Before I talk about my stuff tonight I want to point people to Marty's thread (shark) which AmyC turned me on to. He really needs some insights and his sitch is very different than any I've seen.
Frank,
I once asked myself when do you call it. When I see divorced people or see want ads. I always ask myself, are you the one who wanted out or was it your S. Did you want out and not stay faithful to the vows. Or was it your S. Which one of you was the quiter. Or is a winner someone who knows when to quite?
If its true that my wife is sending me a message. That I either SHOW her the changes or its over then what are you doing? What are things in yours that are the same as mine? What advice do you have for me being that my situation is different? I have been saying and thinking this for as long as I have been on this BB.
You said my situation is like no other. What did you mean by that? What am I suppose to do? My wife says ALL kinds of things but nothing compared to what your wife or other H or W. Could my wife be just waiting it out until I say enough because she cant do it. My best friend thinks so and has told me many times. His comment is always the same. I dont know why you stress Marty. She is never going to pull that trigger and neither are you so stop complaining to me about this. He continues on, what is today Wednesday? youll be back together by saturday. Do you want to make plans to go to dinner and the movies? Then I always say F**K You! But then he listens to me as usual.
In fact my wife has always wanted some space, so what better time than when you sell a house (escrow closed on Dec. 19,2005) In fact she was looking for a place for both of us two weeks before close. Then I guess from what she told me, durring the same day it switched to just her. Go figure.
I might add that as my boys were learning to speak I taught them the following lines:
I ask my boys to say tell me "what the mind of a man" and they will repeat:
What the mind of a man can concieve and believe, he can achieve with a positive mental attitude.
I ask them: What kind of attitude do you have? They Say, "A positive mental attitude." And I ask how do we keep a positive mental attitude. And they say "with smiles and goals" And I ask, "Who is going to help you learn how to write your goals?" and they say "You are". I ask to see thier smiles and they show me huge smiles.
I then ask them to tell me about winners. They say "winners never quit, and a quiter never win" And I ask them, what are you? They reply "A winner". Sometimes I ask them to scream it real loud. (My wife hears this and knows what is going on)
I say to them how much does daddy love you? They hold thier arms out as wide as they can and I say "well that does not come close but its close enough"
I make them stand infront of the mirror and say how much they like themselves and give themselves big smiles. and finally I ask them who are MY heros? They say I am and mommy is. And I repeat thats right I only have 3 heros in my life.
Well you get the point and I'll get off of my soap box. But what am I to do. I live by these statements, my kids live by these statements and if they dont now, one day they will know what they mean. And when they are old enough, they will judge me by these same statemnts. How can I leave this marriage. I often think about what I have done by teaching my boys these words. Do these words impact my wife's decisions? She knows them too. She has lived with me for 13 years and has heard the boys repeat these words for over 3 years.
I have often spoke about the mistake I may have made in teaching the boys these lines with her. Because now I HAVE to act with them in mind, otherwise they mean nothing and I will be a fraud. Worse yet, when a father or mother teaches thier child something of true character and the parent does not act with those principles. Is it not worse for the child? I think so.
If I heard half of the things your wife has said to you from my wife, there is no way I could stay. And the other OM, not a chance. Infact I truly believe that if either one of us dated or has OW/OM. Tthat would put an end to this marriage and very fast. Are you blind or am I? Are you truly in a difficult situation, and yet your C says you have 80% chance of pulling it together? Then what does that say for mine?
Of all the times I saw the words "I am hurting please respond' and you got nothing.
I say this to you (one word): Winner!
Marty
My C once asked my why I dont or cant give myself permission to give up. I had no answer but I thought about those words.
But then he listens to me as usual. 
