My old thread got locked, so I am starting a new one!
Well the sh!t hit the fan! She did not go to end things, instead she came home to tell me how much she loves him! I asked her why she said she was going to end things and didn't? She said "I did not say that I said this has to end (meaning the sitch") I hate to say it but I am devastated! So I told her that she needs to figure things out and if she loves him that much and is prepared to throw away everything we have she better go and find out! I took off my wedding ring (which I never have done since the seperation first started in April) and told her to give it back to me when she wants me back! She said that is probably a good idea (cold b!..tch) After that we got ready for bed and I could not believe what was going on yet again! So I followed her into the bedroom and we talked some more. Same stuff she does not want to hurt me, I always knew she had these feelings, I deserve better than this blah blah blah...and oh yeah she took back the necklace she got from him on his holiday! Long story short I basically told her that I will always be her friend, that I can't believe she is choosing an alcoholic/gambler/drug user over me, that I don't want my kids around him and we will need a serious talk about that, AND I hope when she fiqures out that I am worth fighting for that I hope I am still there for her! Then I went to sleep on the couch! The couch thing lasted about an hour after I said WTF am I doing! So i went back to our bed! So no sleep at all. Our daughter came in 2 or 3 times. Then about 4 am I started to feel srtong anxiety, and I started to have small panic attacks...well that peaked at about 5:30 am and I had to wake my wife up! Hard time breathing like a 1000 lbs on my chest! She really could careless, and then the kids woke up. Oh I forgot in the middle of the nite I put my ring back on (I just can't take it off yet) After the kids woke up I was still a mess and all 4 of us sat in my daughters bed for about a 1/2 hour. My W was all bubbly and playing with the kids like nothing was wrong! All I said is that "I want us to work this out and I am still willing to go to marriage councilling!" her response I know! Anyways she went back to bed and I took the kids to the day home! (Doormat again) I really have mixed feelings on what to do. Do I force her out so she can truly appreciate her "love" for this other guy or do I try and keep the family together and go cold? She said several times she regrets giving up her place so quickly, meaning she would be out if she still had her own place! She is probably planning her move out right now! I know the kids will slow her down a bit, but I really am torn if I want her out or not! This has been going on for months! This has to stop! I know NY said to detatch and get out of her vortex......She has to make her own decisions! How can someone so smart at one time become so ignorant! My goal is still to be married and keep my family together, yet it gets blurred with her actions! Do I really want her? Am I strong enough to develop the strength to get through this and at the end help her to see that divorce is not the answer?
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
You already know what I think about this but I will share a little more.
Quote: Am I strong enough to develop the strength to get through this and at the end help her to see that divorce is not the answer?
Well, I think the key to all this is in this last statement that I guess I missed the first time around. Divorce may be the answer to her. That's the part you are not accepting. You may indeed be able to do the work necessary to change yourself and the situation your presence in her life creates, but it's up to her to react to that on her own volition. Your strength will be most useful with your kids and you as you make your way forward, detached from the illusion that she will do any of the right things. It is a harsh thing to say, and one that should I dwell on it in my own stich, I will get emotional, but it is also true, I think. She has to work out her demons and from your description of this a$$hole, he is that for sure. Like I said in an email to you, her relationship with this guy serves to further her illusions about the world. The consequences of how he treats her, the reaction of your kids, the divorce that will start to loom closer over the horizon, your strength and resolve to be positive and her own ability to start to reconnect with reality will all contribute to whatever outcome is in the cards, or God's will, or fate, or whatever. You are NOT powerless here, just relatively powerless to control the outcome of this sitch as much as you want to. You know I am hurting right now almost as much as you are so maybe take my words with a grain of salt. Today is not a really good day, but there are bound to be better ones than this. Lastly, as usual, focus on the Haves, not the Have nots, or even soon to have nots.
How can someone so smart at one time become so ignorant! My goal is still to be married and keep my family together, yet it gets blurred with her actions! Do I really want her?
Has not a thing to do with smarts, Tim! It's all about how they're feeling, and that's one reason why it doesn't make sense.
Though your goals are notable, perhaps right now they're out of reach and therefore, unattainable. Besides, those goals you've stated need her participation in them to share those goals and to achieve them, and you can't count on that. Perhaps modifying those goals somewhat, and making them more specific, would help. Make them easier to attain. For example, think in more self focused terms: "My goal is to work on bettering our relationship, for my part. Here's how I'll accomplish that"... rather than the too vague "still be married".
Am I strong enough to develop the strength to get through this
You betcha! You know how I know? You're asking the question! Unless you flung yourself over a bridge when the bomb was first dropped, you've been surviving all the blows since... though it's been crippling and painful, you're still looking to "develop the strength to get through this", IOW, looking to hang in there and make it through. So, let me ask you... how much strength do you think you've already exhibited by virtue of the fact that you've already been through so much and are still here? Tim, you have already developed the strength! You just need to know how to apply it.
and at the end help her to see that divorce is not the answer?
that, my friend, is her journey. You, on your part, can help by demonstrating, through your behavioral improvements and interactions with her, that you are capable of betterment, and eventually, she may see that... hey... it's not Tim that was the problem. Have you seen my thread lately? My ex's fog seems to be lifting now that some time has passed and her negative feelings are dissipating, and what does she see? A guy she can love and has regrets about... the same guy she couldn't pack up and leave fast enough a year and a half ago (well, maybe not the "same", same guy )
Please anyone out there please feel free to comment on this question I have:
I really don't know how this is going to turn out! I really do need some advice though...My wife and I started to see the same therapist together in November. She has been seeing the therapist since our seperation. Now I want to see her on my own and I have an appointment today at 5pm. I saw her on Monday and I have yet to tell my W. The reason I am keeping this secret is I am sfraid she will feel ganged up on and will not attend her own therapy session tomorrow at 12 noon! Should I tell her I am going? Do I invite her? Do I keep it a secret?
For thos of you who don't know my sitch Me 34 W 35 Married 8 yrs together 14 yrs 2kids 2 and 4 yrs old seperated in April moved back in together in Nov to recouncil came back from mexico in Jan and now starting relationship with the OM again!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
If you were to keep it a "secret", and she found out, would she feel betrayed by you?
If you were to approach her and ask her first how she felt if you were to have IC with that same counselor, how do you think that may work?
Hope you don't mind my posting so much today... it's lousy out, raining, I'm stuck at the computer...
Yes she would say I betrayed her if she finds out on her own! I know from past experience that telling her would give her a reason to stop! She did this with a previous therapist that we started to see seperately. Once she felt that the therapist was asking to tough questions for her she stopped going and changed to the therapist we are both seeing now! I want to keep seeing the same therapist becasue she knows the entire sitch, and hopefully can help both of us through this with the both sides of the story.
I need to talk to someone! The message board is great but I think we all need someone to help us throught this tough time!
I have a real problem with what is going on with my W. The kids keep getting brough up as a reason for us to stay together! (only 2 and 4) They are such different children since we started to live together, and now since my W has not been around much, and the kids are picking up on our stress they are started to act like they did when we were seperated! Very clingy, and crying alot, asking for Mommy and Daddy all the time! Why is she oblivious to this! The OM she has even admitted would be a horrible father, and if I was seeing a similar person she would not want her around our kids! Has she lost her mind? Wake up!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Yes she would say I betrayed her if she finds out on her own!
I know from past experience that telling her would give her a reason to stop!
I want to keep seeing the same therapist because she knows the entire sitch, and hopefully can help both of us through this with the both sides of the story.
I'd tend to agree with your viewpoint about the C being more effective knowing both of you. And I see you feel between a rock and a hard place with either not informing your W or informing her, so I'll ask another question: What precludes you from discussing the reasonable viability with her of both of you seeing the same C, especially considering that doing so will enhance the C's effectiveness with each of you so that you both benefit no matter how this turns out?
I have a real problem with what is going on with my W.... Has she lost her mind? Wake up!
She may or may never "wake up", so the question really becomes, what are you going to do, not her... you!
NY we already have talked about seeing the same therapist seperately, and she was not to warm to it! When we did attend together she felt "ganged" up on. The reason for that was she was down playing the seriousness of the OM drinking and gambling problems, and was not telling the therapist the truth in how she was reacting to him! I would help fill in the balnks, and give the whole truth. This she said was like being ganged up on! She thinks I will be able to influence the therapist to my side and she won't get her views out. AS you can tell my W is a little insecure!
I decided I am going to see the therapist in about 30 min on my own, and I am not telling my W until I see what comes from her session (if she still goes)
The question is what am I going to do?
That is real tough. I believe I need to follow through with my comments last nite and let her find out how "great" the OM is! The 180 for me is to be friendly, and be caring and that is it! No more loving touches, or being helpful! She has already started that herself! The term used is going a little "dark" which is the opposite of how I have been around her! I also need to be stronger in front of my kids! I literally want to cry every time I think of what damage this has had on them already, and how this could all happen again!
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
NY we already have talked about seeing the same therapist separately, and she was not to warm to it! When we did attend together she felt "ganged" up on. The reason for that was she was down playing the seriousness of the OM drinking and gambling problems, and was not telling the therapist the truth in how she was reacting to him! I would help fill in the blanks, and give the whole truth. This she said was like being ganged up on! She thinks I will be able to influence the therapist to my side and she won't get her views out. AS you can tell my W is a little insecure!
I don't know if it's insecurity on her part, Tim, but that's not so critical here. The point here is that, if you've discussed the viability of both attending the same C and how it would benefit you both, and she doesn't accept that idea, it's telling you something about who you're "working" with. She doesn't really wish to 'work" with you on this. Therefore, this is her problem, all you can do is take care of your problems. If you're dealing with someone unreasonable, it's a waste of effort.
You might try asking her what she then would suggest as a win-win solution. Ask her, "If you were me, what would you suggest that would work for us both?" Try that.
If she then suggests something that wouldn't work for you, ask her to explain how it benefits you.
IOW, you're getting her then to think in terms of being in your shoes, not just hers. If she can't, or stalls or says, "I don't want to talk about it any more"... you know that she's not earnest, and that will tell you something.
She did not go to end things, instead she came home to tell me how much she loves him! I asked her why she said she was going to end things and didn't? She said "I did not say that I said this has to end (meaning the sitch") I hate to say it but I am devastated!
Oh, Tim. I so understand your feelings today. This is very close to what happened to me in December. My WAH had a fight with o.w., and broken it off. I thought he was coming back. A few days later, he called me to say he was "going to talk to her". The next day, when I spoke to him, I got the same thing you are hearing, that he loves her, etc. He told me he was devestated when he'd tried to end it with her. Tim, there is nothing you can do but to let her go figure this out. I know that is what everyone else will tell you, too. Sorry to come off like a repeat of everyone else, but it IS the truth. I spent days hitting bottom after this happened to me, but I realized H. didn't care, so I'd better start caring about myself. You have to do the same thing, plus you have the children to take care of. They really need you right now, as your wife has plenty of other things on her mind. Please stay strong. Keep posting. I'm so sorry for all you're going through right now.
Most of us really marry only once. First love endures, even unto our dying day. And we never really divorce.
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