision" to end the A...I know it is very unlikely even if she told me that she would.
Vince, You will never know if they can quit cold turkey. Mine couldn't and hasn't. I wanted off the rollercoaster the other nite, and I tried to push her out. Truthfully I am not readyto give up yet, and I want to renew my focus. The only problem is I made a big mistake that just accelerated the realationship with the OM. Just take a look at my thread, and you will see. You are still going to MC. Don't give up yet. How many addicts can quit cold turkey from their addiction. Not many. So keep working!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
I know...but at least you still have W around...not totally mind you, and actually maybe it's tougher having her around doing it in front of you...but, I speak to my W maybe once a week...it feels forced and obligatory on her part...I can feel the distance growing on her part and I just don't want to keep up the charade...does she think she is doing the MC for my benefit? You say "but she is going to MC"...yes and she has OM stay over the 2 hours after the great session... her actions are not one that should be going through the MC..she is not ready, I don't think...but we will see...I will not throw the baby out with the bathwater yet...
Tim, I don't know what I would hate more...losing contact with W as she has her A, not knowing when she's happy or sad about OM...or...being in your sitch...seeing it all fold in front of me...maybe I would have more ups and downs if the rollercoaster was in front of me every day. hang in there and I appreciate your feedback
I have experienced not having my W around, and now with my W carrying on with the OM under the same roof! I have kids that are only 2 and 4, so what I am living right now is worse on me, but easier for the kids right now. The benefit is I still can try to DB with her in the house, and that is why I am in such turmoil for wanting her out the other day. Stay with it. MC is better that what I had living a part with my W. Let go of what she is doing away from you, and look at what she is doing for you, and that is she is attending MC which is a positve!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
The problem is that I don't know if she is attending MC for us or because I told her the only way I would allow her to get own Apt (me take over 100% of bills when we are a two income household) was for her to commit to 5 MC sessions...I feel like she is not into it and that she is just putting up a charade for family/friends benefit and maybe a little for me...I think she is trying to disguise the reason for her leaving as not Om but all because of me and my controling nature...and that is just not fair...she knew who I was when she married me and I have not changed...now I'm not saying that I feel that I have no responsibility in this but to say that it was my fault that W had A...give me a break.
These meds are really cool...Instead of feeling p.o. as I write this, I finding it kinda humorous and silly. i think the true test of the meds will be next week when the anxiety starts to build around the MC appt on Wed.
Quote: I think she is trying to disguise the reason for her leaving as not Om but all because of me and my controling nature...and that is just not fair...
My W did the same and is doing it again. the thing is I am controling and did try to control her very much through our marriage. Now I have really identified it as an issue I have. I will always have that controling nature, but I need to use it as a positive for myself, and not a negative. The thing is your W wil do anything to justify her actions. It is not right, and once they realize they are as much to blame things will start to change. How many MC sessions have you already had? Is it worth a visit on your own to the MC to voice your goals and concerns, and just talk about yourself not your w?
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
We just have had one of the 5...the second one will be on Wed... Yes. I go to MC in indiv basis and i will see her on Mon...I told her that I want to do some role playing for our MC on wed as to how we are going to handle certain situations and to make sure that what I'm asking doesn't feel threating or an ultimatum...MC is for setting the boundry of not having OM in the picture while MC..MC thinks that because I have never asked her to stop she hasn't and W keeps telling MC (individually session) that Om is non factor...so MC belief is IF he is a non factor then it shouldn't be any big deal...of course I think W is lieing to both of us...but we'll see.
