I know she is probably trying to spare me, but is that good or bad?
I'd say neither good nor bad, as maybe she did have a miserable time, or maybe she does want to spare you, and we don't know which. But if she *did* have a miserable time and *is* telling you so, what's good about it is that she feels she can open up and confide in you. That's good for bonding purposes. Just offer a sympathetic ear and validation, don't say anything back that may be taken as you trying to convince her that OM's not good for her, as it can look like you're trying to manipulate her, and then she may start clamming up instead of opening up.
Also, she still calls me sweetie and honey all the time, whenever she addresses me actually. Does that mean anything?... It is habitual for both of us to use pet names, but I remember reading somewhere that pet names go out the window sometimes (or more) when these things happen. Comments?
Maybe it's still habitual; maybe it's that deep down she still has some feelings for you; maybe it's just the way she talks. My ex still calls me "hun" and "sweetie" sometimes, I don't to her. I don't try to read anything into it.
you may as well call me Tim (sorry man, and many of you do anyway)
OK, if you insist. I was going to call you "sweetie", though.
TMU this is Tim or am I TMU...... the guessing game is what drives you crazy and drives me crazy! I believe that is why we can't detatch is because we are trying to figure every little action out if it is for the good or the bad! Trust me I am searching for the good as hard as anybody! We just have to take their actions for what it is. I have no answers to this or if my advice is worth the keyboard I am typing on.
Tim
my story http://www.divorcebusting.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1049617&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1
Nice, NYS. Thank you for that. I have reacted only be validating her and telling her with all sincerity that I was sorry she did not have a good time. I never take it past there. As for her feelings, she has never said she didn't have feelings for me anymore. She claims to not know what she wants. I think the hug last night was a little sign that she may still care a bit. I don't know. I am going to keep on keepin on and try not to think too much about what she calls me or hugs she may be giving me. Until the OM is out and she is back for real, I won't believe anything I feel, and less of what I hear...
My C session was AWSOME! C decided, after much protesting from me (I wanted to stop), to stop talking about my R with me. She is frustrated at the whole DB process even though she doesn't know what it is. She thinks it sounds insane to let my W just go on with this but she agreed with me (or just said she did to move things on) when I finally said two of the main principals I am employing are detachment and improving myself. We finally were talking about the same thing and made great progress! She did some kind of hypno-thing with me that was really cool. Kinda too Freudian for me but I am going to have to ease up on that because I feel really good. It was something about getting touch with the inner child or something. I sounded silly, but actually it was really good. I don't know exactly what she did, but at least for a few hours, I have been really good.
On another note, my W, as I started to realize she would as the day wore on and since she did not see him today, went to a "movie" with "herself" again. Oh well. I did the best I have ever done as she left and she gave me an extended hug with a sweet little noise at the end. Oh, last night I told her when she called me on her way home, that I could now blow out the candle...so she asked, what candle? I said I told the kids that I lit a candle when mommy was out to keep her safe. She said "awwww". It could have been manipulative but it didn't come off that way. SO, tonight as she was leaving, I lit the candle and she said "you don't have to do that. I am just going to the movies, it's not like I have a suitcase packed in my trunk" with a laugh! She actually joked about it. So I said "yes, but you never know what kind of evil guys might be out there ready to do you harm." with a big grin. She took it well. We both laughed.
So, I am ok now. I have NO freaking idea if it will last, but WTH, it's good right now. The C also suggested that I more formally invite my W to C. I may do that, but not tonight.
I am going to try to get through things and see what happens with NO R talk tonight. That is unless she comes home and tells me we are D'ing!
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Ok, my night was really positive, sort of. My W went to a movie, but got home really early. She went to see a different movie and it started earlier. She didn't call on the way home, which is unusual but I didn't really question it. After she was home a few minutes, I went up to her and gave her a hug. Same as two nights ago, she squeezed. I am still not reading into this. I think it is guilt, but I don't know. I am not going to initiate any more for awhile. So she came in, and we proceeded to talk about the kids and how we both felt that they needed more quality time from each of us. This is significant because my W has not been doing that much at all. She buys them things all the time instead of actually spending time with them. We had lots of eye contact, which is rare for me (big area to work on), and tons of smiles and laughter. I also made sure to listen a lot and try not to interrupt much. It was a good talk and I went upstairs after about a 1/2 hour feeling ok. She still came to bed really late after saying how tired she was and how she wanted to go to bed early. I'm think she may have talked to him even after the movie (which I'm not entirely sure she went to with him...denial...I know) but no matter. That was about it. I do not take anything from it. It was truly normal life from a time when we used to talk, laugh and "be together." In the middle of the night she asked me to rub her back. It was nice but then in the morning, when I was a little too close for comfort, she pulled away. It was probably an unconscious reaction but it still stung a bit. The real news I guess is that while my new found sense of self wore off a bit (no illusions that one session can cure that), I did wake up, look at my beautiful sleeping wife and not cry for the first time since this happened. I think that is a step. Like I said, I know better than to believe any of this. It's not that I explicitly DON'T believe it, it's just that I don't want to build any expectations.
Don't really have any advice for you. Your doing a great job and hanging in there well.
Just a few questions though to consider:
1. Have you concretely identified and been doing enough to meet your wife's emotional needs lately??
2. Have you been undertaking anything concrete to detach and taking enough time for your own activities??
3. Is the balance of time spent with the kids and on private activities relatively equal for both of you?? You don't want to end up in a situation where you are always looking after the kids while she gets to go out and have fun.
Thank you for the kind words and questions. I will try to answer them best I can:
Quote: 1. Have you concretely identified and been doing enough to meet your wife's emotional needs lately??
I think so. I read the 5 Love Languages and I am still having trouble identifying my wife's language. I am, however, doing much better at really listening to her, making eye contact (I used to actually walk away when she talked. Can't imagine why that bothered her) and validating her instead of offering her my opinion or solution to the problem. Last night's conversation was a great success on all those fronts, and for the first time in a LONG time, I really felt connected to her through words. Don't worry, I am still detaching, just really trying to work on my communication skills.
Quote: 2. Have you been undertaking anything concrete to detach and taking enough time for your own activities??
As I have said, I have plenty of activities and work that is really play that I continue to do. What is different is that I no longer downplay it. In the past I would actually make myself not enjoy things out of guilt that my W was at home, not having a life. Now I am embracing that which makes me happy and if I have a great time, and she asks, I tell her. It's not in the telling that's important, it's in the experience. I can't lie. I still feel down most of the time and I have trouble enjoying a lot, but I am making the effort.
Quote: 3. Is the balance of time spent with the kids and on private activities relatively equal for both of you?? You don't want to end up in a situation where you are always looking after the kids while she gets to go out and have fun.
Yes. There has been relatively no change (well, from the past several months) in the time we spend with the kids, either apart or together. In the more distant past the tables were WAY in my favor in the respect that I was going 2-3-4 nights a week and she had the kids a lot of afternoons and nights alone. I have made an effort to actually scale back what I am doing outside the home so that the balance is there, but still to more actively do things that really make me happy. Does that make sense? It is one of the things I have decided to do based on the dynamics of my sitch. I really related to Frank in his thread when he said that sometimes detaching can be perceived as a huge "more of the same" from his W because of all the time in the past he was not available for her. One of my 180's is to be available more often. It is a tricky act because I am also trying to detach so being available really just means for the kids and maybe some things that need doing around the house.
Quote: I really related to Frank in his thread when he said that sometimes detaching can be perceived as a huge "more of the same" from his W because of all the time in the past he was not available for her.
To me "detaching" doesn't necessarily mean pulling away from your wife. To me it means doing more activities for yourself and becoming self-dependent.
Perhaps you could detach by going more to the gym and attaining your ideal figure, planning activities that you always wanted to do with the kids, etc. You can ask your wife if she would like to part in the activities you plan, but make sure she knows that your going to do them with or without her. Your wife met the OM in the gym, maybe this would fulfill her emotional need for a physically attractive spouse.
You can also detach by taking care of the housework and showing your wife that you are more than able to take up the slack caused by her extra-curricular activities and fend for yourself and the kids.
Detaching is really all about becoming the man you know you can be and building up the life you always wanted. Hopefully your wife will want to take part in this life by your side, but if not you will still walk away a better man than you ever were.
Quote: Perhaps you could detach by going more to the gym and attaining your ideal figure, planning activities that you always wanted to do with the kids, etc. You can ask your wife if she would like to part in the activities you plan, but make sure she knows that your going to do them with or without her. Your wife met the OM in the gym, maybe this would fulfill her emotional need for a physically attractive spouse.
You are spot on! Funny, like so many others, I omit things from my posts, mainly by accident. I am working out more now. If not a the gym, at home. I know for years, maybe our whole marriage, she's been slightly embarrassed by my physical appearance. I am good looking (so they say) but it's my body that has slipped for a long time now. Well, those days are OVER. I lost almost 20 pounds and am working on building muscle. BTW, the OM, from the very brief and long distance look I got at him, is VERY fit, almost looks like a body builder. So, yes, I think that's a very direct message to me. I am also doing much more with the kids, without her planning it. I do ask her to go, but if she doesn't, then oh well.
Quote: You can also detach by taking care of the housework and showing your wife that you are more than able to take up the slack caused by her extra-curricular activities and fend for yourself and the kids.
This is also VERY important to me. All my life I have been somewhat of a slob (as far as house cleaning goes, not personal hygiene). I clean for her, but never for me. I am to the point now where I am recognizing the need for cleanliness in my life and so I really want to improve in this area. Even before the sitch, I was starting to come around to this!
Quote: Detaching is really all about becoming the man you know you can be and building up the life you always wanted. Hopefully your wife will want to take part in this life by your side, but if not you will still walk away a better man than you ever were.
Amen to that. I am there today. What I mean is that I am starting to understand what being MY man means to me. I am realizing that I have never taken time to figure out what I want in my life. I am now starting down that road but since I have never been here before, it's dark and winding.
I really related to Frank in his thread when he said that sometimes detaching can be perceived as a huge "more of the same" from his W because of all the time in the past he was not available for her.
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To me "detaching" doesn't necessarily mean pulling away from your wife. To me it means doing more activities for yourself and becoming self-dependent.
"Detaching" is really about "disengaging" from the emotional triggers that one previously has reacted to. It's about letting go of those reactions, it's about realizing that one does not control outcomes nor other people either.
As an example, recently, a buddy of mine told me he and his wife have decided to move from NY to Boston this summer. My initial thought was "Geez! Oh! I'm going to miss you" but I instantly realized I was thinking selfishly somewhat in that thought, and wasn't thinking through their point of view and supporting them, and a split second later, my mouth was saying, "That's great! Boston's a fun town! Wow, I'm really happy for you! That's so cool. Hey and now I have a place to visit when I go there!" He and his wife's reaction to all that was big smiles and happiness as they went on to relate how ecstatic they are about the prospect.
But I'm emotionally detached from him and his wife. Now, consider if that was someone I wasn't detached from. My mouth might've said: "OMG! I can't believe it! Why do you have to move so far away? Why all of a sudden? I'm going to miss you! I can't believe you're doing this! What's going to happen to our friendship? Are you sure you want to make this move?"
"Detaching" is also *not* about distancing one's self. I see lots of folks confuse the two. I read where some get themselves "detached" by becoming physically absent from their WAS, yet detaching is something that's done in your head and does not require being apart from the other person, rather, it's something you do with the other person present, and while the other person may even be pressing your buttons.
In a way, it's a manner of "unconditional love", one can be fully present, available, supportive and loving - detaching just lets go of emotional triggers that stem from other underlying issues; "control" or other insecurities, for example.
Certainly, one of the facets of working on detachment is to not be centered so around another person or situation, and that's one of the reasons GAL is key.
Quote: In a way, it's a manner of "unconditional love", one can be fully present, available, supportive and loving - detaching just lets go of emotional triggers that stem from other underlying issues; "control" or other insecurities, for example.
Another day at work living on the board....
NYS, wow, once again you come through. I had read things like that but the way you put it makes so much sense. That is exactly what I did last night; I didn't let the same old triggers make me feel or do something. They just didn't affect me. It was really nice. I was still there for her but I DID NOT react to her going out or not calling. I had my own things I was doing. I was a little confused and thought I maybe did the wrong thing by talking for so long. I now realize that it was me understanding that now that I was detached, at least for the night, that it was safe to be back around her like that because I could not, would not, fall prey to the same pitfalls. Very liberating and I hope long-lasting. Thank you again.
