In any case, she needs to get a job. A separation would force that issue as well.
Please consider taking my list along to the counselor and see what he thinks.
No matter what you do, you will certainly have to do something. Otherwise, she will consume you.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
The steps you suggested may not be all that extreme. It’s just that I’m not mentally prepared to make a break with W. I may get there as the Honey/Bube plan comes to fruition, but I’m not there now.
But really, thank you for your help. I suspect that what you may be absolutely correct. It’s just that I’m not prepared to hear it right now. Loyalty, self-sacrifice, honor, duty, and perseverance may not be virtues when carried to unhealthy extremes, but they are all deeply ingrained into who I am – or at least how I perceive myself. I believe that all of those are intertwined in how I feel and how I react to this sitch. I’m just having a hard time accepting that I need to do something that seems (to me) to be contrary to those things that I hold so dear. I may be wrong in thinking that the actions you recommend are contrary to those precepts, but that’s how I see it from where I am right now.
I may be wrong about this too, but I firmly believe that forced to choose between me and the dogs, W would choose the dogs. I also firmly believe that she would see moving out, or even threatening to move out as abandonment and breaking of trust. Rather than spurring her to do something to fix the R, I think it would cause her to write it off. I may be wrong, but that’s what my gut is telling me.
I will talk to the C about your suggestions though. If he agrees, maybe he can help me over the obstacles I’m throwing into my own path.
The sad thing about your situation to me is that because you are dealing with NPD there is a real possibility that NOTHING you do will have an affect on your W to actually do something about the situation, to improve it.....whether that be you getting rid of the dogs, or moving out (whether that's you or her moving). Narcissists are wrapped up in me, me, me, me, me. Remember...Narcassis is the one who fell in love with his own reflection.
What I hear you saying, is something I've heard some of the abused ladies I've known say. "I know I need to do xyz...but I'm just not ready to do that YET." They know at some point they will get there, but they aren't there yet. I've been there myself, at some point you simply do reach your breaking point and are ready to take action. Zbube, that's ok. It does take mental preparation to do tough things, sometimes there can be a catalyst to speed things up....but IMPO when you are battling with some of the things you hold dear...loyalty, duty, honor etc...it can make things more difficult when it comes to becoming mentally prepared to take those tough steps.
I'm sure it's tough to hear what some of us have to say on here about your sitch. Unfortunately though sometimes we have to do things we don't want to do, things that are tough, to protect ourselves and those we love (your daughters). Talk to your C though, see what he has to say...tell him what you're thinking and see what his suggestions are.
Bube, I know what you mean about those virtues of yours...after all, MrH has them in spades too. He would do the same thing in your situation, I'm sure.
Let me ask you this: What about loyalty to your daughters? What about honoring them? For that matter, what about loyalty to yourself? God certainly did not put me on this earth to make myself prostrate to another person--only to Him. Are you truly living a Godly life, by kowtowing to her every wish/mood/whim?
One more question: When (not if) you begin implementing the H-Bube plan, what do you think W will do?
How about my daughters? I could write a whole dissertation on that one, but I’ll just cut to the chase. D17 and D20 have all but cut off communication with W, and W has all but cut off communication with them. They’re rarely home anymore and when they are, they aren’t around her. I have a good R with both of them, but they seem to have written W off. D14 can’t drive and is therefore a little more dependent upon us, but she avoids W as well. My R with her is good too. D14 has problems of her own and I honestly believe that it’s better for her to maintain the status quo than to disrupt what home life we have. It’s a long story.
Am I truly living a Godly life…? I don’t know. I wish I could answer that; it’s something I really struggle with. You know my religious beliefs and you know how strongly they influence my behavior. But there is always the question of what happens when good qualities are carried to unhealthy extremes. It was clearly not Godly for MrHP to devote himself so entirely to religious activities that he was damaging his familial relationships. So am I damaging mine as well? I just don’t know.
What will W do? How will she react? That’s another question mark. If I confront her, she’ll respond with anger – no question. She’ll also refuse to budge. But if I just continue to disengage and try to stop providing the narcissistic supply, I’m in unexplored territory and really don’t know what she’ll do. My guess is that she’ll just retreat even further into her dogs and her rescue group where she is getting supplied. But that’s nothing more than a WAG.
Karen,
I don’t foresee W ever leaving me. Stranger things have happened, but I just don’t see it. When we split before, the biggest issue to her was that I left. She had less of a problem with OW than she did with the fact that I left her. She’s very big on M being forever - for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, and so on and so forth. It apparently doesn’t matter if you actually participate in the M, you just have to be there. But then again, I’m basing that on me leaving. I can see the NPD saying, “How dare you leave ME?!?”
In any case, were I to leave or were she to leave, I can absolutely, positively, unequivocally, one hundred percent guarantee you that none of it would be her fault. No outside party would ever hear about the problems, only that I abandoned her or that I made such impossible demands on her or made her life so miserable that the M became untenable. She denied any culpability last time, and I have no doubt that she would again. If she were to leave and some legal authority were to press her for details about what I did to make her leave, I’m sure she would come up with a twisted version of the truth in which I was somehow abusive. She already accuses me of being mean to the dogs when I do something as innocuous as say something negative about them or their behavior. I’m sure she would come up with some twisted perspective on how I was mentally and emotionally abusive to her. I suspect that the A would come up and that the other times she accused me of having A’s would somehow morph into reality.
ZBube...you mean to say you have daughters that are so hurt by her that they don't even want to be around her? That is huge. That is terrible! Doesn't your wife even care about that?
It seems to me you hold the ball in this court. Your children don't like their own mother. And your wife don't and won't work?? Then if you left her and she had to deal with things by herself for awhile maybe it would be the wake up callo she needs. When you have a mental disorder sometimes you just need a huge huge kick in the rear to see things a little more clearly. So let her try to support herself for awhile. Let her find a job and have to pay child support to you because you will have custody of the children it seems. It sounds to me like this woman needs a good kick in the rear right now.
Maybe she just knows you are a push over and she can get away with the things she does. I once knew a woman who sounded a lot like your wife does. When she was asked once why she treated her husband the way she did....she responded by saying because I know I can. He will never go anywhere.
I'm anxious to hear what your C said. I have to admit though that I had a disturbed reaction to your post telling us that all of your daughters are disconnected from your W and avoid her.
With each of your posts it seems clearer and clearer to me that you and your daughters would be happier removed from the situation. It seems to me that you are staying for your W who is the cause of a large portion of unhappiness in your household....for you and your daughters. That just seems like a largely misplaced loyalty to me. I'm not saying that to be mean at all. It just appears to me that you are staying more because you gave her your word that you wouldn't leave, not because it's the best/right thing to do....so come hell or high water you aren't going to break that word.
I know you said your W believes M is forever...and sure, ideally it is. I think too that too often people give up and go for a D without really trying. This does not apply to you. I'm not trying to tell you what to do, I'm just giving you my perspective on your sitch. You have given a Hurculean effort towards your M. If you do leave, and your W feels abandoned....you know what, that's her problem. It also doesn't matter if she ever takes accountability if you leave, she most likely won't as someone with NPD. She won't tell others that she contributed to the problems...because she doesn't think she has. You know different.
Yes Ladies, my kids avoid W. But it’s not as bad as you make it sound and I don’t think that splitting up would change anything.
D20 is a full-time college student commuting to a university about fifty miles away and is working 25-30 hours per week in the District Attorney’s office as well. Mix in a boyfriend and a social life and we almost never see her anyway. Would a separation from W change any of this? No, it wouldn’t.
D17 (18 next month) is a senior in high school. She’s in band, a percussion ensemble, theater, volunteers at the local library, and is active in the church youth group. In addition to that, she has a boyfriend who has spinal muscular atrophy and has been in a wheelchair since the second grade. He doesn’t drive, so she spends a lot of her time over at his house. She works summers in the DA’s office as well. She’ll be moving to Lubbock and Texas Tech in the fall (pharmacy school). Would separating from W change any of this? Again, no.
D14 is the one adopted from Romania. Besides having developmental problems and ADD, she also has abandonment issues. There’s a lot going on there that I really don’t want to go into here. Just be aware that the C has told me that unless W is abusing her, it would be better to keep the family together. We have had many long talks about her future and I’m in agreement with the C on this one. If you remember, he told me that I would leave when D14 left home. I argued with him, but he just gave me a knowing look. You would have to be there to understand the dynamics, but I took it to mean that I should stay until then after which I should leave. We’ll revisit that next week.
Cally, I can see where you would think that about the wakeup call, but remember, we’ve been down this road before. W can work, is an excellent employee and has been very successful at every job she’s ever had. But being forced to work wouldn’t be a wakeup call. It wasn’t when I divorced her. She just feels unfairly put upon. You know, after all these years of being the perfect wife, this is how I get treated: tossed aside like a worn out pair of shoes and left to fend for myself. Just remember, she has NPD. Nothing is ever her fault. She never contributes to any of the problems. The only thing she would wake up to is how undeserving of her I have been.
GEL, I stay not just to keep my word, but because for some unfathomable reason I really do love her. That’s what makes all of this so hard. If I didn’t love her, it would be so much easier to admit that the R is probably doing me more harm than good. It would be much easier to recognize that you only go around once and that it really should be better than this. It would be easier to just cut my losses and run. But I love her. I stay because I said I would, because I feel like it’s the right thing to do, because I’m scared of leaving, because of inertia, because, because, because… But also because I love her.
Maybe the C is right. Maybe I will leave once the girls are all gone. But all I know for sure is that I’m not prepared to do it now.
I do understand what you are saying...but do you realize that we are going off of what you write? You say it's not as bad as we make it seem...we're only interpereting what you write.
Now, like I've said...I'm not telling you what to do, merely giving you observations. I understand you love your W. I know this isn't necessarily an easy thing to do...it's often hard to quantify why you love someone, but would you be able to give us some of the things you do love about her? I'm not saying you don't love her, don't think that...but I do find that sometimes people do things out of habit "I've always loved him/her"....or that they confuse attachment & habit with love.
I can tell you aren't ready to take the step to get out....and I'm not pushing you to do that, just trying to help you get some clarity....in whichever direction it goes.
