Building a Mystery...

[hopefloats7]

On p. 9 in my last thread, so time to open a new one. Chose the title because I love the song, and it made me think of H. when I heard it yesterday.

I just posted my "letter" on the WAS thread here. It felt good to vent, even though H. will never read it.

Spoke to my wonderful brother today. He's lining up single male friends [that first pass his inspection, mind you] to attend his wedding this summer. I'm in the wedding party, and plan to shop for my dress soon. Brother wants me to be happy, and reassures me that things are going to be fine, in fact, better. Getting through this wedding will be tough for me as H. was supposed to be the best man, and as things look right now, I may be in the middle of a D. by then. Another test, God? Haven't I passed enough of them yet?

Running out for a bit; just wanted to get this new thread going. I hope everyone is having a good long weekend. Hugs to all my friends here, whom I really value. You've all been so helpful to me. I mean it.
Hope

Link to the Tenacity thread...

[kismet]

Woo Hoo ~ am I first? Sorry Hope for all that has happened to you of late. I have to hand it to you. You seem to be handling it well.

I agree the wedding will be tough. But your family will be there to support you, so you'll get through. And your brother is right ~ you're going to be better than fine!

[Rollercoasterider]

Hope,

I want to respond to your post from page five, but also am wanting to read through to catch up. So I'm going to occasionally respond to some things throughout the other posts as I am reading...otherwise I'd forget what I wanted to respond too! I may also touch on things others are saying to you since I'm often responding before I get to their advice.

Sorry it’s taken me so long…I’ve been on the phone with a DBer and a midlifere between writing…and ‘I habve a code,’ so I took a hot bath.

[he said] that [dating] would help me feel better about my problems.
So, is this what he’s doing???

Don't take this wrong hope, but DUH! They also want us to date because it will alleviate their own guilt and give them another excuse to get out of the relationship. I NEVER waivered on this...I have always told Sweetheart that I would NEVER [and I really stressed that word] date someone else.

I do not buy his, “I’m happier now, and getting happier by the day.”

Good. Keep not buying it. He may get to a point where he actually believes he's happier and seems it...but even then don't buy it. It's the 'drug high.'

He said he would not be irresponsible when it came to the finances and the bills. Yet, if he really wants to move on and start his life over, then he eventually will want the money he is to gain from the sale of our home. I have to find out from him at which point he wishes to make this move.

Drop this for now and wait for hi to bring it up...you don't want to risk him moving forward with more separation and sales because he feels you are pushing. MLCers often talk about things and don't follow through...just drop it.

He never gave things a try, post-bomb. I thought we deserved that much, after so many years together.

Of course he didn't. Remember in his mind that he'd been trying for five years...for him the Bomb Drop was his final answer...that's what they do when they are giving up and won't try anymore.

There is someone that could be quite interesting to get to know; he's an actor, he's been on a soap opera and has done a lot of plays, commercials, etc. I've talked to him a couple of times; he's a little older than me but seems very nice. It might be nice to become friends with him, I don't know. But I won't do anything to disrespect my marriage---even though it's fairly non-existent right now.

STAY AWAY This is how affairs begin...friendships and innocence. You may not mean for anything to get started, so don't get a friendship that you intend will be platonic started. For now, get female friends.

Okay, I’ve caught up a bit now and will look at my notes to that long post from page 5.

darn it, I'm done DB'ing. It isn't working with him.

A lot of DBers get frustrated with the slow or APPARENT lack of progress/results. DB’ing does NOT work on YOUR timeline. The initial work will be interior and thus you will not usually see progress. Sometimes they just file what we say and how we react away and quietly keep it in a locked up memory for later…it’s what brings them back.

He must have said "I'm not coming back" at least 40 times. I lost count. He admitted he had done a tremendous amount of thinking about it, but he has made his decision. He's not coming back. Period. He wants to move on with his life. I told him that he never gave us a chance to try; he said "I've been trying for 5 years." HUH? I told him that he never came to me in those years and said he was unhappy; he should have talked to me about it

Sweetheart said the same thing about trying for years before the bomb drop. So here’s what I told him…on a number of occasions since he kept saying it. ‘Trying starts when you tell your spouse there’s a problem.’ I was always firm with the statement…i.e. it was a conversation ender, he knew his excuse wasn’t going to work. I would cut him off and let him know I was NOT going to listen to his lame excuses. I listened to what he said…but called him on BS like that. I was always firm, but NEVER argumentative. Sweetheart dropped the bomb March 20 2005. I IMMEDIATELY stopped escalating anything to an argument. We’ve had one fight since…and that was during reconciliation [after he was home] the day before Thanksgiving. In the beginning it is important to validate and affirm and be conciliatory. At this phase boundaries will just send them running. BUT at the same time you need to be firm…and this is a fine line. Let him know that you won’t rise to bait…not by saying that, but through your actions. Be careful…I am firm with Sweetheart and can prevent myself from escalating to an argument…I’ve gone off on him, but I don’t consider those arguments…My rant of a week ago Friday was a Bitch Lecture. If you will not be able to prevent yourself from escalating…don’t do what I did. Just listen and drop it But I want you to work on getting yourself to a place where you can respond without escalating and in such a way that he knows he will get nowhere with his rationale.

"Do you want me to come back? Ok. I'll come back. But I'll be miserable."

Okay, this is a dangerous form of a question…not because of the topic, but because he asked what YOU want. RED FLAG!!! Anything asking what YOU want is dangerous. MLCers don’t care what YOU want. Here’s how you answer. “No, You may come back [I will let you/allow you to] when YOU CHOOSE.” OR “No, but the door will always be open. You can come home when you are ready/when you choose.”
So if he at some point says something that you don’t want him to feel…”I hate you.” The proper answer is “I’m sorry you feel that way.” DO NOT SAY “I don’t want you [wish you didn’t] feel that way.” It’s subtle, but significant. Don’t impose your desires—though this is unintentional.

He does want us to get a legal separation. I asked him why then not a D. if he wasn't ever coming back.

Don’t look a gift horse in the mouth! It may not make sense to our sane minds, but if you don’t want a divorce don’t make him answer that question…drop it and be thankful. If you aren’t divorced time is on your side. Yes, there is remarriage, but it’s psychologically and financially a lot easier without it. STOP DOUBTING! STOP Thinking he’s not ever coming back! STOP believing what he says and what you see from him!

he doesn't come by because he feels very uncomfortable here. So, that's why no frequent visits anymore.

He is not comfortable in his own skin. Being around you and your home is just a guilty reminder for him…and guilt is not comforting. But look at the good side. He’s feeling guilt…that he is putting on himself. Guilt is a natural and healthy feeling…if he didn’t have it he’d just be a psychopathic jerk.

As far as what I had been saying about giving things a try before we truly decide it's over, he said "I'll think about it." I don't know if that was just his way to compromise so he could get out the door.

It probably was. Now STOP asking him to TRY and work things out first. STOP asking him to go to counseling! It doesn’t work that way, and that will just send him running farther away. You are pushing to hard.

He seems pretty adamant about his choices and is VERY clear that a committed relationship is not what he desires anymore.

Of course he seems this way. He is adamant about it and it’s what he wants. But didn’t he WANT to marry you…so he changed. He WILL change back. Let him mean what he says, but don’t buy into the idea that he will say and feel it forever…even if that’s what he thinks.


MLC takes several years. You need to prepare yourself for a long road. Get yourself into counseling, but do not ask or expect your husband to go with you. He’s not ready for the commitment, and he’s not ready for what might be said by you and a counselor.

Have you read Men in Midlife Crisis by Jim Conway? If not go get it from your library ASAP. Read the MLC chapter of DR, read the other books by Jim Conway and his wife Sally Your Marriage Can Survive Midlife Crisis, Your Husband’s Midlife Crisis, When a Mate Wants Out…
Have you read the MLC threads that people are always bumping….The Six Stages of MLC, and others? I can email a bunch of things to you in MS Word format…that way you don’t have to worry about searching for them every time you need them.

80% of MLCers try to return eventually…and if the spouse did not get that this was an MLC and just thought the MLCer was a jerk the response is WTF, you treated me like sh*t and want me to let you come back? Educate yourself so that you ca accept this terrible processes. It is a long tunnel, but according to Jim

The tunnel can be as long or short as people want. It can be shortened by working on the process or lengthened by denial.

You need to do as the others are saying and drop the rope. Detach yourself NOT NOT NOT from your husband but from his emotional rollercoaster. Find peace within yourself so that you can take back your power. It’s not going to be easy…but I promise you that if you find peace and strength it will be easier for you than for others. Honestly, I’m not having nearly the trouble most are. I attribute that to Spirituality [not religion], Peace, Strength, and Faith in Sweetheart, myself and our marriage—Faith being the opposite of Doubt…I DO NOT DOUBT.

There will be bad days and worse days, but you can do it. You need to be the rock for your husband AND the soft place where he can eventually land.
K-R

[hopefloats7]

RCRider,
So good of you to drop over here and post advice. I hope others gain some insight by reading it, too.
How's your cold??

Sometimes they just file what we say and how we react away and quietly keep it in a locked up memory for later…it’s what brings them back.

If this is true, it makes me feel better, because most of the time when we are talking, I feel like what I say goes in one ear and out the other for him.

But I want you to work on getting yourself to a place where you can respond without escalating and in such a way that he knows he will get nowhere with his rationale.

This is where I get an "F" on my DB'ing report card, and I know it. I get there in the moment with him and hope that this is going to be it; I'm going to solve this RIGHTNOW. But it never happens. "F" I will work on this.

The proper answer is “I’m sorry you feel that way.”
And here is where I get a B+, because I've said this to H. many times in response to something he's told me that might not be what I want to hear. And it's true--I am sorry he feels that way.

STOP Thinking he’s not ever coming back! STOP believing what he says and what you see from him
Easy to say I will do it...much harder to follow through. He seems pretty convincing when he tells me he's made up his mind. Again, I need to detach, I know.

Being around you and your home is just a guilty reminder for him…and guilt is not comforting. But look at the good side. He’s feeling guilt…that he is putting on himself. Guilt is a natural and healthy feeling
You're right. I will try to remember this from now on, although I do still miss him and the times he would come by.

Detach yourself NOT NOT NOT from your husband but from his emotional rollercoaster. Find peace within yourself so that you can take back your power. It’s not going to be easy
Detachment for me is explained like a mental disentanglement. I feel like my emotions are "knotted" around my husband, and I've had to slowly pull the knots loose. When this all began 5 months ago I felt like the knot was so big I'd never be able to break free from the pain of this. I do think since then, I've made it smaller, but there is work to be done.

RCRider, you have a lot of wisdom and I'm so happy you could share it here. Thank you so much.

[hopefloats7]

A very snowy, windy morning here in the northeast.

Making coffee and thinking a lot about what H. could be thinking, that he would want to live his life this way. I've come to some conclusions about it, and am working the answers out slowly. I need to do this if I'm going to be able to fully detach and let go of him. I'm seeing the light as I look back on our marriage and his behavior through those years. This doesn't mean I'm finding any way I can personally help him; I'm just discovering why he's ended up this way. It's helped to talk to some of my family members who know him so well, too. They have shed some light on the situation for me.

I've got to start looking for a dress for this wedding in the summer. I was going to look today, but it's pretty nasty weather out there. If it clears up later I'll venture out.

No calls to him, from him. I guess we've gone dark on each other, after Thursday night's dinner together. Probably for the best. I still think about him; I hope he does the same.

Time for that coffee...

[bigAl]

Hey Hope. Morning coffee time is a good time to think about things. I do it all the time too (including today). I think you are going down a good path right now. Snuggle up and watch the snow and have some coffee. Sounds nice.

[spitfire23]

Good Morning Hope!

You sound good this morning. You seem to be moving to a new place. By the way you are responding to your posts, you sound like you are gaining a new understanding of your life and situation. I'm proud of you!

I have no desire to venture out when the weather is yucky. I am already dying for Spring to get here. Every winter my circle of friends would take a "couples trip" in either Jan. or Feb. It was great fun and so uplifting to be somewhere warm. No couples trip this year! I would have begged them to go, even as a single, if they had done it, though. I think I will go somewhere warm for Spring Break.

Take care,

Spitfire

[NYsurvivor]

I need to do this if I'm going to be able to fully detach and let go of him. I'm seeing the light as I look back on our marriage and his behavior through those years.

I found it's bunch of this and some of that, with other thisses and thats thrown into the mix. It gives an understanding to some degree, and then you can deal from there. In my case, it had me understand not only the possible whys but that WAW was likely never in a place to have a fruitful relationship. I also learned that I wasn't there yet either.

[hopefloats7]

Hi Al, Spitfire and NY S,

Thanks for checking in on me. I'm ok. Still sad of course but as I said, I'm turning it all over in my mind and seeing how this happened to H. and our R. You know, no matter what he tries to say about it, I don't believe he can have a healthy, lasting relationship with o.w. or anybody right now. He would have a lot of changing and growing up to do first, and it is evident that he is not working on himself in that way.
I still wish he had it in him to try for us.
The snow has stopped, so I have go dig myself out and get to the store today. Hope everyone is having a good day.

[kismet]

Hi Hope, I am reading your post about coffee and snow as I sit here sipping my first cup. No snow here ~ although it is a bit dreary and overcast.

So any luck finding the dress?

You know, no matter what he tries to say about it, I don't believe he can have a healthy, lasting relationship with o.w. or anybody right now. He would have a lot of changing and growing up to do first, and it is evident that he is not working on himself in that way.


Too true. I feel this about my wah as well. I really don't think he loves himself, so really doesn't have the capacity to love anyone else, not truly.

Have a great day. Now when you say The snow has stopped, so I have go dig myself out , do you mean that literally? Just to get out the front door? Not meaning to sound like an idiot, but ...