Where's my pot of gold?

[always_14]

Goodness, no, I'm not a counselor! If I were, I certainly wouldn't be doing the silly things I do each day!

W2S, good insight on the MLC assessment, I don't know much about it. If you think there are classic signs, worth reading, and I'm wondering if H's C will pick up on this, provided he goes to several sessions. Wonder why Cs are so reluctant to diagnose as such? Maybe b/c MLC is a stage or outcome, with lots of underlying issues that still need to be worked on? That makes sense.

Reading anything that can help you understand you H (or spouse) is really enlightening. I need to practice more of that.

Awwww, HAPPY 11TH ANNIVERSARY!!!! What a sweet reflection note from you, really made me happy for you. Sorry that the day didn't work as planning....hoping H still gets some time off. Don't take it to heart....it's GOOD that he feels pressured to spend time with you and pulled...it's tough. I used to feel this way too, then realized that work is important, and not as forgiving as a spouse can be. I'm sure he's thrilled that you tried, and still plan to leave, makes him feel loved. He just feels pressured that he has to react in kind to show you that you that he loves you (trust me, I play this dance every day!). It'll smooth out. Let him know, again, that you didn't mean to put him on the spot, just curious if he could leave early, if not, nobiggie, you still plan on having LOTS of fun with him over the weekend!

You've got lots of new leads with MLC and other things to reflect on. Spend the rest of the day doing that, with peace in your heart. Then, put it away for the night...have a nice time with H. I see that you packed...make sure that no stress, issues, thoughts, worries crept into your bags...too heavy for a nice weekend away.

Kudo's to you for reaching out to H and planning the weekend. I know it'll be much appreciated!

Tell me how it goes!

[Keyster43]

Strong,
Happy Anni.! Have a good time this evening. Where are you going Foxwoods or the Moh? Unfortunately I spent a tad too much time at F***woods, playing poker and losing just enough to cause problems. I dont do that anymore.

AK

[StrongEnough]

Hi everyone thanks for stopping by.

AK- We went to Foxwoods. I like both casinos though.

Well, H got home a little early. When he came in he wanted to know what was going on, so I just told him. On the way there he thanked me for planning this for us.

We had a good night. Played bingo, played the slots, ordered some champagne and whatnot from room service. Didn't get to sleep until 2:30 (then I woke up at 5:30).

H was acting quiet and distant this morning. We rode home in silence. I asked him three times what was wrong only to get "this is how I get" as an answer

After we got home and my parents left, he told me what was bothering him. Basically, he was hurt and angry that there was no intimacy last night. He said that if I don't want to intimate with him on our anniversary, then he knows where this M stands. We went around in circles about for over an hour. H basically said he wasn't sure if he could do this anymore, and if there isn't any intimacy in our M he doesn't know if he wants to stay in it. I told him there is more to marriage then that, and right now those other things aren't there between us. I don't feel close to him emotionally, so I don't want intimacy, he doesn't get intimacy and doesn't feel close. The usual.

I am at a loss. He walked out the door and hasn't come back. Now, what if I was to have surgery and could never be intimate again? Would he leave me? And I understand that intimacy is important in any R, but is it worth throwing away your family because you don't have the patience to wait for the M to heal after you screwed it up by having an A?

I told him that I was sorry that the healing process for both of us is taking way longer then he initially thought, and that if he doesn't have the patience to wait it out, then that's only a decision he can make. His response "I am not going to make things easy for you, you just don't want to be the one to pull the trigger".

Luckily my D came home so it was time to end the (at that point) telephone conversation. I just don't know what to do anymore and I am beggining to think that we cannot work as a couple in a M only as friends and co-parents.

Anyone have any thoughts?

~SE

[Keyster43]

SE,
Sounds like your H is dwelling on the past way too much and clings to his anger and resentment. It looks like, until he is ready to let go of this, he will not be ready to commit to your new R and M. I will venture that one small, percieved slight on your part, and he might be out th door. This must be very frustrating for you. After all you are trying and he seems to think you are not. Hang in there, and Rock On dudete .

AK

[sage]

Hi SE,

Let me gently comment/ask some questions...

You know what he wants, he knows what you want. You can wait for him to give you what you want or you can take some steps towards giving him what he wants. Your best bet at "control" of this situation is to focus on you, right? Which would imply that your best bet of getting what you want is to make some motions towards him...

Can you see yourself doing this?

Let me also suggest this...what if you viewed this as your h not just asking for physical intimacy but him telling you "I need to feel as though you've started the process of forgiving me and are ready to move forward in our M".

It seems to me there's real potenitial for you to lose your marriage or damage it in a lasting way with the current stand off...are you willing to take that risk? If not, what might be some steps you could take towards him? What steps would you hope he would take in return (be SPECIFIC....I'm not asking for "I want more emotional closeness"...I want to know specifically what things he could be doing -- ACTIONS).

Sage

[StrongEnough]

Thanks AK and Sage.

AK- He said last night that he still wants to work on this. I am the one who said "I am THIS close to calling it quits". He asked me if I was threatening him. I told him I wasn't just telling him how I was truly feeling. He does harbor a lot of anger and resentment and that's where I see the problem as you will see in my response to Sage.

Sage- I have made many steps towards H. He has asked for other things that I have made a daily effort on. THings like more hugs and kisses, being the first to say :I love you", doing little acts of service (his LL). I have been open with my feelings when he asks about them. Intimacy is the only thing that I haven't been able to give into yet. Instead of noticing anything that I do make effort on, I get blasted for the one thing I don't. As far as what I would like in return from him. When he is talking to me openly about his feelings, he throws all his anger and resentment my way. From the first word to the last word, it's all anger. I have tried, with my responses, to steer the conversations in different directions to get him to redirect or atleast try and recogmize his anger. Nothing seems to work. We talked about this last night and he knows it's something that he needs to work on. I told him that his openness is appreciated, because after 10 years of lying to my face, that's what I need. I also told him that when he approaches me with anger, that it's not meeting my needs as much as it is pushing me away. So, I basically feel that my needs aren't getting met. We agreed to discuss this in MC. We can't go to MC until H gets some more IC. (At the request of our C's)

When he returned yesterday, our S2 was napping. I took the opportunity to take a little nap myself. H asked if I was avoiding him and I told him I wasn't avoiding him. I was avoiding the arguing. I wake up to this email that he wrote for me:

SE:
I’m sorry for what I am putting you through. Through all of this I have come to realize what kind of person I am and what I need to work on for my own happiness. I now understand what you felt like when all of this happened. (As far as hurt and depression go.) I will try my best not to bring up the subject anymore as I see it is a dead issue. You have come a long way in the last few months and I don’t want to ruin that for you. I don’t know how to deal with my feelings right now and because of that I am pushing you away…that is the last thing I want to do. I will try my best to push my needs aside and cater to your needs, I don’t know what else to do and that seems to be the only way for us to live in peace. I’m going to ask for some antidepressants Tuesday as I think it will help me deal with my feelings better and think clearer. I hate feeling like this all of the time and you are not able to help me through, not that I should look to you for that either.

H

I really didn't know what to make of it. I don't know what he means by "what kind of person I am". I decided against asking because we were both emotionally exhuasted and I didn't talking again would be productive at that point. Secondly, I did tell him that pushing his needs aside and catering to mine wasn't a healthy thing and that I wasn't unwilling to meet his needs. (I have been trying) I also know that he has said something similar to that, only to end up blowing up at me when he has had enough catering and wants his needs met. He pretty much said he blames me for his depression and anxiety. It all stems from me, and that I am unwilling to help him through it How can I help him with that???? I give him everything he asks for (except that one thing) I don't know. I am definitely going to look more into that MLC thing as I see him as a bit confused right now. Like he is lost within himself.

He also mentioned that he doesn't like me working on me. He doesn't like the fact that I come here, get advice and give advice, and that I have grown as a person. He thinks that takes the focus of working on the M. I tried to explain that isn't the case, it just gives me a more positive attitude and the strength I need to try and through it. He just doesn't get it.

So, I pretty much got left with the feeling that I can't do anything right for him and we agreed that communication is a big problem with us and something we need to work on in MC.

On a lighter note, my mom saw he wasn't right when got home yesteray. She called me later and asked what was going on. I told her. After a couple hours, she called to make sure the roof was still on the house, and I told her H had calmed down and there was still a roof. She said "Good, because you don't want to know the comment I had for him if he was still angry at you". I HAD to ask, so I did. Her response" Well, if he thinks sex is so damn special and so sacred and wonderful in the M, then why was he willing to do it with the first women he met with peanut butter legs?" I just had to laugh. I thought it was really funny. Negative, but funny.

So the night ended with us watching a stand up comic that is really funny. We didn't talk, just watched the DVD and had some laughs, then went to bed. He left for work already so it gives me some time to reflect on the events and see what can be done in this situation.

Sage- I hope this book I just wrote answered some of your questions.

~SE

[StrongEnough]

On another note here. This depression/anxiety with my H is new. It has developed over the last month or so. In that time, he has been all over the place with his feelings. I told him he is like a fish on dry land, flopping around with his emotions. One minute he is throwing his hands up, doesn't think he can do this anymore, etc. Then, a little while later is all "I love you, I want to make this work, etc." He goes back and forth all the time. His moods are all over the place. H hasn't acted this way in a while. My instinct tells me there is something wrong.

Well, when I was talking to mother today her impression of the situation is that he could be setting up a way out because he has his eye on someone and might want to explore that. Unfortunately, it hit home with me. I see much of the same behaviour now that I saw in H before I found out about the affair, with the exception of him telling me he wants to work on this. He even bought the book After the Affair yesterday.

He has me totally confused. He knows that he is superb liar and I can't tell when he is lying to me.

He also stresses a lot on the "I am 34 years, I am not getting any younger." So, is he settling? Am I?

The thing that disturbs me the most is that he holds my personal growth against me like it's a bad thing. It didn't say it in the email, but what he wrote and what he says about it are two different things. I told him that if he were to leave, my life wouldn't fall apart like it did the last time. It was my fault that I gave him that much power over me to render me lost and helpless when he left. I won't let that happen again for the sake of my children. I told him that I know I can make it, and have a happy life. I think it's a good thing that I don't depend on him for my happiness. He sees all of this as negative and twists it around to make it sound like I don't want to be with him.

I guess my main point it he is constantly telling me that he doesn't think I want to be with him, he doesn't think I love him, he can't do this much longer, he's going to start bottling up his feelings and not talk anymore...all these negative things. Could this be an attempt on his part to make me be the one to end it so he isn't the bad guy again?

~SE

[always_14]

Hey Strong,

A few days since I've written to you....sorry that your weekend was a little rough. Ugh.

But, the email---WOW!!! That's amazing. Isn't that what you've been wanting, in a way? Don't read into what he didn't say but says otherwise...for now, believe in the email. We've all said a lot of things in the past that we didn't mean, wish the other person would forget b/c we're trying to change. This is the FIRST time that your H has expressed this kind of remorse in a while and really understood how you're feeling...as opposed to his needs.

Speaking of emails...do you think that this could be a better medium to talk? I know my H said that he liked getting my emails, non-confrontational, he could read whenever, no pressure to react, etc. Also, you could express lots of affection and care through words that are often hard to do in person...like telling him that you DO care about his needs and meeting them, that you're trying.

Sounds like H is being a little more sensitive to how he's making you feel. He's climbing out of his guilt haze of panick and seeing YOU.

I think he's really trying. I know sex is the ultimate need from him, while he's open to talking, can you ask him what would make him feel that you're trying, while not jumping to the final act for you....more kisses, etc, etc? Sometimes it's nice when the other person points out what they're trying to do...when you're panicked you don't see. For example, I was SO hung up on H not talking...I was so panicked in seeing big results and not letting our M go down the tubes that I was blind to his efforts. He pointed them out one day, and I realized....I realized other things too that he's trying....I compliment them. So maybe you could remind him of the things he's doing. Can you also compliment him on the email, for ONCE not cornering you in a conversation face to face (rather writing an email), for admitting to lots of things, and for really putting himself in your shoes. That's nice.

hang in there, you'll get there...you have lots of little positives here. Keep it up.

[StrongEnough]

Hi Always...

But, the email---WOW!!! That's amazing. Isn't that what you've been wanting, in a way?

No, not really. Everything he put in that email he has said to me time and time again. Then, he switches his feelings and says he can't do this anymore, blah, blah, blah.

Some days he tries, other days he doesn't. One day it seems like he gives it all he has, then other days he pulls far, far away. I know that's probably par for the course, but he keeps pushing me further and further away. I am just not sure how much further away he can push me before it's too far.

So, yes, these are positives, but there are alwys more negatives then positives. And eventually he just throw it in my face that he gave up his needs for a couple days, weks whatever and still got nothing.

I have kissed him more, etc. I reminded him of that and he totally blew it off.

I am disgusted and frustrated and ready to just say f$#* it. I can say that, and still feel good about myself and still retain my confidence. So, I don't know what that means, whether it's good or bad.

Gotta run out for a bit, will catch up on your sitch when I get back.

~SE

[always_14]

Strong,

I'm so sorry. I can understand how you feel. It must be tough living with the yo-yo of M emotions.

I guess the only thing I can say is to just let him be. You have a plan, you push forward with your changes, little by little, as much as you can give. It seems that you have no control over him and he's not willing to really work on this WITH you, just in circles around you. Just let him be. Don't react to his actions....you're doing great.

I'd say that your emotions are detaching. How long did you say you separated for? Did you feel that it was too soon to move back together again? did you need more space? Do you need it now?

You made a good point for me to remember...really struck home...about being consistent with my emotions. It's fine to have off days and occasional meltdowns, but no blaming or resentment. Those days are over, but I can see how they give the impression of working hard one day and moving far away the next. It's important for me to always portray the will to make it work, the want...even if it's a sad day, hard day.

Thanks