The slow walk home 3

[frank_D]

I don't think you can begrudge her that. It's awful taxing emotionally to feel responsiable for another's happiness for that length of time. If she reconnects to that hurt, it's only to remind herself that she nevers wants to be back in that lonely place again.

I hope you understand that I don't begrudge her that. I want her to be happy. I have a lot of remorse for losing myself and not taking care of her.

I would say you are looking at more of a 6-12 month time frame- if your changes stick and you truly detach. You can get through it, but you have to be patient if you truly want to change and have a better R with W. Realize you are on her timetable now, not yours.

Since she has decided she WILL be divorced I have the hardest time thinking she will ever change her mind. I mean why would she want to go back once again even after 6 months to 1 year? Even after OM doesn't work out she will have the experience of knowing she can get 'good feelings' from someone other than me. Why would she come back? Why?

That makes me feel hurt and awful. Add in the 'affair', which she doesn't see as one but as a 'relationship' due to her 'divorcing' me, and I get totally beat emotionally.

As for the OM- From what you have described, it clearly will not last. He is just a symptom of her unhappiness with the past. Right now, anything probably looks better to her than what she went through with you.

Ok, the biggest problem I have is all his promises to move here, to do things she wants to do, that he is 'totally in love'. These things seem so sincere to me because I project my values onto them.

Once she gains more confidence with you, I am sure he will drop out of the picture, and, with more time, she will begin to believe in a R and a future with you in it.

But why would she believe in me again? She can just stay 'single' and never have to risk me being a 'problem' again.

She is not involved with OM to hurt you; realize just as much as this is "your" journey back into a healthy R, this is "her" journey to re-forming an identity for herself. She just can't be there for you right now, no matter how much you want her to be. If she gave up on her needs now, she would only resent you and become even more unhappy, and perhaps even leave, no matter the consequences.

I know this to be true but I have difficulty right now internalizing it.

Anyways, I hope I didn't come off to harsh. Just sounds like you need some firm words today instead some touchy-feely stuff...

I do need that immensely! I hope you feel free to be this way any time. And hearing your 'alcoholics wife' perspective was a real gift.

Thank you.

[StrongNSassy]

Anyways, I hope I didn't come off to harsh. Just sounds like you need some firm words today instead some touchy-feely stuff...

Okay...dammit who did I lend my box of tissue to...you got me good honey...damn...beautiful PF!!!

[petiteflower]

Even after OM doesn't work out she will have the experience of knowing she can get 'good feelings' from someone other than me. Why would she come back? Why?


Hopwfully, with time, she will realize she can be happy and independent on her own, with out being dependent on someone else for her happiness. She was dependent on you for her happiness... she is dependent on OM for her happiness. But at the same time, she is begining to do things that interest her, that make her happy. With time, she will probably realize it is up to her, and her alone, to make herself happy. Not you. Not OM. If she comes back, it will be b/c she knows she can maintain her independence, her new-found identity and while in a relationship with you. She will come back b/c she values her family, stability, a shared life together, etc.

Or, from another perspective: I know I could go out right now and "feed my ego" by getting involved with someone else. I know there are OM out there who can give me the same "feel good" feelings that my H gives me when he is sober. Will I do it? No. I see that would just be distracting me from focusing on taking care of myself right now, on finding those things that make me feel good about myself. Maybe with time I will begin to date if I feel H and I are not working out and I feel ready to move on with my life w/o him in it. If, after I were to do that, my H starts to demonstrate interest in salvaging our R, making healthy changes in himself. I would probably wait him out awhile, continue on with my life, see if H changes are genuine. In time, if I determined they were genuine changes, I know the pull of of family, shared history, lives built together would/will be very strong.... don't underestimate it.


That makes me feel hurt and awful. Add in the 'affair', which she doesn't see as one but as a 'relationship' due to her 'divorcing' me, and I get totally beat emotionally.


My H has said the same thing about continuing his A since the relevation. Says he told me its over between us, so he feels no guilt in continuing with the OW. It's not an A since we're not together, blah, blah, blah. It use to hurt me too, until I decided not to personalize it. I choose to look at his actions, instead of his words. He's still in the house, we still do things together as a family, we still have decent conversations alone. His interactions with OW are confined to fairly secretive phone calls at this point. Again, look at ACTIONS, ACTIONS, ACTIONS, not words.

Ok, the biggest problem I have is all his promises to move here, to do things she wants to do, that he is 'totally in love'. These things seem so sincere to me because I project my values onto them.


Again, here you have words, just words, and NO ACTIONS. And yes, you are projecting your values onto a man who clearly has very low values (getting involved with a married woman.....). The are only sincere if you value them. I don't know that you can say OM places much value on the promises he makes.


She can just stay 'single' and never have to risk me being a 'problem' again.


Sure, she can stay "single". That is her choice and you will have to prepare youself for that possibility. However, it is also quite possible that she will begin to realize the grass isn't always greener on the other side, the "problems" of being single; more financial instability (which eats into a lot of that "independence, lol!), less access to the kids, a lot of 'alone" downtime... and gee, with Frank making all these postive changes, turning back into the Frank she fell in love with... maybe the "problems" you represent no longer exist, or won't look so bad anymore.

Hope this helps. Glad you appreciate the insight.

PF

[Tim297181]

Frank and everyone who has contributed to his post over the last few days I truly have to thank. Frank your honesty and how you put your feeling into words allows me to feel not so alone.

[frank_D]

Well, W talked to the Lomi massage teachers she worked with in Hawaii about her career goals. Out of the blue they offered to lend their name to her pursuits by referring her to massage schools that often ask them to teach weekends, if she could get another guy they know to also work with her.

She was very excited about that and she knows this person and works well with him. That would of course make OM not able to be part of her business as they do not like him, and he isn't trained to teach. And getting trained is expensive. Boo Hoo.

I told her I was so proud of her and said that they must think she is very good to offer her this and she should take that as a complement. She did, and was even more proud of herself. I offered her a 'celebration hug' and she accepted. It was genuine too. Been a few weeks since I had that, it felt good. And it meant nothing.

As I spoke to her about all this I was 'happy but neutral'. I really didn't know WHAT was the best way to play it. I was amazed she let me into her space.

Then she went out grocery shopping and called me on her cell about 20 minutes later to tell me she spoke to the Spa she was trying to get the rental space from, to start up her own business. And she got the deal I suggested she ask for from them! She was all excited about that now and I told her I was very proud of her. I said I need to rub her head or something so I can get some of her luck to rub off on me and she said 'you have to rub the belly' and laughed.

She thanked me for telling her to negotiate a better deal and how to do it. Said she would never have thought of it on her own. For the most part, she was very 'polite' in her tone of voice. Not giggly excited like she used to be when she was still with me, but a more serious tone and keeping me at 'friend' status. Well, less than friend if you think about it. She was pushing me away a little after the excitement.

She must have called me first as they had called the house looking for her and I gave them her cell phone, then she called me in about 5 minutes after that. So I am privileged!

She talked about how was she going to come up with the money she would need for the first months rent and I listened but didn't offer any help. Gave her a suggestion on how to handle it if it was an issue. She sort of rambled on a bit and I told her again I was impressed and proud of her again because I knew she had it in her. She said something, I forgot what, but her tone of voice seemed like she was uncomfortable or getting annoyed. Maybe I was too proud and she thinks I shouldn't be. Maybe I was sounding like her Dad and it was bugging her. Dunno.

She came home a few minutes ago and started crying about how she was so happy that she was getting things she had been asking for. That she was seeing success and didn't think she would.

She was holding a plastic bag of grocerys in one hand while she was standing there crying and I went to give her a hug but she let her arms hang down. Oops, shouldn't have gotten into her space.

I told her that I was so happy she was finally doing this because I really wanted her to do this for years and now she is being a real business woman.

Well, she's on her way to the REAL hard work of a business. I wish she had done this when we were together. We could celebrate more without the uncomfortableness we are going through right now.

Of course, I was thinking about her calling OM to brag and how that might go. That's a thought that doesn't belong in my head.

And I thought about how she kept me at 'arms length' emotionally during these events. I feel bad, I would love to be jumping up and down with her and dancing around the house but she is still pushing me away. Yet another reason to detach - she won't even let me too close to celebrate her success with her. Sigh.

I'm glad for her, and of course scared too. I know she will probably ask me for some advice from time to time but I feel like I'm just a big brother or something. That's my problem though, not hers.

[Tim297181]

Frank you really handled yourself well. The amount of self control you showed, and you were truly there for as good friend!
Don't wory about the hug. Friends do give each other hugs, and it is her loss not to recognize it!
Keep it up!

[frank_D]

My friend brian called and we spoke. He pointed out that it was ME who made this possible. When she told me the idea she had no way to actually do it because she owes me about $1,600 for utilities and taxes, which she doesn't have. She had agreed to pay half the utilities because I pay the mortgage and all the big bills. She only makes $1,200 a month right now part time.

So to help her I told her I would expect to be paid the minimum amount she can pay for her share of that month.

So, without the house bills to worry about, she can now barely afford the office. And I told her she had 3 months to make the amont required to pay her share of the bills to me.

As I see it, she wasn't handed it on a platter, but she HAS to recognise that it was ME who gave her a place to stay, ME who removed the financial obstacle preventing her from doing this business and ME who will be there when she needs help. She will notice. And, I did the good and decent thing

[Tim297181]

I can't remeber where I read it but it has stuck in my mind. It went something like this:

"To truly be responsible and secure in your abilities as a person is being ableto serve others without any expectations of recognition or any favours to be owed in return"

I believe it was in a book about leadership that I once read.

Anyways my point is that I found when I started to do things for my W without any expectations or anything giving in return our R started to improve. I was always a score keeper in regards to "I did this for you and now what about ME". The balancing act at least in my situation was when do you draw the line, and start saying what about me. Is the other person abusing your good actions. I let the resentment creep back in, and I began to ask what about ME I have done so much for you, and this was the start of the down turn in the recouncilliation for us. Maybe I needed to do it, but I know I took it to far.

Frank I know you have set very clear boundaries with your W, and that took a tremendous amount of strength. It will only help you and your realationships down the road.

[Becca1975]

Frank, I was thinking the same thing as your friend Brian but couldn't put it into words. I tried last night and it sounded goofy. YOU are the one who made this possible. In the end, that will be what matters and I think you are 200% doing the correct thing here and not only that, you are bumping OM out of the picture altogether. Now if she is a smart businesswoman, she can save enough from this job to move her business to her own building in a year or two. She has an opportunity to do something really great and see her dreams come true!

[SvenTheRed]

Frank,

First, I changed my "screen name" - transformation of Erik_S (and to create some anonymity)....

I haven't posted over here in a while. I was just reading through your last couple days/week of posts. You're hanging in there. I felt like I was reading my sitch - W starting to build up her business, and suddenly its on me to "carry" her - I "owe" that to her....

Interesting. Status quo for me and my sitch - I have found that the AA'g and detaching late last week and early this week have helped me along. Been busy with work now that my head is clear.

Anyway, words of support from me to you.

JohnB99, C4H, and me had dinner last night as John was travelling to Boston from So Cal. Hang tough my friend.

Seems there are plenty of folks propping you up over here.

E