Hi All I found this interesting article in my latest National Geographic magazine. It gives a nice Bio-Psycho-Social explanation for long-term attachments, the power of love, romance, passion, etc. Here are some highlights: People who are "in love" have similar brain chemistry to those with obsessive-compulsive disorder. Translation: Love and mental illness may be difficult to tell apart No wonder people get goofy in love. Why people have A and so on. It feels good but makes you act stupid. But, alas, passionate love tends to fade over time. Usually within 2 to 4 years. The passion is there for evolutionary reasons, procreation. Once the baby gets into toddler age, the passion starts to fade between the parents. The mother is no longer nursing, and both people are now free to meet another mate and have more children. Very anthropological of course. I find it interesting though that the whole idea of M for a life-time is really not built into the human makeup. That is a cultural/social creation. No wonder it is sooo difficult to sustain. But passion and romantic love has been found to be panhuman, embedded in our brains, not just a Western creation. We tend to embrace it is the West but it is seen as dangerous in cultures like India. Physiologically, couples tend to go from the dopamine-drenched state of romantic love and move into the relative quiet of an oxytocin-induced attachment. Oxytocin is what helps create that feeling of attachement and bonding. (Must have been in short supply in H for a while there) Couples need to find a way to stimulate or sustain oxytocin production in each other. You can do this by massage. making love, some close physical contact. I like this next line: "That's good advice, but it's based on the assumption that you still want to have sex with that boring windbag of a husband. Should you fake it til you make it?" Lol The answer is yes. Assuming a fairly healthy R, if you have enough orgasms with your partner, you may become attached to him or her. You will stimulate oxytocin.
So the Just Do It approach seems to be backed up with some research. Now if we could all just get are partners to agree. right?
stop killing the mystery of love for me. Crap. Now I have nothing magical to live for anymore.....
This panhuman state is fought in many cultures. Pretty much any that has arranged type marriages. Some of them go to great links in blocking even semminly small things like scent. Since Romantic Love is quite like mental illness, its reasonable why they would think it dangerous to their societys moral fabric and viability in general, as the family block is the cornerstone for all civilizations. But now we are getting into the sociological implications of all failed civilization thru history. Wrong medium.
attraction isnt a choice, and neither is the loss of it except by the owners willingness/ability to change their perception. Love and marriage are.
MWD has come up with a myriad of tactics to entice, encourage, and most importantly self improve to help attraction along.
Im curioius. How many people here with chronic R problems use her coaching? I had one scheduled with Dr Harley the day of my LB tirade, that I had rescheduled because it was her B-day. I hadnt found this place yet or I probably would have gone with MWD instead. Everyone has seen the Nops success, and I believe he was one of the first on this board, and she worked with him directly. I dont understand why people wouldnt use a known marriage positive MC with a good track record. Must be too obvious.
"Everyone has seen the Nops success, and I believe he was one of the first on this board, and she worked with him directly. I dont understand why people wouldnt use a known marriage positive MC with a good track record. Must be too obvious."
VERY obvious to me, and an option for the future. I did go back and read through some of the NOP saga, and I agree with you that a fair amount of the NOPs success came from MWD's coaching (correct me if I am wrong in that interpretation NOP). My only consideration now is $$$. With 3 kids in diapers, money is on short supply. I am supposed to get a nice boost next summer with some workshops, so maybe if it seems good to do then ...
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Great article LFL. Might have to copy that and forward on to W. She is into anthropology, so she will like it if for no other reason than mental stimulation (something I want to get her back into that I think she has lost a bit with the young kids).
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
SO what happens when the chemical reaction is occurring with someone else and you are not getting your oxytocin fix at home?
I think we all know the answer to that one.
Is oxytocin like Methadone instead of Heroin - LOL
The fact is I am going through serious addiction right now with guy at work - nothing not even genuine EA has happened and it won't. He is leaving the company and the country in less than 2 weeks. I am like a love-sick teen. I guess I need my methadone fix.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I've read a few of your posts Fran and I have been resisting responding because I feel your anguish so keenly. I really empathize with you so much in how you feel. I have a feeling you are doing the right thing, that you are not letting yourself go down the dark path, but I felt I might add some words here, from a person who has gone down that path.
An EA is a deep dark pit with spikes at the bottom. It is covered well, and a nice haunch of tasty beef has been left suspended over it. When you reach out to get the "prize", and the covering breaks free from under you, then you experience that dual feeling of the pleasure of a powerful rush as you free-fall through the EA as well as the sure knowledge that something really bad is going to happen to you shortly. Then when you do hit, it is not only the most painful thing you've ever experienced, but then realization sinks in that you've got one helluva hole to climb out of, and some really sharp spikes to pull out of your body, if you want to survive.
I say these things to you just to warn you about how you WILL feel if you decide to do this. I hope you won't, as I would spare you the pain that I felt. Yes, I know you have pain right now, longings that are unmet, feelings that are not reciprocated, and it would feel SOOO good to get that from someone, especially that someone who seems to be able to give you that and so much more. But the aftermath is tough, REALLY tough.
As I said, it seems like you are resisting the urges, but I do worry about this "2 weeks before he is getting ready to leave" comment. Basically, this means you have two weeks to be as strong as you can be. I beg you to do so.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Thanks Chromo,
6 more days (work days) and he is gone. I guess I can hold out without doing anything crazy. Although I was so close today I could feel my heart pounding and butterflies in my stomach.
When he decided to resign, the feelings that had been bubbling under surged to the fore. Like the prize was being snatched away and I wanted to reach out and grab it. After all - I reckoned - what's to lose if he's leaving anyway? But I know what's to lose. It would be another really fat nail in the coffin of my M. There are two maybe three nails already but I guess with work I could maybe prise them out. Doing this would not be heading in the right direction even if it does seem like a minor detour. Like you say it is a bear trap.
thanks again
Fran
Last edited by haphazard; 01/19/0609:16 PM.
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
"6 more days (work days) and he is gone. I guess I can hold out without doing anything crazy. When he decided to resign, the feelings that had been bubbling under surged to the fore. Like the prize was being snatched away and I wanted to reach out and grab it."
Believe me I understand what you are going through. As OW and I do not live near each other, we only saw each other during the work events, which were two 2-week workshops. At then end of that second workshop, I was VERY vulnerable, anxious, etc. and that is when the one physical part of my EA occured (she was probably feeling the same way). So take it from me, I can guarantee you that if you get started, that last day before he leaves is going to be the longest day of your life (probably, I don't know what all has happened in your life) and you will be extremely vulnerable to going places that you may not even think are possible for you
"After all - I reckoned - what's to lose if he's leaving anyway. But I know what's to lose. It would be another really fat nail in the coffin of my M. There are two maybe three nails already but I guess with work I could maybe prise them out. Doing this would not be heading in the right direction even if it does seem like a minor detour. Like you say it is a bear trap."
You have a LOT to lose. I'm not sure what those other nails you mention are, but an A is a big, fat, crooked nail jammed all the way in past the head in a walnut board. And I'm not talking about just your marriage. I am talking about YOU. Do you really think that you would be satisfied having a 6-day fling? Do you really think distance is a barrier to all those chemicals people have been talking about recently. Let me assure you, it is not!
This is not a minor detour, you know it. This is a long term, screw with your mind and body, pain-fest. Let me add one more thing then I'll quit this rant. Let's say, you happen to go far enough in the EA that you fall "in love" with this man (i.e. get enough deposits in that love bank that it overwhelms you). Whatcha gonna do about it? Nothing, except hurt and hurt and hurt, whether it is from pining away for the man you "love" or arranging things in your mind so your SO can never live up to the dream you have for OM, thus KILLING any chance you have for your marriage to work.
I'm sorry if I am coming across strong here. You do seem to have gotten control of your feelings to the degree that they won't influence your actions. I admire your strength. I appreciate your willingness to express your feelings here. You are a strong enough woman Fran. You can resist this. You deserve better than to put yourself through it. You can get what you want out of life, but not this way.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
"Although I was so close today I could feel my heart pounding and butterflies in my stomach."
Oh gosh, your words bring back such memories and feelings for me. I can SOOO remember feeling such anxiety as each day passed, at each opportunity missed to see her, at each word that I said to her that wasn't perfect. The funny thing was how much it sucked at the time but I didn't realize it. Now don't get me wrong, OW and I did have some good, fun, happy times together. If I hadn't had an EA, those would have been some of the most pleasant memories for me. But in-between those times I was filled with so much heart-ache, and I couldn't even feel it I was blocking it out so hard.
Did you ever have a crush on someone who was "out of your league" while you were younger? Do you remember those feelings of unrequited longing? Nights where you couldn't sleep because you wanted them so bad, but ultimately knew you couldn't have them. That is how you will feel most of the time in an EA. It is weird, because at the same time, this person you have a crush on is responding, does seem available. But the unrequited feelings are the same.
Please spare yourself this Fran. I can hear in your words that you are close. Maybe I am projecting here too much and you really aren't that close to caving in. I know I am just some stranger, so I mean nothing to you in the grand scheme of things. But I tell you, if you do this, I will hurt for you out of empathy. That's just the kind of guy I am. I did the same thing with Lil when she had her epiphany. I will hurt for the pain I know you will feel. It will come, during the EA, and then 70 times 7 greater afterwards.
Sorry, I am really ranting here. For some reason hearing your words is bringing back a lot of stuff in my head. Sorry again. Be well.
"Recollect me darlin, raise me to your lips, two undernourished egos, four rotating hips"
Thanks Chromo, I've got tears in my eyes. You are doing me good though. I guess I'm just going to have to keep posting here til that last day is finally over. Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
