Where's my pot of gold?

[StrongEnough]

Hi everyone. I have been reading a lot of these posts here and thought I would join the group as you all seem like a great bunch of people. Here's a brief on my situation:

Married to H 11 years, 2 kids. H (who was never unaccounted for where he was or what he was doing) decides we need to seperate after a few tense weeks in 2003. I found out shortly thereafter that he is having an affair with my friend. She is married, has three children. I immediately bought Michele's books and started putting things into motion. After a while, it became less about H and more about me and my happiness. H and OW were no longer together. We had done the D in court. I was with someone else and happy. H drops the second "bomb" that he still loves me and wants to work things out. We have been back together for a little over a year. Children are thrilled. We, on the other hand, are struggling and not so happy.

I never thought it was going to be this hard. I mean, I know it wouldn't be easy, but never did I imagine this. I envisioned happiness, smiles and laughter....a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It was like that for about a month then reality gave us both a wake up call. I thought I had moved on. I thought I had forgiven his affair. It didn't take me long to realize that forgiving him when he wasn't part of my life was diffferent then forgiving him while he is part of my life. I, personally, have been up and down. I am on the emotional roller coaster and I just want to get off now. After a year or so of riding it, I'm quite dizzy!!!!

I started counseling last summer and I am still in counseling. My H (D never final) felt he didn't need it. He had figured out his issues while we were seperated. After meeting with my counselor, she suggested that he get one of his own and start to really deal with his issues. He hesitated, saying that it was useless, but then finally agreed to go I think more to satiate me than anything else.

At best, things have been difficult between us. I broke up with someone I cared for, and have unresolved feelings for him. I have a difficult time trusting my H again. My H on the other hand has a difficult time trusting me due to the above mentioned unresolved feelings. We both have a lot of anxiety and tension around us due to this. When he is anxious, he wants the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I, tell him. He then holds it against me. As a natural defense mechanism, I, like most people when being attacked, close up and throw up the wall real quick.

So, here we are, over a year into this and we have made zero progress. There are days when I question if I made the right decision getting back together with him. When we first met, he cheated on his g/f to be with me and the fool I was thought that he would NEVER do it to me. Now I am wondering if it's a pattern and if it is going to repeat itself. Nevertheless, I am putting my best foot forward and trying to give this all I have. The problem is, now he has been a little "weird" this last week or so. When I called him on it, he went into overkill with the "I love you" notes and tm's......then quickly forgot about my concern over the distance I felt from him and now we are back where we started. He is distant so I distance myself and we stay status quo.

DB'ing had done wonders for me to gain back my self-respect and confidence as a person, mother, friend and lover. Now, I feel that's all out the window. I have been dragged down so low that I feel stuck and useless. Me perceiving him as distant emotionally doesn't help. (of course he denies it)

I figure I can't be the only one who DB'ed and ended up happy without H in their life only to return to life with H and end up lost amd miserable again. I would really appreciate anyone's input at this point. I can't see the forest for the trees at this point and I apologize if my post seems all over the place. At this point, what makes sense to me might not make sense to anyone else.

StrongEnough

[sage]

Hi there,

First off, congratulations on ALL of your successes with DB'ing. As you point out, I'm not just talking about restoring the M but also restoring you in the process. That sounds wonderful and I'm sure the result of a lot of hard work on your part.

I have a couple of thoughts on your post. I'm sure others will jump in with others.

1. My first thought was that you're both probably feeling pretty gunshy about recommitting to this R. Very understandable but still hard to get over. In my sitch, I was feeling gunshy because I felt as though I had been burned by h (he had the EA) and was reluctant to put myself all "there" again. HE was feeling gunshy because he felt so guilty and ashamed that he ASSumed I could never want him back again totally and my hestitation just kind of confirmed that for him. There were times when I likened it to each of us walking on a tightrope towards each other...I would start feeling like I had made too many steps towards him without his recipricating and most likely, he felt the same. I don't really have a magical solution to all this...I guess what worked for me was time (how annoying! ), trying to understand his fears (thanks to my good friends here!), sometimes swallowing my fears and acting "as if" I was all there (the fake it 'til you make it approach), just accepting that I was "here" and was going to throw myself into it, potential hurt be damned, and/or just not dwelling on the ambivalence -- it is what it is but it doesn't have to prevent us from going forward (IOW, we don't have to mentally commit to each other RIGHT NOW in order to make progress). Probably other things, too.

2. My next thought was that you had so much success with DB'ing...have you tried to apply the principles to the piecing process as well? IOW, set some small goals, work out some 180s, etc? For example, you mention you feel like he's distant so you distance, etc. Sounds like a pattern that's meant to be broken to me! What if next time instead of pulling away you moved just a bit closer (ack! There's that anxiety again!)? Might mix things up a bit. You might find benefit in listening to Michele's "Keeping Love Alive" CD's. They contain a lot of the DB principles but are also useful for couples.

3. Have you read some of the other books so often recommended here? I'm thinking of "The Five Love Languages" and also "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"? The first will feed into my next thought(#4) while the second might help with the whole "distance" thing (and communication, too!). It took me a long time to realize that h's distant mode didn't necessarily mean a return to THEN. Sometimes it just meant he needed some cave time.

4. What if you guys took the focus off of "fixing" things and focused on having good times together? I'm sure that sounds a bit counterintuitive, I mean here you have this big "problem" that needs to be fixed and I'm suggesting NOT working on it...but maybe a period of just being together, doing things you enjoy, really having a good time, would be rejuvenating? What's your love language? What's h's? What did you guys used to do together and really enjoy?

Thoughts?

Sage

[StrongEnough]

Thanks for replying Sage. Thank you for the Congrats, but the way things are going I am not sure I am worthy of it at this point.

I am quite gunshy about recommiting to this relationship and my H. I guess when I look at the facts that he cheated to be with me when I first met him, then he cheated on me, and not to mention that he lied throughout our marriage, I think the fear of getting burned again rises when I recognize this pattern. He is 100% ready to commit to this. The problem being is that I am not in a position to be able to give him 100%. As of recent, we have been arguiing quite a bit. He is too easy to tell me to "leave and go find myself". First off, the house we live in is mine and secondly, he is nuts if he thinks I am walking out on my kids. He has pushed me so far away with his words that I almost feel unreachable at this point.

To address the DB'ing, I haven't put any of the principles into play here except that I am not attached to an outcome, I have no expectations. At this point, maybe not such a good thing. H is definitely attached to an outcome of us staying together and being happy. Maybe I need to dust off the old books and start reading again.

And for us putting the fixing things aside and doing things we used to enjoy doing together, well, as per usual, there is a problem with that. We are totally different people, we like different music, we dress differently, we don't like going out and doing the same things. We don't even like the same kind of movies, so staying home and watching a movie has it's negativity attached to it. One of us usually ends up happy because we are doing what we like, and the other one usually sucks it up and tries to make the best of it.

The only thing we are good at and have been good at in the past is figthing, alienating on another and pushing each other's buttons. I know I sound soooo negative, but it's hard to see any positives I guess because of the way things are going.

I read the love languages book a couple years ago, when this all started. I know one of his LL's is words of affirmation, I have since lent out the book to someone that I am no longer talking to. Guess I will have to rebuy it and reread it along with the Db and DR books. Looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me!!!!

Again, thanks for the response. Right now I am sooo lost. I just really don't know what to do anymore. I guess rereading the books would be a good start. Thanks.

StrongEnough

[StrongEnough]

I am sitting here, thinking about all that has happened over the past few years. The A, the day he walked out on me, etc. Then, I am thinking about how I put DB in effect for me and my life.

Now, I know I may get blasted for saying this, but as thankful as I am for having found and read the books, I wonder if it is now working against me.

When H came back wanting to get back together I was a completely different person and he liked what he saw. (DB'ing does work) I was confident, had an awesome job after going through school, was in a relationship, always dressed up with make up on and hair perfectly in place and had a much more open mind. He said he loved the way I carried myself. Now, we are back together, and all that I worked for has slipped away. Bad memories haunt me. Distrust keeps me away from him. I am all the things I was before he left (negative) and then some. I think maybe that is why he insists that I don't want to be with him. I make him feel this way becasue of that. I feel into a deep depression last summer and had to do some outpatient counseling at a local mental hospital. I struggle everyday with my depression and anxiety.

A part of me thinks he is already gone, atleast emotionally, from this relationship. He told me yesterday that he didn't want to be here anymore and hated that he felt that way because he knows he will regret it if he leaves, but if things don't change he will leave again. That on top of him telling me atleast three times to leave yesterday alone. That was what pushed me away so far.

We smoothed things over a bit and took the kids out to dinner last night. I am a hard core rock fan, so when we go out, he will play rock for me. He never ever sings. Well, on the way to the restaurant, he made it a point to crank up CInderella's "Nobody's Fool" and sing it word for word. I am sure I am over-anyalyzing, but I took this to heart. Like he was directing it towards me. I love music and can always find the right song to express my feelings and he knows that.

His biggest issue with me is that I am not physically close enough to him. We rarely, if ever ML. I am not the huggy, kissey kind with him. I was supposed to push my fears and hurt aside and try to meet his needs and he would do the same for me. He got upset today because by noon time I hadn't gone near him except for a good-bye protocol kiss. When I think about grabbing him and hugging him, or grabbing him and kissing him......my anxiety gets so bad that I have to pop my anti-anxiety medication. I HATE living on meds just to function day to day because I let my depression and anxiety rule my life. I decided today to start using his home gym daily to see if I can work out some of that anxiety on it. But the problem still remains that I am not interested in ML. From October to recently, I had four major surgeries and the last one threw me into a surgical menopause. (I am 31). I wasn't able to ML for the months that I was having the surgeries and recovering. But I know that's no excuse, I was LD before all that happened. THis confuses me because with my ex-bf (the one I broke up with to reconcile) I was very affectionate and we ML all the time.

So, I think somehow, when I lost my DB'ing skills except the afformentioned ones in the last post, that's when things fell apart. Why does one find it so difficult to be themselves in the presence of a specific person?

Please, if anyone has any words of wisdom, I am at my wits end here trying to figure out what caused us to get to this place, and how to go about turning things around.

In all fairness, I do need to mention that my H asks about my feelings for my ex-bf and I am honest with him. He doesn't like what he hears, and he feels that ex-bf is competition for him.

Thanks to anyone who took the time to read and/or respond to my frantic mumbling and rantings!

StrongEnough

[StrongEnough]

Does anyone have any advice? Any expeience with this?

I know that most people are happy when they reconcile with their spouses......I just really need some input on this.

Thanks!

[sage]

Hi there,

I'm taking your posts in order ('cause I'm a linear kind of gal!). I hope that doesn't backfire.

I am not in a position to be able to give him 100%. As of recent, we have been arguiing quite a bit. He is too easy to tell me to "leave and go find myself". First off, the house we live in is mine and secondly, he is nuts if he thinks I am walking out on my kids. He has pushed me so far away with his words that I almost feel unreachable at this point.

So, two things jump out at me here...first off, the ASSumption that you need to be 100% READY to recommit. That's an awful lot to ask of yourself. Michele would ask you "What would be the FIRST sign that you were ready to recommit?" and I guess I'd follow-up by saying, what would be a sign to you that you were ready to take a wee step towards him OR even, not back away? You don't have to make the giant step of "yah, I'm here forever".

The second thing is (and maybe I'm misunderstanding you) that is SEEMS like maybe you're testing him a bit? You seem to be put off that after arguing (during which I suspect your doubts get raised), he suggests you leave and that is giving you the "hey, if he can't put up with THIS..." thought process?

Are you testing him? Seeing how much of your angst and doubt he can tolerate before he throws in the towel? If so, I urge you to stop for a few reasons...it's too easy to say things that can't be taken back, it's not fair to either of you and he will always, always fall short because you will always find some OTHER way he SHOULD have responded.

And for us putting the fixing things aside and doing things we used to enjoy doing together, well, as per usual, there is a problem with that. We are totally different people, we like different music, we dress differently, we don't like going out and doing the same things. We don't even like the same kind of movies, so staying home and watching a movie has it's negativity attached to it. One of us usually ends up happy because we are doing what we like, and the other one usually sucks it up and tries to make the best of it.

REALLY? So, how did you guys get together in the first place? Was there nothing that you ever enjoyed doing together? It was always one person happy and the other just sucking it up???

I guess rereading the books would be a good start. Thanks.

Yup...and a mini goal or two ....

Sage

[sage]

Now, we are back together, and all that I worked for has slipped away. Bad memories haunt me. Distrust keeps me away from him. I am all the things I was before he left (negative) and then some. I think maybe that is why he insists that I don't want to be with him. I make him feel this way becasue of that. I feel into a deep depression last summer and had to do some outpatient counseling at a local mental hospital. I struggle everyday with my depression and anxiety.

I'm sorry that you are struggling so much. Does it help at all to know that it's not uncommon to face the anxiety and fear when reconciliation occurs and often not before?

I don't see, though, how it is that DB'ing is working against you...what it sounds like to me (an ASSumption) is that you actually let some of the DB principles slip away ...again, not at all uncommon for us here in Piecing.

A part of me thinks he is already gone, atleast emotionally, from this relationship. He told me yesterday that he didn't want to be here anymore and hated that he felt that way because he knows he will regret it if he leaves, but if things don't change he will leave again. That on top of him telling me atleast three times to leave yesterday alone. That was what pushed me away so far.

Aren't you BOTH doing a pretty good job of testing the other? I mentioned this in my other response...at a minimum, you're both arguing with the other and then retreating to your own corners. It seems like you're each looking to the other to be more committed, more sure, maybe even more sure than you yourself are....again, not uncommon, but probably not something that is sustainable.

Here's my cut to the chase assessment...reconciliation, particulary after an affair, is a scary, crappy, anxiety producing exercise in which two people, each with their own fears and agenda, try to come together with no guarantees of success despite all hope of finding some. Did I scare the crap out of you?

Here's another way of looking at it...reconciliation after an affair is an opportunity to explore what it means to be afraid and do it anyway, to heal, to forgive, to reassess and hopefully to strengthen bonds that existed for real reasons in the first place.

For better or worse, both of those viewpoints can exist simultaneously.

Piecing is not for the faint of heart.

His biggest issue with me is that I am not physically close enough to him. We rarely, if ever ML. I am not the huggy, kissey kind with him. I was supposed to push my fears and hurt aside and try to meet his needs and he would do the same for me. He got upset today because by noon time I hadn't gone near him except for a good-bye protocol kiss. When I think about grabbing him and hugging him, or grabbing him and kissing him......my anxiety gets so bad that I have to pop my anti-anxiety medication. I HATE living on meds just to function day to day because I let my depression and anxiety rule my life. I decided today to start using his home gym daily to see if I can work out some of that anxiety on it. But the problem still remains that I am not interested in ML. From October to recently, I had four major surgeries and the last one threw me into a surgical menopause. (I am 31). I wasn't able to ML for the months that I was having the surgeries and recovering. But I know that's no excuse, I was LD before all that happened. THis confuses me because with my ex-bf (the one I broke up with to reconcile) I was very affectionate and we ML all the time.

There's SO much going on here...babysteps, ok? What would it mean to touch him or hold his hand briefly to start...? Also, the exercising sounds like a GREAT idea.

So, I think somehow, when I lost my DB'ing skills except the afformentioned ones in the last post, that's when things fell apart. Why does one find it so difficult to be themselves in the presence of a specific person?

Nah, you didn't lose them...they just went on hiatus when the context changed...all the skills you have are still within you.

Sage

[sage]

I know that most people are happy when they reconcile with their spouses......I just really need some input on this.

It's REALLY common to struggle with negative feelings once the WAS returns. 'cause you've been in self-preservation mode for a long time and then all of a sudden, you are faced with confronting all the anger, hurt, betrayal, etc, that wasn't right in front of you.

Lots of things may help...what works for you and h remains to be seen...

exercise
spending positive time together
therapy (alone or together) with a marriage minded counselor
making sure you're taking good care of yourself
acting "as if"
meditating
applying DB
using books together ("After the Affair", "How can I forgive you?" spring to mind) or alone
Taking a break from "fixing" things
Other things I can't think of right now...

I KNOW others here have dealt with similar feelings...anyone else care to chime in????

Sage

[StrongEnough]

Thank again Sage......you have given me a lot to think about.

So, two things jump out at me here...first off, the ASSumption that you need to be 100% READY to recommit.

This is not an ASSumption. H has flat out told me that he needs me to put forth 100% into this R. He expects me to be totally 100% committed emotionally, physically and otherwise. He doesn't want to hear that I can't give that. In HIS mind, it is unacceptable to expect anything less.

The second thing is (and maybe I'm misunderstanding you) that is SEEMS like maybe you're testing him a bit?

This is a very good question. Maybe subconsciously I am. I do tend to tell him that the way I am now is a direct result of all that has happened between us and maybe that is where the "hey, if he can't put up with this thought process comes into play.

REALLY? So, how did you guys get together in the first place? Was there nothing that you ever enjoyed doing together? It was always one person happy and the other just sucking it up???

Yep. Pretty much. We got togtehter through my brother. We knew right from the get go that we were totally different people. But, (no excuse here but I feel it's worth a mention) we were young. I was 19 and he was 21. We had a strong connection despite the differences. He moved out on his g/f the night after our first date and moved in with me. Two days later we were engaged. Married shortly thereafter. (He has always been impulsive. He left us impulsively and came back just as impulsively) I think the only thing we agree on is going out to dinner. We can agree on a restaurant.

I have been looking for my books. I am not sure where they are. I had them on the bookcase. They are gone. I can't remember if maybe I put them away, threw them away, or H disposed of them himself. He got a little *agitated* with me for coming on the boards. I can't understand why. I didn't dare try to explore it when he questioned me about it.

So, I guess my mini goal is to find my DB and DR books.

I don't want to make this super long like my last posts have been so I will try to address a few things you mentioned that stuck in my memory.

1) Are we testing each other?

There is a very good chance that that is what is going on here. Maybe we don't want to face it or admit it.

2) Physical closeness. Try holding his hand, etc.

Well, I have tried. Last night we cuddled in bed. WHen he realized that my sleeping pill was kicking in and it wasn't going any further, he got aggravated and got out of bed. This is a recurring issue. If I give even a little bit, he ASSumes it will lead to sex. It frustates me and it frustates him and then we end up giving up. It's SO easy for us to give up.

H is finally going to start with a C next week. My C suggested that we are nowhere near ready for M counseling, but we can try and see what the M counselor says. My C was going to do it, but the one session with the two of us became an hour of H talking about HIS needs, HIS problems w/me, HIM, HIM and more HIM. Not US like it was supposed to be. Right now we feed into each other's anxiety. We both need to get better control of ourselves and our anxiety before we can take a step forward. If we don't, it will be the same old cat and mouse chase.

Thanks again Sage for your support. I truly appreciate it. Any comments on anything I said?

~StrongEnough

[StrongEnough]

You know.......I have to say that I find it very easy to go to the newcomer's forum and give advice. I guess because they are on a path that I have traveled before. I find that I can't really find any encouraging advice for anyone in pieceing. Because it's new to me I suppose. (even though we have been back together for over a year)

But I find posting to other people theraputic in a way. It has really helped my anxiety a little. I don't know how or why, just that it has.

I have yet to find my books, so I am a little panicky about that. I have to keep looking or just rebuy them. A lot of it starting to come back to me now.

So, I have set some mini goals for myself.
1) Get my butt on the home gym atleast every other day. On the days I do not do weight/resistance....I will dance to the wiggles with my son. That should count for an hour of exercise (cardio) and dancing is something I enjoy and so does my son and he could loose a few pounds himself.
2) I have been neglecting my appearance for quite some time now. I am a sahm/wahm so this is not too hard to slip into. I will no longer tolerate chipped nail polish!
3) I will do my best to improve my eating habits. Instaead of one meal a day and a night time snack, I will take in more fruit and whole grains during the day and eat a sensible dinner.

These are small goals and right now that is where I need to start. I need to start being "me" and not just being a wife and mother. I need to balalnce the "GAL" with being a mother and a wife. My cousin has been wanting to go out to dinner and have a few drinks like forever. I think I will take her up on the offer for next week and go. I know my H has trust issues with me (even though I didn't cheat, he did...can't figure that one out) but that is something that he is going to have to own. I am tired of feeling like if I go out, I will have consequences and an attitude to deal with.

How does that sound? Any input?